Lazy Raiding killing the game.

JumpyBinhead Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 1

I am starting to see a weird trend of what I would call "lazy raiding". Because there is no penalty for aborting a raid, and due to the fact most raid builders like myself leave tombs unguarded to assist players development, raiders are coming in, taking tomb loot, attempting to speed run a raid, and if they cant succeed after 1 ort 2 deaths they leave. I currently have 3 raids on the go 2 dangerous and 1 brutal(I have made 8 in all and I am gold in my raiding, all done solo), all raid attempts recently keep getting mostly 1 or 2 kills per player, and after watching replays, they pretty much always pan out as explained above, take tombs-try raid-leave. On a side note, I dont see my raids as impossible, difficult yes, but not impossible, so no excuse to complete them after you suss the patterns and placements etc. As the person constructing the raid, its pretty annoying after spending hours constructing meaningful and interesting raids...but I am getting almost nothing from this lazy raiding style, and as stated, I see it happening more and more over the last few days. If this behavior continues, it will kill the game imo. Finally, thanks on the updates and fixes, thanks for making an amazing and original game, and thank heavens you stopped that cube hiding traps nonsense. Be safe and be excellent to each other.


  • MadMoeZel
    MadMoeZel Member Posts: 487

    i predicted this would happen when they removed penalty. a bunch of 1 death quitter. block your tombs with 2nd wave holo blocks, costs max 45 and forces them to complete to get loot.

    man threw his phoenix pod down, and instead of respawning when he died, he quit. another guy ran the map no deaths in a minute, props to him.

    but this game is populated with people who are targeting free xp maps over art and challenges, they argued that 2nd wave corrosive was too hard until it was removed while they freely pull ammo through solid objects and shoot at guards that can't walk to them because of map boundaries like thats okay and they say "build better" but if we tell them "get good" we're exploiting garbage. the double standard pisses me off honestly. but here you have exactly what we said you'd see. people either winning immediately, or quitting. no desire to overcome challenge. and yes, those are XP maps designed to make people stop running them that you see in my list.

  • Iron_Cutlass
    Iron_Cutlass Member Posts: 1,777

    "Killing the Game"


    Also from my own experience, sometimes you get DCed from matches because the game cannot sync your data with the servers, and Ive seen people have the same issue I am having. The game is still rather new so they are still ironing out issues.

  • hastarkis
    hastarkis Member, Alpha Surveyor Posts: 573

    Same people was like "I don't care about rank, I just need my synth; maybe I give the base a shot if it looks cool but I leave anyway after couple attempts" even before the update. You can find comments here on forums. I don't know why they think it's better, they spend time loading and searching for tombs to get smth like 20 synth in total and go next... Oh no, I know why, because synth drop is so low (and often get caught in corrosives) that searching for tombs and leaving sometimes are better than searching for tombs and completing the outpost. I recall raids I got ridiculous 30 points even though I destroyed everything (several times). And sometimes it's extremely hard to destroy things bc the outpost was designed to be speedrun.

    Anyway, developing assist is good and all but you can leave your tombs unguarded inside your outposts too. Reward those who play the game and not those who want to farm. And, in general, don't bother with those raiders. They will be there anyway no matter what (along with people who overestimated themselves). Dbd has AFK killers farming rift fragments even though it is extremely unrewarding. But this "unrewarding" part isn't that unrewarding in mym.

    Don't let them [be lazy with you] get tombs without entering the outpost (and make sure it can be understood from thumbnail), support new players by not using anything that can destroy tomb and kill raider at the same time (robbing their resources), and vocalise grind problem. Maybe devs will add good synth bonus for completed outpost, huh. I wish.

  • Nahasno
    Nahasno Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 47

    A few wouldn't be a problem if your outposts get enough raids to offset the "loss".

    There is a difference if you get 40 raids in 24 hours and perhaps 10 quit early while the others play through and die more often than not more than twice. Or the same Outpost gets only 5 raids in 24 hours and 4 quiters.

    Pls don't tell me it's the design because it ran fine with same setup before the update - so it's nothing on my side that reduced the number of raids on this outpost significantly. And those that raid it and don't quit - give accolades even if they die often, so it can't be to bad. And I raid maybe not a lot but i try to do atleast three champion outposts a day for the mats in normal, dangerous and brutal (depends on my mood) - if i have the time i raid even more.

