Here's our Daily Reminder that playing Nurse still feels miserable.
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Her kill rate will rise, and it is because people will only play her when they use other killers to farm her blood web for double recharge add-ons.
nobody will play her bare bones and that seems to be bhvr's goal. no killer is allowed to be viable without top tier add-ons.
They probably design killers at full strength and then sit down and ask, "now what can we strip from it and put into add-ons?"
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This daily reminder, reminds me why nurse should never have been introduced to the game in the first place.
My question is why the devs allowed such a broken killer into the game, to begin with.
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If you look at how the game was upon her release, the Nurse we had before the rework would have been underpowered as ######### compared to what survivors had.
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That's just not true.
Nurse was OP at release and hard countered EVERYTHING survivors had, including REAL infinites. Not the soft pseudo thing people claim are infinites now.
You either weren't there at release, or you're just lying.
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Oh.. so when she countered your real infinite, she was op. How about you used your real infinite to counter all other killers at that time?
Both of them are nerfed decades ago. So nurse didn't need another nerf to her base power with cooldown. Devs only did that simply because they ran out of idea of her add-ons. Just look at her add-ons, half of them are useless or straight nerf, not to mention the "best" ultra rare add-ons
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Now you're just mischaracterising my argument and conflating your own arguments
She's broken, she's always been broken. She was introduced to counter REAL infinites and killers still complained so REAL infinites were removed.
She should never have been introduced because she broke the game. This magical line of yours where she was 'OK at one stage' doesn't exist.
And you pointing the finger at me while misconstruing my argument is the equivalent of trying to rile up the mob while yelling 'get him'.
Devs should have never allowed such a broken killer in the game to begin with.
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Except that even Legacy Nurse mains who never used more than 2 blinks and almost never used range add-ons ( or any add-ons for that matter ) say that the base kit nerf was unnecessary and that Nurse isn't the strongest killer anymore. So stop with the argument that only the Nurses who relied on her broken add-ons complain about her nerfs, like, I literally never saw someone complaining that Omega Blink is gone.
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Killers still complained because not everyone wanted to play nurse. And her power was fine, it was her add ons that where the problem. And the changed those...and then continued to beat her with the nerf bat for no good reason afterwards.
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Nurse was nerfed the same time where those infinites gone, so what are you complaining about?
Are you saying that those infinites that did not have any counter were fine? You said that it was only killers that complained about the infinites, so you actually think that those loops are fine?
Are you sad that you cannot run nurse around loops like with other killers? If you do, you have my sympathy, and you deserve to be killed by every single nurse.
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I think you misunderstand what statistics represent. A killrate for a killer is known as GLOBAL statistic. Global means that regardless of who the opponent is and regardless of skill level of the player, they achieve a certain killrate. In almost every video game, the hardest characters ALWAYS have the lower winrate because if a character is truly difficult to play, it means not everyone can play that character and since statistics measure a global average, those who can't play the killer bring down the average. Killrate do not measure effectiveness, they measure overall difficulty of a killer. you need micro statistics to measure effectiveness and in this game, you need statistics to measure "killer momentum" which is determined by how fast generator pop in comparison to how fast a killer gets hits on survivors/downs or how fast they hook. There are other factors to consider like toolboxs and keys escapes but that's jist of it.
Spirit is weird one, the thing is, spirit is harder to play than most killers, the problem is, she's also hard to face as survivor so even if spirit makes a lot of mistakes, odds are that survivor will make just as many mistakes against her, so it sort of cancels out in killers favor.
Nurse isn't bad. Nurse has recharge add-on that bring her back to old nurse. The omega blink isn't even gone, It's still mostly there, it just doesn't give extra charge speed to buff chain-blinks which was major problem with it in first iterations of it. The stuff they removed were add-on that remove counter-play of the chase for nurse which included charge time add-on, extra blinks, faster blink movement speed. are her add-ons in a good spot? well not exactly, a lot of them were pretty much useless but that can be said for almost every killer, so nothing changes there.
