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Is it fair to hold game hostage?

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So I just finished a match with a friend and we went against a Leatherface who straight up got us cornered in the house on Coldwin Farm, legit he would not leave the staircase or anything, and we were there for a good 5 minutes before my friend had the dumb idea of doing the last gen since this Leatherface had NOED. We were basically forced to do the gen or have a Mexican standoff with a Leatherface. If I'm not mistaken, didn't the devs make holding the game hostage? If so, what can I do to report this dude?

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  • TragicSolitude
    TragicSolitude Member, Alpha Surveyor Posts: 6,685
    edited November 2019
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    Holding the game hostage means one side prevents the other side from ending the game in any way other than disconnecting.

    Also, you have to report people in-game and also file a ticket. Once you've left the end match screen, I think it's too late.

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
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    @pichumudkip

    Now, here's where the rule gets tricky.

    Holding the game hostage refers to a Killer or sometimes a Survivor... keeping you or another player in a specific small room or corner in which they can't escape from...

    The Survivor doesn't move at all, and the Killer doesn't hit you with his weapon. It's less likely for a Survivor to pull this off since the Killer will just hit you both when he sees the crows and notifications... but if the Killer is on board with this for some reason and doesn't hit the Survivor off you... than it can technically be considered "Holding the Game Hostage"

    Now, here's where the main part of the rule comes in. For the most part, this rule applies to Killers except for the rare circumstance above... which is highly unlikely to ever happen in-game.

    Anyways, for a Killer to trap a Survivor in a corner or a small room and not moving until the Survivor is forced to DC... than that's holding the game hostage... If the Killer doesn't move from that spot for 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, or even 30 minutes... than that's holding the game hostage... regardless if the Survivor DCs or not.

    Now, in your case, the Killer didn't move from the staircase what-so-ever... and in that time you had an option to activate the last generator and power the exit gates. If the Killer proceeded to move after that generator was activated, than that's not holding the game hostage... It's just bad sportsmanship which you can still report them for.

    If he still didn't move for say... 5... 10... 15 minutes... but than downed you all and killed you... than that's holding the game hostage.

    The reason the 1st part where he moves after the generator isn't holding the game hostage... is because he allowed you to do the generator and didn't stop it... that's his loss... than he moved because of NOED or his chainsaw for a free down or whatever... By doing so, he's only going to get one down most likely, and if he downs both of you than that's unlucky...

    It's not holding the game hostage since he moved and the generator was done... which progressed the match... in any case, he was going to down one of you anyways upstairs... so by moving after the generator was done... basically fed you points and possible an escape.

    I suppose you could report him for trolling or bad sportsmanship... but if he moved after the generator was done... than that's not holding the game hostage since he progress the match by downing one of you...

    If he didn't and stood there for a decent length of time, than it IS taking the game hostage since he's wasting time for everyone... and not letting the game progress.

  • pichumudkip
    pichumudkip Member Posts: 155
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    It was only my friend and I both left in the game, and we were both trapped in the house, and even though my friend did finish the gen, the killer had NOED so we were dead regardless of what happened.

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
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    So... you DC'ed before that end result could be met or?

    Cause i'm not following with what you're telling me...

  • Atrushan88
    Atrushan88 Member Posts: 2,084
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    In this case it was a Leatherface though. There's no way he could NOT get both survivors if he didn't move. Also in this case, if the survivors didn't do the generator what would have happened? Would THEY have been reportable for "holding the game hostage" when actually the Leatherface was?

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
    edited November 2019
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    I think you're missing the point, if he didn't move regardless than he's holding the game hostage by refusing to move so he can down them both...

    If you keep someone in a small room... or in this case... a room with one exit that you're blocking with your body, THAN it's holding the game hostage. If he were to move from that spot and not resume blocking it after you gets got the generator done... than that's HIS loss and nobody elses...

    From what i'm understanding here... he didn't move from that spot so he could get both him and his friend downed... so yes, he was holding the game hostage since he refused to move from that spot until he downed them both... Which... that could've taken hours if they both didn't get close enough...

    It's one thing to block the stairway to get someone downed... it's another to keep multiple people upstairs and refusing to move until he downed both of them...

    note

    This is all speculation and opinions, we judge what he did with our own opinions, but the rules could say otherwise... or the specifications of how to break that rule wasn't met here...

    I'm giving my honest 100% opinion on the issue through facts and common sense... for all we know, he could be fine to do that... but if you look at it from another way... that clearly isn't the case.