    For me it's not even the "loss" of deaths but the loss of videos - i want to see those outposts played - if they kill good for me, if they don't good for the raider. But i want to see action - if the raiders best some of my designs it's for the better - maybe i find a way to modify my design to be better or more fun - maybe not. Sometimes i get the idea for a whole new maps by just watching the raids on my outpost.

  • Nahasno
    Nahasno Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 47
    edited May 11

    Some at one death some at two deaths some with no death but 3 min video with senselessy jumping around outside the outpost... just getting the tombs and not even trying to go inside.


    I mean it's a medium map in brutal... why join those if you don't even try?

  • Tsulan
    Tsulan Member Posts: 13,957

    Patch has been only out for a couple of days. Give it time. Old habits die hard.

    Also, it could still be just a crash, because the games performance hasn´t really improved since release.

  • MadMoeZel
    MadMoeZel Member Posts: 487

    i've seen ONE player die more than twice outside of social since patch. everyone else quits at 1 or 2, or gets it on the first try. that guy made 5 attempts then quit.

  • Seraphor
    Seraphor Member Posts: 6,650
    edited May 11

    On the other hand, as you're no longer penalised for dying more than 2 times, there's fewer reasons to abandon a raid after 1 or 2 deaths.

    Also, does your 'lazy raiding' definition also apply to those who abandon maze outposts? People find different things, and different outpost formats 'fun'.

    For example, I came across one outpost which was just an endless spiralling hallway, it took about 5 minutes just to reach the end, which was a room full of guards. After one death, I couldn't be bothered to repeat that 20 mile trek all over again. Maybe you would have found that fun, but I didn't.

  • Nahasno
    Nahasno Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 47

    That's interesting i got 5 raids today since login in at 7:30 am and reactivating. Three zero kill walkthroughs (8, 9 and 11min), one died 5 times got genmat in 14min and one quit after 2 death and 2min 5 sek playtime.

    That's all I got in 10 hours time, it's about 17 pm now.I only raided 3 brutals today until now, the last at 14pm.

    Just now there pops one raid in: one death, walkthrough in 3:40min.

    So it's 6 raids over 10 hours activation time where the first 5 where in the first two hours of activation... the same map got at least 4 hightraffic times a day ( at about 7am 12-14pm, 17-21 pm and some latenight flies after midnight befor the update. So in that case a twentyfour hour activation made sense.

    And if it's intended for maps to not stay in the raidingqueue for to long that would make sense - so the map would last about 7-10 days just running through genmat and uprgradeing and then go to social or the bin.

    But now i will only activate those maps if i see a chance to get a traffic window. That's a very big change in the lifetime cycle of maps - they may get kicked out of rotation due to deactivation but the overall time in the queue will be much longer. I don't know if that was intended by the dev's.

  • MythicMikeneto
    MythicMikeneto Member Posts: 52

    So for me, at top out, I will make an assessment of effort required to win versus the gain.

    If I have spent 10 active minutes and 3 deaths and havent even caught site of the gen mat (and die again) I am likely gonna bounce.

    Not all outpost are built for players like me, so I leave my two accolades and be on my way.

    As a builder, unless you are going go build your outpost with a solution in mind for all player types, some are going to 'tap out' on your build (sometimes even without trying).

    The blocking holo cubes over tombs are likely to get you (stupidly) blocked, because of the high levels of raider 'entitlement' to tombs (though I find the idea of post gen mat access to tombs to be a great idea overall).

    How is a raider coming in, not being able to access tombs, then leaving and a raider coming in, looting tombs, then leaving: any different? They gain and you dont?

    Being spiteful about raiders who dont want to raid your build sounds kinda toxic.

    In my opinion, Builders need to build to the interest of the raiders. They will always hold the keys to a build's success story.

    If you build a killbox ans the raider deosnt want. speend run high adrenaline experience, they are gonnaa leave.

    If you build an stroll through easy base, speed runner pro are gonna blaze through, 0 death, and not leave commends.

    If you build a time sink maze, soem are gonna leave after 15 mintues of boredom and leave no accolades for wasting their time.

    The point is, you cant please them all.

    We need more raiders of all different types, period.

    I think these 'builder only' players or dragging down the game by soaking up raids and not giving any back.

    The number of raiders need to be equal to or greater than the number of builders. The solution is not punishing the dud raiders (effevtively punishing all raiders), but instead actively encouraging everyone to raid more.