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'Killers still complained because not everyone wanted to play nurse. '
My point exactly and I actually stated that in my prior post along with why nurse should never have come into the game.
Nerf the nurse again because turning a top tier killer into a bottom tier one is the only thing you can do at this stage to a killer who has fundamentally broken the game since release.
What I find so amusing is that my arguments have stood the test of time. I'm making the same arguments now I was making at nurse release. The anecdotal emotive arguments against my points don't offer anything.
Just because nurse had it 'better' before doesn't mean it should have been there to begin with.
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'you cannot run nurse around loops like with other killers?'
Now we get to the heart of YOUR argument. A good nurse who always hits their mark. I have an analogy of survivor running in an open field in a straight line. Because that's what your arguing for a 'degree of challenge, but I still win'. And you're not evening talking about REAL infinites are you, your talking about pallet loopers too judging by your framing.
'Nurse was nerfed the same time where those infinites gone'
Once again, you either have no idea or your just lying.
No, infinites were up a number of months after nurse release. It was only after devs realised killers were still complaining that infinites were gone. So along with some nurse tweaks (I struggle to even call them nerfs until recently) you had infinites gone, bloodlust added, entity blocker added exhaustion added and now more recently with end game timer and hatch close ALL benefiting your precious nurse.
I'm sorry but you are either new to DBD or you don't remember the history of this game.
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Wow... just wow... i never seen people justify nerfs just because she was broken.
So let's apply the same concept for survivors.
Survivors was fundamentally broken at the beginning, real infinites everywhere, incredible vault speed, fast gen times, broken flashlight, toolboxes.... ( the list goes on)
Devs should never introduce something that is fundamentally broken, right? So let's nerf them to the ground because this is the only thing you can do at this stage to survivors who has fundamentally broken since release.
Have a nice day :)
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I admit that i'm not that old, and i never said i'm old player, but that doesn't change my point. Both of them were nerfed. She got changed recently too (i agree her add-ons need change, but not her base power)
And introducing the nurse doesn't justify the existence of infinites. Not every killers were nurse, and i don't think that you did not abuse the infinites when going against other killers.
And i don't really understand what you wrote in second paragraph.
"A good nurse that always hit the mark". Are you suggesting that the mark is you? And what's wrong with a nurse player that is good with her can hit the mark consistently? Are you saying that those people should not be rewarded for how skillful they are?
And that brings to my final question. Have you ever played nurse before? Or killer in general? If you think that nurse is still op and deserves further nerf, play her with 2 add-ons that nerf her lunge and blink distance, without perks in rank 1 for 10 games a row. Let's see how many 4k you can get.
Before you tried what i suggested, i have nothing to discuss with you
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'Devs should never introduce something that is fundamentally broken, right? So let's nerf them to the ground because this is the only thing you can do at this stage to survivors who has fundamentally broken since release.'
rofl are you triggered?
That's basically what happened..... If you bothered to check my list of things added for killers overall. Also you still need survivors no matter how 'broken' they are, as you claim. I don't mind to just delete nurse and go back to working on these 'OP survivors' I see you keep mentioning.
We seem to be in agreement O_o
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'And that brings to my final question. Have you ever played nurse before? Or killer in general? If you think that nurse is still op and deserves further nerf, play her with 2 add-ons that nerf her lunge and blink distance, without perks in rank 1 for 10 games a row. Let's see how many 4k you can get.'
I made rank 1 killer when there were REAL infinites in the game, there was no exhaustion so Sprint Burst would recycle during chases and could be used in conjuction with Balanced Landing. Back then too, Auto Haven had long walls and more pallets when there was no 'slow vault'.
I think this conversation is done.
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Please explain in detail where the nurse exactly broke the game.