  • Atrushan88
    Atrushan88 Member Posts: 2,084
    edited November 2019
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    I was mainly asking about what would happen if the survivors didn't do the generator. According to your description, it'd sound like the survivors were holding the game hostage even if they were just trying to stay alive without giving him the ability to kill them both(let's be honest any killer could kill both with NOED in that situation, not just Leatherface even if they did move after the generator was powered). Also, what if that wasn't the last generator? Would it count because technically the game could still "progress" even if it couldn't end?

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
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    @Atrushan88

    What're you even talking about...

    How would the Survivors hold the game hostage if they can't escape from the upstairs of the Thompson house in-general?

    It doesn't matter if they did the generator or not... it was LF... he can down both of them if they're close enough...

    The reason I said the game is "progressing" is because they're doing a generator which is their main objective... in a sense, they're progressing the match by completing it and power the exit gates... regardless... they still CAN'T escape the house because the Killer is blocking the only exit... So it's still holding the game hostage since LF is refusing to move from the exit until he downs them both...

    It's unknown if he even had NOED, it doesn't even matter if he did or not... if he chainsaws one of them at the exit than the other one is as good as dead... There is no loops up there, and the only window leads to a dead end...

    In a sense, he trapped them both in an unwinnable situation and by doing so he's holding the game hostage to get what he wants... Regardless if he wanted to kill them both or not, he still blocked their own exit of escape or moving from that spot... the same goes for if you block someone in a corner as the Killer and went to go order some take out... You're still trapping them in a spot that they can't move from UNLESS they DC or the Killer downs them somehow...

    Regardless if you're taking 10 minutes or 5 hours to down someone... you're still trapping BOTH or the last Survivor in a room they can't escape from... regardless if they did the generator or not they couldn't escape.

  • Atrushan88
    Atrushan88 Member Posts: 2,084
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    It was mainly from the phrase "As long as the game can progress". If the survivors don't do the generator the game can still progress technically, keeping the Leatherface from being reportable. Since you said "If he moved after the last gen was completed he would not be holding the game hostage".

    That said, if the survivors didn't do the gen and didn't leave that room(they couldn't), they could technically be counted as doing the same thing some survivors do to troll killers in games, like hiding all game without doing gens.

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
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    If you're trapped in the say... isolation room in Hawkins with another Survivor... and your only option is to DC, sit there for hours, or do the generator and die? What would you do?

    It doesn't matter if the room was a 2x2 closet or made up of 4 rooms with one exit... he still blocked the exit and refused to move to trap them both in one spot...

    If they didn't do the generators in say... the Hawkins room... than they'd still be trapped there... If they did... than the Killer probably has NOED and would down them both like with the upstairs Thompson House incident here... REGARDLESS!!! He still didn't move from the spot and trapped them both in that room so he could guarantee a down.

    Basically, here's how this goes down so everything is cleared up. If they did the generator and activated his NOED (He might not even had NOED) than he's still blocking the exit and literally holding the game hostage to down them both...

    I said "If he moved it wouldn't be doing it anymore..." should've been more specific... If he moved from that spot and chased one person regularly while moving from the exit for one to escape than technically... TECHNICALLY... he let them do one generator and boned himself...

    That's kind of the only scenario that it would exhume the behavior... but I might be 100% wrong with that statement and he could still be reportable for not moving from the spot in-general... for that period of time...

    He still technically trapped them in the upstairs regardless if they did the generator or not... so he's still holding the game hostage by doing so.

  • Atrushan88
    Atrushan88 Member Posts: 2,084
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    K, it was mainly you saying that "If he moved after the gen was powered then it wasn't" that confused me in this case.

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
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    I'll detail what I say more in the future with these certain subjects than.

    I can see that was kind of vague my bad.

  • pichumudkip
    pichumudkip Member Posts: 155
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    Na we stayed in the game.

    But something I did forget to mention, after my friend finished the gen, he had the "bright" idea of going straight to the Leatherface for no reason and he got down, so I resorted to attempt to use head on but that didn't work since I previously used on him and he had learned.

  • pichumudkip
    pichumudkip Member Posts: 155
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    HOLD UP I JUST REALIZED I FORGOT A PRETTY IMPORTANT DETAIL.

    The only reason why we were both in the house was because my friend was hooked there and I came to unhook him.