    Cheesy meta and spiteful oupost builds arent gonna do that. Be better than that.

  • Chordyceps
    Chordyceps Member Posts: 1,406

    If your raiders are leaving after your tombs, don't just give them tombs to them. Integrate it into your base, make them work for it.

  • Nahasno
    Nahasno Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 47

    That's what i do except i find a trap combo or a room where i see a challenge then there can be more than 10 deaths before i ve seen the genmat but i think that's normal behavior for all players nobody wants to waste time all play for fun, however that is defined.

    As i said i have no problem if people leave because they dislike it because of whatever i can't and don't even want to control what they do with their life.

    I have a problem with the reduced number of raids overall in my outposts since the update and i fear it's because now all three outposts between rank 5 and ten i have, have more than enough prestige to rank up repeatitly. But should i if i had the orange upgrade all those to max possible? What do i get out of it except the cost of orange and some EXP ? I just looked the rank 5 has acutally enough prestige for 5 rank ups. I mean do we as builders get anything out of it if our outposts out run the pace?

    My rank 10 runs it's last run and get's what 6 raids in 12 hours? I could activate and deactivate it - but i just set it to overdrive and set it to social when it runs out sad end for a good running outpost.

  • MythicMikeneto
    MythicMikeneto Member Posts: 52

    Early prestige on an outpost gives 10% more gen mat than letting it time down on its own.

    More if you run the gen mat boost (+15%)

    Some testing was done to see it gen mat plays into MMR LB rank (post master rank), inital results says it doesn't. There is a floating theory that 'mastered' outposts boost your MMR in the LB.

    The question should be, do you think you will get more genmat in kills (possibly on overdrive) than if you just prestige early with boost.Becauae gen mat is what outpost mainly generate in twrms of recources.

    Parts and synthite from bases is less than a raid, usually topped at 200 each (per outpost clean up) with the diminishing returns effect.

    To the outstanding, elephant in the room, complaint of 'but I want to see my trap combo(s) do work', I would advise re implement the combo in another outpost.

    The stongest counter point to 'I want my base to live forever' is 'You can just build it again, new and possibly even better'

    Reusing the same combos is basically the same as the same base living forever, the main differnce being: as a raider, I will see the same combo mulltiple times across multiple outposts (in all its slight variations) versus the single time I will see an oupost over the course of its active life

    ...and the lack of effort on the builders part not to have to build. (Argument that builders can be just as lazy as raiders)

    Consider this, 1 oupost to catch 100 raiders one time each - or - 100 outposts to catch each raider 100 times each.

    That math on that works itself out pretty quickly.

    I think the shortage on raids comes directly from many people 'only building' but not raiding. Can't live on the fat of the land, if there is no fat.

    As builders we need to get out there, raid, and support other builders works: hoping they will do the same for us.

    Some in this communtiy seems to think builders and raiders are seperate. They are not. All players are in both pools. If you are abstaining from either you are likely hurting the game. Raiders need builds to raid; builders need raiders to raid their builds.

    Everyone can do both with varying degrees of success. So why not do both?

  • hastarkis
    hastarkis Member, Alpha Surveyor Posts: 573

    >>How is a raider coming in, not being able to access tombs, then leaving and a raider coming in, looting tombs, then leaving: any different? They gain and you dont?

    Difference is if they see/understand tombs were built into outpost they can try to get them OR they can even pass those outposts in the first place if it's pretty obvious from preview. As far as I understand, those people are trying to search for outposts high in the air or with visible tomb arrows on outside walls/bedrocks.

    Yes, of course, you can't please all types of raiders but all those raiders who don't match with your base spend your matchmaking time. We don't know if deathless abandoning somehow affects matchmaking but could be that it doesn't affect it at all. So, like, you have some minimal visibility before you loose matchmaking boost. You only can get that many raids during that time. If all those raids go in, loot tombs and go out without even trying... that's frustrating af? It's not bad to try to suck them into your base with their greed. If they want tombs so bad they can try to find them inside and maybe even have fun playing. If they leave just because there's no free tombs outside then, well, I guess, not all outposts are built for players like those.

    >>The number of raiders need to be equal to or greater than the number of builders. The solution is not punishing the dud raiders (effevtively punishing all raiders), but instead actively encouraging everyone to raid more.