Survivors had to rely on skill instead because that is what it took to juke a nurse. Knowledge about the killer and how to handle it or why did some people lasted longer in a chase than others with her? Magic i suppose.
Prenerf basekit nurse was the best to play against, not breaking the game at all. If you played the game for such a long time, you should know that nurse had many deadspots which screwed her blinks completely. Ofc that is something that survivors would need to know to play against such a killer but we cant have that right?
Just remove everything resembling skill for survivors and be a better lab rat with memorized routes.
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Despite the slight hyperbole type slant to your post you raise some good points.
'nurse had many deadspots which screwed her blinks completely.'
Yes, there were dead spots and survivors could use them and it persisted for sometime. But the devs actively worked to remove those dead spots and nurse mains figured they could come at those dead spots from different angles to remove them. There was never a 100% safe place EVER from nurse blink. So its a mute point resolved over time.
'Survivors had to rely on skill'
What your referring to here is 'mindgaming' the nurse, because if a nurse knew where you would move next, you'd take a hit. By that logic you could have left REAL infinites in the game because my strat for them as a killer was to mindgame the survivors. So just to make sure you're consistent in your argument, not just picking and choosing.
'Just remove everything resembling skill for survivors and be a better lab rat with memorized routes.'
Then you show your true hand. Another upset nurse player that final got their due.
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You cant mindgame infinites.... thats why they were infinites ... bruh.
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Watching good nurses still cleanly 4k with 3+ gens left makes laugh at threads like this. The only people who want the old nurse back are the people who got spoiled by her, since she literally damaged your ability to play other killers after a certain point lol
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lol
Were you even around when REAL infinites were a thing? Apparently you don't know that infinites would break down if you got more than one survivor into them. But hey, that's l2p ;)
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Ok grandma, thanks for the lesson.
Still doesnt change the fact that the killer couldnt mindgame those infinites.
Hoping that another survivor wouldnt stay the hell away from the terror radius sounds like such a controllable counterplay for the killer.
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'Ok grandma, thanks for the lesson.'
haha someones triggered.
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Truly the pinnacle of game design.
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its not even about how bad she is now or not, its about that nurse is unfun to play. so i demand the old base kit back thanks.
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Not sure why we're going back to discussing how the nurse was back when the game was released, most of this thread is about that the cooldowns that are being added to killers are making them unfun to play.
Especially for nurse who's having to deal with cooldowns plus fatigue making her add on dependent (and even with the add ons she's no fun)
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@coppersly @OmegaXII @Mr_K @PickCollins @edgarpoop
maybe we can format the feedback suggestion like this and pray?
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I've made the suggestion that the cool down be activated on swings, hit or miss, instead of blinking and the length would be determind by how many chain blinks you made for the hit.
I don't know how I could of put it any better than that. I don't believe they will revert the basekit changes. What I can hope for is a better implementation with the Devs goals in mind.
As she stands now, the cool down is breaking up chases and removing any excitement from them.
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I can sometimes 4k 5 gen with killers like Pig, Leatherface, and trapper. Your example means literally nothing.
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Damn, we need to nerf Pig again.
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@Peanits are you guys still looking at the nurse's basekit?
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I was thinking about this but I doubt it would do much.
My guess is they're responding to it because Legion has been a huge mess for so long and it looks good to say "we'll send this over." Will these ever amount to real change? Maybe. Probably not.
With Nurse not only is it way more recent but also way less problematic in scale since she can still function (very poorly.) There just aren't enough people for them to care and it wasn't nearly the mess Legion was/has been so yeah, I'm prepared to do a long wait if it ever even happens at this point.
Another good suggestion. Too bad it'll be ignored :(
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"Why was this poor man banned?"
Bhrv lost PickCollins' business going forward.
