4500 capacity killboxes are obnoxious and not fun
Now you might be tempted to say "Get better" or "Use this meta shield item and pick your targets slowly"
But lets face it honestly, there's only so much I can do with 3 bullets and 20 enemies surrounded by infinite grapples and napalm flamethrower hidden above and between lava nodes.
I think the main issue comes from the "Infinity" or those 4 items.
Grapples, flamethrower, and enemies essentially have no ways of being shut down other than "Waste a bullet on it, or go smash it with a sword", which ultimately lets you destroy one, and then get killed by the 3 others.
I spent a little over 5 hours on the game since playstation+ free deal, and I think 3 of those hours have been spent stuck at the entrance of a kill box only to die to a stray off-screen/ off-angle bullet.
The amount of good raids with fun twist and experiences compared to the sheer amount of sitting in a copy-cat kill box is off the chart and definitely needs adjustement.
Or maybe I'm just bad and need to go play other things. *Shrug*
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I don't think there is a best way to combat the chaos kill box or tower-defense-lava-pit meta without overpowering the raiders. So the only thing we player can do is upgrade our weapons and ... i hate saying it but get gud (aka memorizing the trap trigger times and detection ranges).
Personally the lost of ranking hurts the game because there are some bases where its impossible to beat without dying at least 10 times or so you know at the locations and sequence of the traps. Especially in chaos rooms where everything is going off at once.
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They can be ridiculous, but there are a few things to consider.
- There is a shield item, as you pointed out. It's quite good and lets you get into position and take your time...at least for a moment.
- The other primary weapon has something like 7 shots, but don't forget to take advantage of the magnetic retrieval of the default primary. If upgraded, it has a pretty good range (maybe a block and a half?) and you can often recover shots by going outside the base and getting near the blocks where you shot.
- I find there is almost always a "method to the madness". A lot of rooms fall apart with a well placed nade or a little patience. Claws can be ignored if you kill the traps that they are pulling you towards (or in LoS). They can be beneficial this way as they pull you out of the way of other traps and won't drop you until you swipe at them.
- Some maps are simply easier with co-op...as easy as going outside and touching dirt. Whereas some are just damn hard playing solo. If you give up, while you may not get gen-mat, you at least get your parts.
- There is a points system to the cost of the traps. The more squares they overlap/cover as a killzone the more expensive they are. This helps reduce it to some degree, but if you are playing on brutal, +4500 pts is a lot to play with for base design.
Don't get me wrong, I despise them too, whether because they are too difficult or simply because I see players that do this as "one-trick ponies" - they don't know how to actually trick players and this is the easy way for them to get gen-mat. I don't give accolades to these designs, or those that block off the tombs. If you have variety AND a killbox, I give a player accolades.
Final thought, I would like to see the cost of traps increase the more you have of the same type within a certain radius. This would reduce scenarios where players spam one type of trap or mob for lack of doing anything creative.
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i really really shouldn't be sharing this info but... because i want you to get better...
use light sword, shield, and grenades.
you can speed run bolt launchers with deflect.
you can avoid bombs, spikes, bolts, melee attacks and acid pits with shields.
melee the grabbers to break them.
check bedrock stones to see if they're fake - or just avoid them.
every single guard in the game can be countered by press both weapon buttons at the same time.
when afraid or overwhelmed and you dont know what to do use a grenade. you can shield the explosion if it bounces back.
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I love a good killbox, love to pick it apart and find a weakness. Every one has one. Haven't encountered an outpost I couldn't break completely piece-by-piece. That's the fun in it - in overcoming
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I have only come across one level I can't beat by just taking my time. A level 10 Outpost, this guy built a large cage with only a single block entrance, and the entirety of the inside of the structure is just Plasma turrets.
That's it, nothing else, just Plasma turrets. Dozens of them. You can see 35 of them from the door, and I'm sure there's more than that.
And he's got it set up that you can't access the genmat or any of the tombs directly, and there's nothing you can use to block the shots from the turrets, and the shield only protects you for so long.
There are definitely people out there who are, in my opinion, going against the intent of the game and just aiming for cheese, but most of the time, if you take your time, you can beat those levels anyway.
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As someone, who likes to have some undemanding fun, I definitely can relate.
As far, as those kill boxes are in principle beatable (even if it takes 10-15-25 deaths to beat) there isn't too much we can do. Me, personally, when I get this kind of meta-lava-box-youtube-brew of an outpost - I just quit the raid, and put the dungeon constructor into the blacklist - to not take raids on his creations in the future.
And do not get me wrong - I can appreciate a good trap and creative level design, and never get short on accolades to people who got me dead fair and square - but I do not think I should waste time and effort on some over-9000 iteration of the meta from youtube tutorials.
Post edited by Ilya_Lizard on2 -
Try the crossbow, it destroys mobs. Double gun is actually busted.
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only 5 hours? yes i would expect you to have issues, thats ok. at least you didnt claim they were impossible like others might have
i also think its fine to think said maps are unfun and obnoxious and i would have to agree. i have over 100 hours in MYM from the beta and live combined and there are a few map designs i see over and over that arnt really that effective but just take a while to beat, and if you have beaten a map once its dull to do it over and over
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Maybe a way to retrieve spent ammo from a distance would help make dense killbox rooms easier to deal with. Give it some mega cooldown and long cast time so players wont really use it in regular maps, but if they have the patience then they can use it for a cheesy killbox.
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This needs to be said more: Just Leave.
I came across a killbox where the walls were literally just plasma shooters. It would have taken forever to destroy piece by piece so I just went next. The builder got nothing out of me and the game tracks that. I'll also just leave and go next when people make it so if you shoot a bad guy they fall down into corrosive cubes and you cannot retrieve your ammo. Low effort bases get the "go next" strategy too. I really don't care about losing 30 pointless ranked points for leaving a base and neither should anyone else.