    To raid more. That's extremely correct. As for now "going in, looting tombs and going out" could be more profitable (due to awful RNG and corrosive floors which both can give you zero synth) and more desirable (due to time effectivness) than actual raiding. IMO, people should get synth for raiding not for tomb hunting :/

  • MadMoeZel
    MadMoeZel Member Posts: 487

    they removed the penalty for leaving, i'm literally going into maps, breaking tombs and leaving, no exposed tombs, i leave. either way, builder gets nothing and i get loot. ez win. you block the tomb with holo cube, put it in your base? good for you, don't care, moving on. that is what the game is going to become for everyone and i'm getting a head start and profiting off this idiotic setup. you should do the same.

  • hastarkis
    hastarkis Member, Alpha Surveyor Posts: 573

    Master the 1st is awaiting along with all opportunities to learn new things and you are going to spend your time loading, jumping around bedrocks and loading again. Interesting.

  • MadMoeZel
    MadMoeZel Member Posts: 487

    Master 1 means nothing with no rank penalties. with 0 setback, literally anyone can climb. there is no longer a skill requirement for master 1 as there is no way to go backwards.

    yeah, i'm gonna spend my time stockpiling a crap ton of low effort resources while i'm able to profit off this poor decision. because it's again, profitable. i can now farm synthite at a rate of over 3000 an hour doing this. so i'm gonna hit the currency cap.

    you know what, yeah. i'm fine with this. builders no longer have to raid, they can just farm tombs and leave for no penalty. they made it so i don't have to raid anymore i can focus on my building. wonderful!

    HEY BUILDERS, you don't actually have to beat bases anymore to build, just take tombs on the big maps and quit any that are blocked since there is no rank penalty, leave after getting tombs, don't do outpost. saves time, better profit per hour, less frustration, and you can go back to focusing on what you actually wanted to do. POWER TO THE BUILDERS!!!! BUILDER TO MASTER!!!

  • Nahasno
    Nahasno Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 47

    Oh... this is a very misleading post. Since i read a lot here in the forum i know that you are not a pure raider on the contrary you seem to like building as much as raiding. So it's very sarcastic and ironic - i get you but some will not understand it the way it is intended.

    Because if they really do follow that advice they shoot them selfs in the foot because there are no pure raiders in this game at least not long time, because well there are no incentives to hold them in game after they maxed out their equipment there would be only cosmetics for them.

    That's one of the big problems of this game, that many don't get that they can't do only the one thing (build only) without hurting the experience of anybody else that plays the game as intended.

  • MadMoeZel
    MadMoeZel Member Posts: 487

    love to build, love to conquer challenges. this update feels bad for both.

  • hastarkis
    hastarkis Member, Alpha Surveyor Posts: 573

    The problem is there are pure raiders. It's possible to be pure raider. Your argument about "nothing is here to keep them busy after max out equipment" is kinda true but it's... personal? Not objective? Like it's a matter of preferences whether you like to raid bases with nothing to unlock or not. But it's possible. They can raid and do nothing else if they like.

    And it's logical for players that if you can be pure raider you should also be able to be a pure builder too, but you can't, and this time it's not about preferences, it's about game economy. It's missleading in the core, deep in souls of main builders it feels unfair and unrewarding. People love symmetry, people don't think through, they try, get friction and become sad even if it's for a matter of game life.

    There wouldn't be THAT much friction (I think) if it wouldn't be possible to be a pure raider too. If raiders have to build (at least anything) to continue raids then it's ok that builders have to raid to continue building.

    Or with better synth economy: pure raiders can raid just several brutals casually and be satisfyed (and even unlock smth new if there is smth to unlock) but builders liretally must raid a lot because otherwise they stop being builders (their bases can't be active). And it's not even guaranteed they'll be able to unlock anything after that grind, people have to choose between several unlocks and one prestige.

    So back to your "that many don't get that they can't do only the one thing (building)". If devs want people to accept it's impossible to be pure builders, devs need to make it more rewarding. So people could feel justifyed and fair that they have to do that much work to keep their bases active. But then you get 4 raids per 24h cycle and 35 synth. And 1,5 levels of advisors, ofc. Completely ok reward for someone who unlocked everything already. I guess, I must raid another 15 raids to restart this cycle (and do that couple times bc I have more than one outpost) because that's deffinetely smth that can incentives to hold me in game after I maxed out my equipment.

