Improvement to prevent unbeatable levels
I'd like to suggest that players need to play suceccfully their own level before they can make it life.
That would stop unbeatable deathtraps where you just take about 20 guards with dead man's switch, make a long path with corrosive cubes all around the path, let the guards drop in the cubes as soon as the GemMats are picked up and use that to bomb the whole way into extinction.
Sure you can use a coop player which waits outside and resurrects you after everything is blown up, but that's not a possible solution to every player.
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In your example, I don't see a problem, but what you mean by it would be a very good solution for very difficult levels. With your example, you can take the Phoenix and wait for the first wave, and in most cases, you've already beaten the level. However, in my opinion, there are already levels that are simply a big room with too many objects. They're essentially just placed stupidly and will kill someone easily. And I find that simply brazen and should be stopped by what you mean.
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Maybe have it so the player needs to beat their own level for it to go live. They did this with Hitman's contract system to prevent exactly this.
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I'm in favor of making the content creator successfully beat their own dungeon before it goes live. If you know where each and every single guard and trap is and you still can't beat your own level then it's broken.
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Or. You could just… shield the initial blast? Or wait in the genmat spawn? Or (and this is my favorite) shoot the closest corpse away from you.
Edit
OH OH! Orrr you could phoenix res or mag barrier
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maybe i'm just not running into these "unbeatable" levels. I've had everything from corpse drops to glitch traps to kill spheres and boxes. nothing is unbeatable. where are these mythical unbeatable raids? i want one.
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Nothing is unbeatable SOLO not to mention in group... Raiders are stronger than builders and thats how it should be.
Making builders beat their level will not improve your understanding of the game...
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As was pointed out by the devs, this would be insanely tedious. Every time you make any alteration to your outpost, you would need to rerun it and beat it again. Even if you're only changing one block somewhere because you didn't like the way it was facing or something.
Also, not everyone is equally skilled. Some people might not be great at raiding, but that doesn't mean they don't deserve to be able to make challenging outposts for others who are capable.
I think it really needs to be a community driven change. If you see a blatant killbox, just instantly abandon and block the user. Their kill ratio will decrease and they'll get fewer raiders in the long run. They could even adjust the rewards for the bonus 'death' that is awarded when players abandon. For example, it only awards half the genmat, or doesn't contribute to kill ratio or something, or maybe it only applies if you abandon anywhere but the starting zone.
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They might not be 'unbeatable', but they're certainly not fun, and I don't want to spend 30 minutes and 30 deaths through trial and error trying to figure out each of the 99 traps they've placed into the single large room they've built using minimum effort, or reward that build style.
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it actually only rewards the base builder a certain number of times. after a while it becomes a waste of their time also. so really... you have nothing to lose but time. and if you're willing to prove that a base can be beaten then it will make the builder consider changing it. which means it might convince them to do something more fun. since accolades become more beneficial.
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These aren't things that cross my mind as a builder.
I want my base to be beatable, so that raiders stick around long enough to feed me multiple deaths. Deaths are the only valid metric. If my base is being abandoned, it's a clear sign it's too difficult and I need to redesign it so players are encouraged to press on instead of quitting because it seems impossible.
The sweet spot is a base that looks easier than it is and results in multiple deaths per run, and a killbox inevitably looks impossible.
and if you're willing to prove that a base can be beaten then it will make the builder consider changing it.
Proving that a killbox is beatable is just going to make them double down and build it even more 'unbeatable'.
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Here is a poll about the same thing.
So far more folks prefer not to have the builder beat their own levels.
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Has been suggested since at least the beta.
No comment from the devs so far AFAIK.
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There's no Killbox user that would actively remove or change their kill box after gaining 40 deaths on it from some stubborn guy who wanted to prove them wrong.
If anything they'll laugh at the pretty death number when they login.
The killbox user doesn't lose time. He only needs to build it once.
The raider is the only one losing their time.
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I see the point of beating your own level before publishing. But I would go so far and say that it would tremendously diminish the amount of big, complex and super difficult levels published.
We know how time consuming designing and building a level is and then asking the architects to sucessfully raid their own contraptions could be too much.
MYM is living or dying from the content that others create and it needs a constant flow at that.
Also, I've almost never raided an Outpost that was strictly unbeatable in my 20+ hours of game time. The game offers you all the different options to beat and outlast these traps. To this point I still do not see the issue.
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you don't get anything if you kill someone more than a couple times. there's a system in place to stop players from "feeding" currency, xp, and death counts. because it wouldn't be fair to the rest of the community if a player just made 2 accounts and only played bases he or she owned. giving him or herself several hundred deaths.
there's also a level gap deficiency curve to prevent low levels from feeding high levels. you have to beat up the people you're meant to prey on.
maybe that's why so many players (builders and raiders) are complaining about currency and prestige. new players think they have plot armor and high level players aren't doing high level bases 🤷🏻♂️.
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Oh no I'm aware of that, I was just implying that it would be silly to think that someone would erase their kill box after seeing that it killed 30+ people.
It's satisfying to know that your garbage pissed off a lot of players and you have the number to prove it on the stat screen.
And as you said, game is fairly new, people don't know how everything works so they just copy what they died to and die to the most basic stuff
kill boxes are here to stay, sadly.
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This has been suggested a lot, and a dev addressed it in a Reddit AMA: https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/12cszga/comment/jf39myf/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
The dev is correct: you don't have to beat the base. You can leave without collecting the GenMat and then after having attempted the base even just once you can Abandon the base from your Command Center.
Builders don't need to be able to beat their own Outpost, but Raiders shouldn't be punished if they can't beat it, either. What the devs need to do is make it so players don't lose Rank points, because as is dying a few times and/or abandoning a raid absolutely punishes Raiders when it comes to their Rank. Going backwards in Rank is not okay in a game like this.
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I get not punishing raiders for persisting but on abandoning raids that should be slightly punished. Now if the person died a lot or took a lot of time before they abandoned then the punishment is less severe.
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that should be slightly punished
I thought that too at first, but after a I played more I changed my mind. Punishing players discourages behavior that MYM should be encouraging. BHVR trying to treat this like a competitive game will hurt it. Neither Builders nor Raiders should lose rank points. Builders should feel encouraged to build fun levels that get Accolades, and Raiders should feel encouraged to challenge themselves. Any loss of rank points discourages attempting harder Outposts. I myself pretty much exclusively stick to Normal because I'm trying to avoid dying to avoid my Rank going down. That sucks for the Builders, who are getting a Raider who probably doesn't die once, because the Builders do lose rank points for that. I should be encouraged to go to an Outpost where I'll die, and I shouldn't have to die a certain number of times to be punished less. Leaving an Outpost without stealing the GenMat should just award zero rank points.
Anyway, this thread is about some players wanting Builders to have to beat their own level. I don't think they should need to, but that means Raiders shouldn't be punished if they can't complete it, either. That's fair.
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There are no unbeatable outposts with the current system. Git Gud.
But, I also have nothing against people needing to complete their outpost before publishing it. There is not a single map, that I have not completed. Even my own.
Post edited by TehoKone on0 -
It’s actually sort of disturbing finding out a base is super easy to beat in a particular way after having died to it several times trying a different way.
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