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Yeah I'm with you
This would work and make her more fun again whilst still having her be "nerfed"
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As a former Nurse main I agree. Her fatigue time was her cooldown but the devs decided to put a cooldown on top of another cooldown. Imo she's just not fun to play anymore, she's still strong, she's still viable but the fact that she has a 'double/triple cooldown' she's just not fun to play anymore. The CD ruined her map and chase pressure. The devs need to undo Nurse and go back to the drawing board with. I would keep her original basekit, but the way her add-ons are now make it seem like the devs left a 2yr old in charge of her add on rework
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If i'm not wrong, I remembered someone did that during PTB feedback..
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Where are these nurses you speak of?
The only game play i have seen has been ptb footage (throw that out instantly) and against potato survivors who group up so much that they activate infectious fright and run in straight predictable paths.
Not to mention nobody uses nurse without add-ons.
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all of her addons are so weird now and don't fit her at all. I didn't mind fatigue at all and I would rather them make it longer then rework her.
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You guys are honestly still complaining... Nurse IS the best killer still, no other way around it. The cooldown isnt even that long, you just need to be more precise and careful with your blinks.
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That's not the problem people have with the cooldown. Its that playing her is far more BORING due to the increased downtime. The increased downtime also means that its far more punishable to play Nurse, so players learning her is bound to give up faster.
The cooldown on Blink never should have happened. Everyone wanted an add-on rework but Behavior outright ignores what the community thinks.
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We're providing feedback and thoughts on how the base kit could be changed instead.
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Deadspots still exist in the game and you do not need a place to be 100% safe that shouldn't be the case in a game such as this as you do not need to have it just to use it in a chase. The point stands has to do with experience.
Also no this has nothing to do with infinites while there are no infinites in the game any longer there are still hilarious bad loops in the game commonly referred to as "god loops". They still exist in the game. You seem to be confused what a tactic is and what a strategy is, you do not have a strategy for those but a tactic. There is nothing you can actually really do as they are so safe that you will waste a huge amount of time no matter whether the killer decides to "mindgame" (what do you mean by mindgaming those? hoping that survivors never look back and are so bad that they do not see the big counterrotation?) i would like to see that.
Nice tactic hoping that the other player is dumb.
Actually I play mostly survivor but nurse
iswas the only killer to actually keep the pace up for a set group of people who are not braindead. Yeah my true hand is that I dislike the fact that I do not like to no longer or rarely see the killer anymore. Also my steamprofile is filled with survivors commenting how they enjoyed the match, you know having a fun game for everyone. That was another great thing about the nurse, you didnt have to play optimal and "rush" for a kill and could play fair. People enjoyed that on both sides, but with this rework this is no longer the case and survivors do have 0 fun at least that is the feedback what i get from people and it is my biggest complaint about the state the killer is in. Why? Well the punishment for missing blinks is quite severe thus you will use your ability as efficient as possible. F being fair, let them die on first hook, such fun, much wow.This also has to do with bad survivors and this was always the case but hey lets act as if every survivor in red ranks is a good player 🤣 also lets ignore that most people stated multiple times that the very reason why they die most is not due to op killers but due to dumb teammates. This is why people like me remove this factor completely and play with a group of people.
Also you might want to actually bother to try to understand what was written before you make really dumb assumptions about statements while it is clear that you havent read the complaints at all.
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‘Deadspots still exist in the game’
Yes, just look at the new map for a recent addition. What you seem to be complaining about is bugs. Which is something that you can’t blame survivors on lol. There’s bugs that negatively affect survivors too. Welcome to DBD. The devs will fix it, and if they don’t I see it as more the limits of their engine. Your point is still mute. Accept it or find a happy place somewhere else.
‘What do you mean by mindgaming’
Bit disappointed you won’t work with me on this one because I think you do know what I mean. Especially if you play nurse. It means getting the survivor to commit to something that ultimately is to their detriment. Go on the wiki for some DBD killer plays if you’re still not sure what that means.
‘Actually I play mostly survivor’
No I don’t think you do, or if you do there’s a context to it like you’re new to the game or you were a killer main but started to play survivor more recently. Because your posts indicate that. Until you explain that context, I’m just going to have to call you out on that.
