Lazy Raiding killing the game.

i predicted this would happen when they removed penalty. a bunch of 1 death quitter. block your tombs with 2nd wave holo blocks, costs max 45 and forces them to complete to get loot.

man threw his phoenix pod down, and instead of respawning when he died, he quit. another guy ran the map no deaths in a minute, props to him.

but this game is populated with people who are targeting free xp maps over art and challenges, they argued that 2nd wave corrosive was too hard until it was removed while they freely pull ammo through solid objects and shoot at guards that can't walk to them because of map boundaries like thats okay and they say "build better" but if we tell them "get good" we're exploiting garbage. the double standard pisses me off honestly. but here you have exactly what we said you'd see. people either winning immediately, or quitting. no desire to overcome challenge. and yes, those are XP maps designed to make people stop running them that you see in my list.

were your quitters at 1 death?

Patch has been only out for a couple of days. Give it time. Old habits die hard.

Also, it could still be just a crash, because the games performance hasn´t really improved since release.

On the other hand, as you're no longer penalised for dying more than 2 times, there's fewer reasons to abandon a raid after 1 or 2 deaths.

Also, does your 'lazy raiding' definition also apply to those who abandon maze outposts? People find different things, and different outpost formats 'fun'.

For example, I came across one outpost which was just an endless spiralling hallway, it took about 5 minutes just to reach the end, which was a room full of guards. After one death, I couldn't be bothered to repeat that 20 mile trek all over again. Maybe you would have found that fun, but I didn't.

So for me, at top out, I will make an assessment of effort required to win versus the gain.

If I have spent 10 active minutes and 3 deaths and havent even caught site of the gen mat (and die again) I am likely gonna bounce.

Not all outpost are built for players like me, so I leave my two accolades and be on my way.

As a builder, unless you are going go build your outpost with a solution in mind for all player types, some are going to 'tap out' on your build (sometimes even without trying).

The blocking holo cubes over tombs are likely to get you (stupidly) blocked, because of the high levels of raider 'entitlement' to tombs (though I find the idea of post gen mat access to tombs to be a great idea overall).

How is a raider coming in, not being able to access tombs, then leaving and a raider coming in, looting tombs, then leaving: any different? They gain and you dont?

Being spiteful about raiders who dont want to raid your build sounds kinda toxic.

In my opinion, Builders need to build to the interest of the raiders. They will always hold the keys to a build's success story.

If you build a killbox ans the raider deosnt want. speend run high adrenaline experience, they are gonnaa leave.

If you build an stroll through easy base, speed runner pro are gonna blaze through, 0 death, and not leave commends.

If you build a time sink maze, soem are gonna leave after 15 mintues of boredom and leave no accolades for wasting their time.

The point is, you cant please them all.

We need more raiders of all different types, period.

I think these 'builder only' players or dragging down the game by soaking up raids and not giving any back.

The number of raiders need to be equal to or greater than the number of builders. The solution is not punishing the dud raiders (effevtively punishing all raiders), but instead actively encouraging everyone to raid more.

Cheesy meta and spiteful oupost builds arent gonna do that. Be better than that.

Lol. So going in and abandoning is still 1 death for the builder. With lowered prestige requimentsenoigh of those could carry an outpost to p10.

If you are alt+f4-ing it, builders can just block you. It right there in the screen under 'view profile' for the raider.

Perhaps just blocking these 'builder only, tomb hunter, alt +f4' players may be the way to go. It will shrink their radier pool for thier builds (the are so single mindedly dedicated too) and their build pool (for tomb hunting).

Soon these specific types of 'build only, tomb hunter, alt+ f4" player could be tomb hunting each. other and know what it is like to have a raider not give a care about the outpost you spent time and effort to create. Lol.

Most fitting, I think.

I recommend trying not be a selfish 'builder only' and give out a few legit raids daily. In my opinion it is very hypocritical and elitist to be like 'Legit raid my oupost, but I will never legit raid yours'

Sad that it may come to blocking people for this behavior. I usually disagree with 'cancel' culture; this game seems to have it ingrained into it though.

i do indeed do balance testing for many things. i break game economies as well. a few friends and i have a support ticket filed currently to removed a bug that lets flames go through solid objects, multiple floors/walls. i will give no further detail as i don't want this becoming common knowledge, it's game breaking with 0 counter play. i care a lot about fairness but i also care a lot more about rewarding people who put in effort and i've seen this game as a die to learn situation. i don't think that preforming poorly should be punished, but i think that once you made a conscious decision to be somewhere that quitting shouldn't be free. you could die once and quit, die five times and quit, or die 3 times and get genmat and get out, and it's all the same reward as far as rank is concerned. so theres no ranking reward to pushing yourself. this promoted a situation of people quitting which doesn't reward builders, doesn't help raiders grow. sure it may feel good to be able to just go in and quit, but we were given an extremely inexpensive boost from the suit advisor to gather information BEFORE we go in. so we can get information, go in, and then still decide not to play with no consequences. it feels like being treated like a child. do we really need bumpers on our bowling lane?