    Am I missing smth here? Because that's my experience and I stopped to build new things for now, beeing even partially builder isn't worth my time, I just raid and that's it.

  • hastarkis
    hastarkis Member, Alpha Surveyor Posts: 573

    Less frustration, yeah. And then all your bases will be raided like that, too. But I got you. I saw your comments about master and numbers go brrrr but your argument about no negatives makes sense. I guess, there still can be only one 1st master but it's understandble if you aren't interested anymore.

    And, I guess, you just really like to exploit system's weaknesses for max profit :) You'd be a good game balance tester. At least bug with corrosives was fun and challenging for you (and you think it's healthy for the game) but are you really going to use this method even though it's boring af and hurts other builders? If yes then why? For numbers? For devs attention? It's just your favorite playstyle? Is this healthy?

    Like, for instance, don't you think it's more profitable to actually get genmat and get additional synth from levels? In my experience you farm more parts than synth from tombs anyway, it's ridiculous and doesn't worth a time of loading. If I'd try to farm synth i'd find an easy outposts with tons of traps and no corrosive floors and clear it as many times as possible before debuffs. Isn't it more profitable to clear one base 10-15 times than jump into 10-15 bases with tombs rng? Especially when it's pretty hard to find big normal maps, pretty all of them are small or medium.

  • MythicMikeneto
    MythicMikeneto Member Posts: 52

    Lol. So going in and abandoning is still 1 death for the builder. With lowered prestige requimentsenoigh of those could carry an outpost to p10.

    If you are alt+f4-ing it, builders can just block you. It right there in the screen under 'view profile' for the raider.

    Perhaps just blocking these 'builder only, tomb hunter, alt +f4' players may be the way to go. It will shrink their radier pool for thier builds (the are so single mindedly dedicated too) and their build pool (for tomb hunting).

    Soon these specific types of 'build only, tomb hunter, alt+ f4" player could be tomb hunting each. other and know what it is like to have a raider not give a care about the outpost you spent time and effort to create. Lol.

    Most fitting, I think.

    I recommend trying not be a selfish 'builder only' and give out a few legit raids daily. In my opinion it is very hypocritical and elitist to be like 'Legit raid my oupost, but I will never legit raid yours'

    Sad that it may come to blocking people for this behavior. I usually disagree with 'cancel' culture; this game seems to have it ingrained into it though.

  • MythicMikeneto
    MythicMikeneto Member Posts: 52

    But you do get synth for raiding.

    Every 9 outpost you get a +125 synth/parts

    Every 5 advisor levels you get +250 synth/parts

    Trap, guard kills, and even tombs are random to give synth. Popping a tomb and seejng all traps is a super sad moment.

    Just wish that upon those tomb hunter/leavers lol.

  • MadMoeZel
    MadMoeZel Member Posts: 487
    edited May 13

    i do indeed do balance testing for many things. i break game economies as well. a few friends and i have a support ticket filed currently to removed a bug that lets flames go through solid objects, multiple floors/walls. i will give no further detail as i don't want this becoming common knowledge, it's game breaking with 0 counter play. i care a lot about fairness but i also care a lot more about rewarding people who put in effort and i've seen this game as a die to learn situation. i don't think that preforming poorly should be punished, but i think that once you made a conscious decision to be somewhere that quitting shouldn't be free. you could die once and quit, die five times and quit, or die 3 times and get genmat and get out, and it's all the same reward as far as rank is concerned. so theres no ranking reward to pushing yourself. this promoted a situation of people quitting which doesn't reward builders, doesn't help raiders grow. sure it may feel good to be able to just go in and quit, but we were given an extremely inexpensive boost from the suit advisor to gather information BEFORE we go in. so we can get information, go in, and then still decide not to play with no consequences. it feels like being treated like a child. do we really need bumpers on our bowling lane?

    there are tons of large maps in normal, including mine. i have the game on SSD so my load times are minimal. and i scout maps with open bedrock on the picture. in and out in about 90 seconds. average of 100(80-120) of both parts and synthite each time for all 3 tombs, down to about 70 if you get 2. the thing about this is that it has minimal risk, and minimal frustration. it's like going mining for ore in the mountains and getting mosquitos after you compared to going into the den of 3-4 bears to do it.