  • Gay Myers (Luzi)
    Gay Myers (Luzi) Member Posts: 4,427
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    Hey, basically, if a killer holds you up there or in a corner with no way of escaping - it can be considered holding the game hostage. I know it can now be argued you were able to do the gen - but the point is that there was no way of getting out unless the killer moved.

    Same goes if a survivor locks in survivors in certain spots like that.

    The best thing you can do then is to report the killer in the game and send additional evidence (video evidence) to support.

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
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    Regardless he didn't move from the spot until you did the generator... and if you didn't.... its LF.... he'll down you because that room has nothing to help you with EXCEPT the lockers... but... that didn't work out...

  • yobuddd
    yobuddd Member Posts: 2,251
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    Would the killer have attacked if you got near?

    • Yes? Then he did nothing wrong. Strategy. You would have been downed to either bleed out, be hooked, or wiggle free. Game ends, so not a hostage situation.
    • No? Then it’s hostage taking and reportable. If you’re trapped and he won’t hit you to progress the game, then he’s at fault.
  • pichumudkip
    pichumudkip Member Posts: 155
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    It was a Bubba so he just threatened us with his chainsaw if we ever got close, he wanted to down both of us at once.

  • yobuddd
    yobuddd Member Posts: 2,251
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    Fair enough. And now the big question is, would he have done it? Is there any way that your actions could help lead to a resolution of the match? If so, then there’s nothing wrong here.

    Bad situation for you, I admit, but, not reportable as far as I can tell. I would have tried to get him to fully attack with his chainsaw and make him bump into something. That’s your shot at freedom during his stun.

    He's only in the wrong if he’s standing at the top of the stairs to block your access down, and then decides to go make dinner and binge watch Netflix.

  • pichumudkip
    pichumudkip Member Posts: 155
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    My friend decided to attempt to leave after the gen but he got smacked and the Leatherface had NOED, so I tried using head-on but since I used it before, he knew to not get close to the locker. The only thing I could of done was get the 4% but that failed

  • Nobsyde
    Nobsyde Member Posts: 1,288
    edited November 2019
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    I have a different opinion from some of the replies above..

    To hold a game hostage means that the game cannot progress because of one party. That means that either the killer disallow you to do generators without any apparent reason (I'll come back to this) or the survivors refuse to do anything and hide in a proactive way. Of course the latter is a bit more difficult, if not impossible (eventually the killer could go afk and survivors either do the generators or will have to go to sleep / eat :P), so let's not consider it for now.

    So let's go back to killer disallowing you to do generators without any apparent reason: it has already been stated that to block a survivor to wait for DS / borrowed time is not holding the game hostage, so we already know that if the killer gains an advantage by blocking you, it's fair.

    In your case there were two survivors, only one exit, a generator and apparently NOED (but we don't know that in advance, so it doesn't matter). What's important though is that the killer was Leatherface.

    At this point by definition the game cannot be held hostage by the killer until you repair the generator, but there is a caveat. You, as a survivor, could decide that doing that generator would be too detrimental for you, and prefer to get a hit / be downed, so that the other survivor can escape and either cleanse totems / search for another generator. In order to do this, you have to give the opportunity to the killer to hit you.

    Now this is where being Leatherface is somehow important: a normal M1 killer cannot down you in one shot, thus leading to the mexican standoff: either you let my NOED activate, or we wait. But LF can down you, so he has to do it if he really has the opportunity.

    If you stand in front of him and he refuses to down you then yes, it becomes holding the game hostage. If you hide, it's not.


    On your part you are not holding the game hostage even if you hide, because you either do the generator or crows will spawn on you anyway, and the killer can end the stale at any time if he wishes to.


    EDIT: by the way this is basically the same scenario of a hatch standoff before hatch could be closed: the killer blocks the hatch, the survivor can either do a generator (and probably die) or wait indefinitely. A survivor refusing to act is not holding the game hostage because the killer can try to hit and down him (...but if he does, the survivor escapes), and the killer is not holding the game hostage because the survivor can do a generator to activate the doors (...but if he does, the killer can kill him).

  • Fog_King
    Fog_King Member Posts: 688
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    Holding a game hostage is not ok and I don't see the point. So LF wanted to down you both and since he could not, he just stood there, blocking the way. I don't understand how that is fun, even for the killer. Just go for one of the survivors. If the other escapes, well, there will be other games where maybe the killer will kill everyone.

    My line of thought, when I play killer is, if I can't kill everyone, just let me get some points trying to kill the ones I can and let the match end. With 5 minutes I could have started another match.