As a result, all the bases I've been raiding have been really fun and creative. :)
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personally if killboxes were not a thing i would already be bored by the game there are not many ways how you can hide a trap and i really like whats going on right now as a builder i try to make my map impossible and as raider i look closely to weaknesses in the enemy base and try to beat it
the thing is if you want a challenge thats what hard is for if you dont want to be challenged just use easy or normal
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What is "fun" is very subjective. Killboxes surely have their audience. As everyone says: you can just leave with no penalty.
Also there is nothing bad in placing guards over corrosive cubes. I build my bases so that a raider has to adapt their playstyle to it. Placing guards over a corrosive cubes forces players who would just like to snipe everything from a safe position to come closer to melee range.
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As long as you can just leave if you dont like the base, I dont mind it. Only thing I find annoying about it is that half of all bases are starting looking like that lol.
But its still a playstyle and its nice to have more of them, if every raid was the same it would be boring fast
Post edited by ShinobuSK on0 -
Coming back to this thread after a solid 40 account levels later ;
I learned how to deal with most of that.
I also learned you can Reroll outposts if you saw that they were flat out bad killboxes, so you can just leave and try something else.
Shield and sword is very fun.
I stand by what I said ; 7/10 builders have the creativity level of a 2 years old, the 3 others are cool.
Dead man guard spam and flamethrower wedge glitch users are still garbage.
All in all, as many suggested above ; Learn to leave if something is bad.
You don't need to torture yourself or complete the garbage. Just reroll it (:
/thread End.
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If there are no pistons, speed determines the winner.
Find the exit, grapple towards it. If you jump out of a grapple and don't move you can conserve the speed, giving you time to launch another grapple.
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I'm pretty sure I've played this one (or something similar). Long narrow hallway of corrosive cubes, into a giant open room with 51 Sentinel eyes for walls, ceiling, and floors, and extended sight, all of which have AoE. Honestly, if not for the AoE, I wouldn't mind these because it'd be fun to try and dodge them all, even if I die a bunch, but when all it takes is 3 of those AoEs to block off half of the room, when the others go off, you're dead.
I still think this wouldn't be so bad if the AoE was 1) smaller (cause 2 radius is crazy big) or 2) if they actually did damage to anything but the raider, as it doesn't affect any other trap.
I agree with people though, once you find out a base is one of these, just leave and block the person. Staying there to give them free kills just gives them the impression they're doing a good job and isn't helping the game as a whole.
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So far in my experience 9 times out of 10 the solution is grenades on the path to clear any blocking pistons/any key traps to create a safe zone. Don't try and clear it just zip by, there is no clearing these types. Lastly the shield consumable can give you time to assess your situation when you get there and to prevent any traps you may have missed. Typically all the points on the base have went into that one room and any remaining traps are easy.
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and by "fun and creative" you mean extremely easy to beat
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TL;DR - ITT - OP "Killboxes are boring and unfun, don't say get good"
*spongebob narrator* "Fourty Levels Later"
OP - "Nevermind, this isn't an issue, I got good."
<3 love to see it
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Going to have to agree about plasma spam.
I like puzzles
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plasma SENTINELS not so bad, plasma CLOUD omfg kill me.
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Wrong quote, don't put words in my mouth <3
I learned to deal with grapples trap and got better at the game, but my points still stand.
Infinite ammo traps are causing issues to a certain extent, especially in brutal where you can spam 15 of them together like a braindead monkey, but if they're here to stay, you can always just leave garbo-land and reroll it and do something more to your tastes.
By "I learned to deal with that" I meant and it's written just one line below; I found out that you can leave garbage and reroll it. My entire brutal feed is no longer filled with boxes and i can actually play now.
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This outpost was brutal! The killbox insane but after the 50th death (I think?), I realize this killbox wanted you to rush it. It didnt have pistons just plasmas, hornets and bombers from hell. That said though, after playing for a bit, a well designed killbox is brutal but a KB that is thrown to together is actually pretty easy to figure out or rush through even with pistons.
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That... must have taken you at least an hour. And you got 300 synthite for it...
I wouldn't have the patience.
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yeah, he also got better. but you know... you wouldn't have the patience.
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great work! always feels amazing to conquer a tough challenge and get that skill up :) keep crushing it like a boss, that dungeon won't be a problem for you in the future.
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An hour for no rewards, in a game where you need to grind thousands of synthite per day to keep your outposts active... hmm...
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you don't find learning or getting better at the game rewarding got it. have a great life and good luck with all your negativity :)
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Yea, I nearly abandon the outpost. It actually took about 2 days only cause I left the post, did other things, bought more consumables and upgrades then came back...also I only lost like 30 (maybe, 40?) points in ranking.
I kept at it because I figured, 1 - the builder did not use any cheats or exploits (I quit and report those in a heart beat, regardless of how fun they start off) and 2 - if I build killboxes it is only fair that I play them too. I can probably learn something and honestly after playing lots of the them I have learned the following:
- there are KBs that require you to learn the timing. these ones are the kinds of KBs you have to speedrun through and feel like it's all up to luck, especially if you are playing solo. Many of these feel thrown together.
- there are KBs that force strategy. These are few and far between. You may still need to speedrun the box but it does force some strategic grenade throws and trap destructions. The above outpost used the warmongers as a wall to block chokepoints and forced me back into a barrage of grenades or flames.
- lastly there are some killboxes that rely on a couple of traps. They look hard but once you shoot down these traps the KB is harmless. Other times you can simply just walk, not zipline, past everything.
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