    i'd have to go into the den 25 times to level chimera and get 250 synthite going into normals. some of the maps i scout also have open genmat or a exposed fight map, i take it in that situation on the way out. but why waste the time going into an outpost and checking every angle or risking death or consumables? there is literally nothing to keep you in the map once you have that loot, trap loot is minimal, trap exp isn't important.

    feel free to block me. that's your loss. i'm one of the people actually raiding the brutal bases. I also make some of the harder content, but if challenges scare you i understand. the conversation isn't about prestige, it's about the fact that it costs synthite to keep the map alive and 1 death won't give you enough to do it. so i've taught others how who don't get enough deaths in their outpost because of the lack of punishment for quitting how to go get synthite at minimal risk. the tomb only hunters are countered by 2nd wave holo blocks on the tombs for 45 points on large maps, don't wanna get hunted, cover them up with completion required, be warned if you do that people are gonna block you for not giving them free tombs so enjoy having YOUR raider and outpost pool reduced for denying it. what you fail to understand is that the majority of the players in normal are these people. i've got the metrics. in the last several days including before the matchmaking update i've consistently seen 80%+ of all raids that i receive ignore art or challenge builds in favor of XP maps. raiders never cared about builders, they said that builders were all exploiters wile pulling ammo through solid objects, dragging guards to the map edge and killing them from outside their allowed pathing, reviving players through walls, grenading traps through walls.

    the tomb hunting is a direct result of low raid count, and removal of punishment for quitting. there is no incentive to do the outpost because you keep your loot on quit. getting the genmat will almost always take longer and give you less resource for time spent given the current setup.

    Hopefully, builders seeing this in replays will holo block the tombs as meta so people stop loot hunting and start running outposts.

  • MythicMikeneto
    MythicMikeneto Member Posts: 52

    I hope people decide to raid over blocking too.

    I dont have enoigb faith in people to reasonably beleive that will happen. Would be nice tho.

    I would say 'tomb hunting' is the result of the 'build only' mentality.

    I raid for an hour or two a day and have plenty of synthite to maintain bases and get enoigh raids to take them to p10. (Openly sharing that I dont build large or brutal outposts.)

    If all builders would just get some laps in on raids, their outposts could be maintained and the raider pool would be larger too.

    I turned out 70 normals the other night in under two hours, gave 2 accolades to most builds (practicing to get better at speed running), to make up for the low death counts.

    Tonight I raided 30 or so in dangerous and brutal to climb the LB, again 2 accolades to most builds.

    Sitting on 5k synth after prestiging/reactivating 3 bases.

    Gonna build a new outpost tomorrow and do some more raiding for an hour or two.

    Its not really that bad to be a fully contributing member of this game community as a radier and a builder; You just have to want to do so, instead of looking for ways around it. Skirting the raids seems to take just about as much effort, But you do you.

    Block me if you ever feel the need. My name here matches the one in game. I don't think I will be presented with a need to block you.

    Wishing you the best in your tomb hunting/raids/builds.

  • MadMoeZel
    MadMoeZel Member Posts: 487

    i also grind out the raids. i enjoy overcoming challenges. but we aren't seeing hard content in live we're seeing tedious content. single door rooms with a mountain of stall where 90% of the raid is spent going in and out of a single door. as a result people stopped playing in brutal so all the actually good hard builds didn't get played, so we stopped putting them in live and took them to social instead. i also think blocking over a base is the wrong way to handle things especially when given the option to remove it from your list in other ways. i had bases that were self sufficient, didn't need to raid but i do because as you said, it helps with health of game, i do co-ops to help people struggling, to show them that anything can be done, i put in my time trying to clear the hardest bases because they're normally on overdrive i'd assume and my completion of them removes the harder maps from the queue for players who may not have as easy a time with it but want to try the bracket (this is where the comment about stall rooms comes from)

    skirting the raids takes less effort than checking corners in a base, and rewards supplies at a faster rate at the cost of genmat progression. but once you've capped out on things that really isn't a draw. it becomes about efficiency of time.

    this may not be the gameplay i want, but it's the gameplay promoted by the current setup, easy, low risk, time efficient resource farming that rewards me. the game doesn't care that this will hurt the builder because it makes the raider happy. i straight don't build art builds anymore for normal because they don't get played. all my efforts now go to making troll XP maps that are designed to be as unpleasant as i can to encourage people to play actual maps instead. i holo block my tombs to prevent tomb hunting, i have for ages because i've already seen this behavior BEFORE the penalty was removed. and guess what, you still get abandoned and blocked for that.