there are tons of large maps in normal, including mine. i have the game on SSD so my load times are minimal. and i scout maps with open bedrock on the picture. in and out in about 90 seconds. average of 100(80-120) of both parts and synthite each time for all 3 tombs, down to about 70 if you get 2. the thing about this is that it has minimal risk, and minimal frustration. it's like going mining for ore in the mountains and getting mosquitos after you compared to going into the den of 3-4 bears to do it.

i'd have to go into the den 25 times to level chimera and get 250 synthite going into normals. some of the maps i scout also have open genmat or a exposed fight map, i take it in that situation on the way out. but why waste the time going into an outpost and checking every angle or risking death or consumables? there is literally nothing to keep you in the map once you have that loot, trap loot is minimal, trap exp isn't important.

feel free to block me. that's your loss. i'm one of the people actually raiding the brutal bases. I also make some of the harder content, but if challenges scare you i understand. the conversation isn't about prestige, it's about the fact that it costs synthite to keep the map alive and 1 death won't give you enough to do it. so i've taught others how who don't get enough deaths in their outpost because of the lack of punishment for quitting how to go get synthite at minimal risk. the tomb only hunters are countered by 2nd wave holo blocks on the tombs for 45 points on large maps, don't wanna get hunted, cover them up with completion required, be warned if you do that people are gonna block you for not giving them free tombs so enjoy having YOUR raider and outpost pool reduced for denying it. what you fail to understand is that the majority of the players in normal are these people. i've got the metrics. in the last several days including before the matchmaking update i've consistently seen 80%+ of all raids that i receive ignore art or challenge builds in favor of XP maps. raiders never cared about builders, they said that builders were all exploiters wile pulling ammo through solid objects, dragging guards to the map edge and killing them from outside their allowed pathing, reviving players through walls, grenading traps through walls.

the tomb hunting is a direct result of low raid count, and removal of punishment for quitting. there is no incentive to do the outpost because you keep your loot on quit. getting the genmat will almost always take longer and give you less resource for time spent given the current setup.

Hopefully, builders seeing this in replays will holo block the tombs as meta so people stop loot hunting and start running outposts.

i also grind out the raids. i enjoy overcoming challenges. but we aren't seeing hard content in live we're seeing tedious content. single door rooms with a mountain of stall where 90% of the raid is spent going in and out of a single door. as a result people stopped playing in brutal so all the actually good hard builds didn't get played, so we stopped putting them in live and took them to social instead. i also think blocking over a base is the wrong way to handle things especially when given the option to remove it from your list in other ways. i had bases that were self sufficient, didn't need to raid but i do because as you said, it helps with health of game, i do co-ops to help people struggling, to show them that anything can be done, i put in my time trying to clear the hardest bases because they're normally on overdrive i'd assume and my completion of them removes the harder maps from the queue for players who may not have as easy a time with it but want to try the bracket (this is where the comment about stall rooms comes from)

skirting the raids takes less effort than checking corners in a base, and rewards supplies at a faster rate at the cost of genmat progression. but once you've capped out on things that really isn't a draw. it becomes about efficiency of time.

this may not be the gameplay i want, but it's the gameplay promoted by the current setup, easy, low risk, time efficient resource farming that rewards me. the game doesn't care that this will hurt the builder because it makes the raider happy. i straight don't build art builds anymore for normal because they don't get played. all my efforts now go to making troll XP maps that are designed to be as unpleasant as i can to encourage people to play actual maps instead. i holo block my tombs to prevent tomb hunting, i have for ages because i've already seen this behavior BEFORE the penalty was removed. and guess what, you still get abandoned and blocked for that.

Does it?

I've finish raids where the tombs have given as little as 10, or even zero synthite.

Add on the 125 from completing 3 Champions, and I'm pretty sure it's more profitable to just finish the raids. Most don't take that long, and 'looking for the tombs' can be just as long-winded.

I've certainly felt no additional incentive to abandon raids unless they were genuinely a pain to attempt.

I can't disagree that an additional loot drop on successful completion would be nice though. Maybe a bonus 25/25/25 across all currencies or something like that. Could even take it out of the 125 Champion prize if necessary and reduce that to 100. After all there's nothing really special about champion bases, P5-10 still show up in the regular pool.

blocking a singular map should have been how blocking worked. instead they made it prevent ALL OTHER MAPS TYPES that person made become unplayable to that player AND stops that builder from being able to raid them, lowering their own raids. that heavy of a block is reserved for the kind of game with real time interaction or when people message and harass after the fact.

i'm just farming resources to cap my currencies and try to find a limit on how many consumables i can have.