  • MadMoeZel
    MadMoeZel Member Posts: 487

    P.S. - I am treating the game much like a treat a corporation. we the builders are like employees, until we say we won't stand for it anymore, things won't change for us. that means raiders pulling ammo through walls, reviving through walls, kiting guards to the edge of map to shoot from out of range, tomb hunting. all this is on us the builder to stop the raider from doing cause nobody else cares. raiders don't respect us enough to not do things like this to us, but behavior patches out what raiders don't like. so until we give behavior a reason to change things, they won't. and builders won't kick up a storm because we're already not getting raids and don't want to risk getting less, but until the builders get fed up and demand change nothing will change and we will continue to be disrespected by anyone going into our content. Builders will get fed up and demand that change faster the more they see it, and the methods i describe are efficient and easy. I share the information to make the behavior (no pun intended) commonplace, forcing the builders to adapt and speak up to get the changes we need. a builder shouldn't have to multi-layer walls to stop through-solid-object interactions, they shouldn't exist in the first place. allowing players to come in, ignore the outpost entirely, and leave with loot giving no rewards to the builder isn't healthy for the game but it's what behavior did. so i'm exposing that sickness in hopes they fix it.

  • hastarkis
    hastarkis Member, Alpha Surveyor Posts: 573

    Every properly ended raid gives you this, correct. And MadMoeZel doesn't get this but get much much more for tomb hunting. That's what I meant. Normal raiding is less profitable than tomb hunting. Or maybe not less but also not enough to choose it.

    Like, you say that traps and guards give you synth but do they with all corrosive ammo traps? I get my ammo back easily but all my loot is buried under acid and I get nothing. I legitimately remember outposts where all my synth was from tombs (smth like 20-30) and that's it despite several deaths and destroyed traps. Yes, I got genmat to get level reward later but I bet I'd got same genmat and spent less time if I abandoned this one after tombs and finished another outpost with no pits rather than this one.

    That's sad too but apparently I, as a builder, need to think this through and avoid some fair trap builds just because raiders don't feel rewarded enough for beating them.

    Every five properly raided outposts give me 250 synth from leveling. Tomb hunting gives more in less time. But boring af :/

    @MadMoeZel my game is also in ssd and my loading time isn't much better than hdd :/ well, with this setup... Meh. Just meh.

  • MadMoeZel
    MadMoeZel Member Posts: 487

    it's really unfortunate that the game has incentivized this kind of play. we need to be giving people truck tons of rewards for completion and less for trivial crap.

  • Seraphor
    Seraphor Member Posts: 6,650
    edited May 13

    Every five properly raided outposts give me 250 synth from leveling. Tomb hunting gives more in less time. But boring af :/

    Does it?

    I've finish raids where the tombs have given as little as 10, or even zero synthite.

    Add on the 125 from completing 3 Champions, and I'm pretty sure it's more profitable to just finish the raids. Most don't take that long, and 'looking for the tombs' can be just as long-winded.

    I've certainly felt no additional incentive to abandon raids unless they were genuinely a pain to attempt.

    I can't disagree that an additional loot drop on successful completion would be nice though. Maybe a bonus 25/25/25 across all currencies or something like that. Could even take it out of the 125 Champion prize if necessary and reduce that to 100. After all there's nothing really special about champion bases, P5-10 still show up in the regular pool.

    Post edited by Seraphor on
  • Tishus
    Tishus Member Posts: 34
    edited May 14

    Tombs farms are the way to go now. 3 tombs in 30 secs is better than to waist 15m to 20m on a brutal base.

    - yeah removing penalty is bad and yeah it will screw the reading in bases too-

    Also they increase the exp in accolite witch is another bad system nobody use. It only make toxic the game and crybabys use them to try to change how we need to build, like builders need accolite to prestige lol with kills is enouf hahaha.

    Blocking people is another bad system, its only help to kill the game more fast.

  • MadMoeZel
    MadMoeZel Member Posts: 487

    blocking a singular map should have been how blocking worked. instead they made it prevent ALL OTHER MAPS TYPES that person made become unplayable to that player AND stops that builder from being able to raid them, lowering their own raids. that heavy of a block is reserved for the kind of game with real time interaction or when people message and harass after the fact.

    i'm just farming resources to cap my currencies and try to find a limit on how many consumables i can have.