‘I do not like to no longer or rarely see the killer anymore’
You know what’s funny is that I do enjoy playing against nurse but its more in the context of an average nurse. A nurse that hits some of there blinks but not all. It’s against a good nurses that makes for a boring game, that you feel like you’re in an open field, running in a straight line.
But that’s the core issue, hoping the devs can moderate that because they can’t. Hoping the nurse is average, hoping the nurse won’t play sweaty and won’t proximity camp and tunnel. Because there’s nurses like that out there. You sound like you would be a fair killer and I’m sure you do make for good games, but the nurse is broken and sweaty killers ruin it for everyone.
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Yeah so explain to me how you mindgame the incredible safe god loops that still exist in the game vs good survivors. I really just wanna see that. But you simply can not do it that is the point of those loops which still remain in the game.
Why would I blame deadspots on survivors? I just literally tell survivors to use them as they are fair use.
I don't care what you think of or about me, I am bored with my friends of this game. The devs do not even recognize swf as a problem and how easy you can outplay most killers as is. Their community managers say "just goofing around with friends" well most nurse players also sucked and this shown via the stats published several times. I dislike a double standard when it comes to balancing. Same guy btw replied to me stating, there are indeed games where he couldn't have done anything better and still loses. This is almost admitting the problem at hand but not entirely.
No worries running in a straight line is a very solid and effective counterplay to nurse right now, literally run to the nearest LoS blocker. Adjust angle and keep running, what happens is the nurse either commits to tryin to predict which always ends in a fail and thus every nurse player will blink to the LoS blocker and not be able to keep up unless certain addons used.
Sweaty killers do ruin it but the problem is why they are sweaty i doubt that most people would play the way they do as they have barely anytime left to do what they should "make an entertaining game for the entity" thus the objectives get rushed be it via gens or kills doesnt matter and it makes for a not so enjoyable experience. Survivors do need something new, holding m1 isn't entertaining thus adjusting gen speeds doesn't help they need a new objective, new mechanics.
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‘the devs do not even recognize swf as a problem’
Quick history lesson:
SWF wasn’t in the game at release. But human beings, being the cleaver adaptive entities that they are wanted to play with their friends in a game that had coop online elements (surprise!?). The devs had designed the game around soloq, so what happened? LOBBY SIMULATOR. That’s right friends would join lobbies looking for other friends and wait in the lobby to see if their friend would join and if they didn’t before the timer ended, they’d leave and repeat this process. The end result was a game of lobby simulator that took longer than the 4v1 game. It was bad for Twitch streamers, killers complained about it and survivors wanted to play with their friends.
It was a huge miscalculation on the devs behalf for something that is so obvious in hindsight, hence SWF was born and the devs have been compensating ever since. Infinites gone, bloodlust added, entity blocker added, vaulting/map nerfs, pallet nerf/reduction, increase ‘one-shot’ mechanics etc etc. It’s a huge list.
The devs DO KNOW SWF IS A PROBLEM that’s why the game has been on the trajectory it has been for so long. But I feel like were back at your experience in this game because your statement makes your bias clear to me.
Because the REAL people punished here? SOLOQ SURVIVORS
‘how you mind game god loops’
Well I’m not sure how willing you are (or I am for that matter) to get into the nuance of this because generally while I appreciate it’s frustrating to encounter they always typically break down, especially against a good killer. Add to that recent BL nerfs, never mind an ENTIRE LIST of nerfs to survivor surviving mechanics and I’m really just left asking what more do you want?
So unless you want to get specific then I’m just left saying , yes, if you’re a good killer you can mind game it and if you can’t leave it and go after someone else and if your hex:ruin 5 gennies are still up ######### are you even complaining about.
‘but the problem is why they are sweaty’
For all your points I still see regular games that result in a 4k with 5 gennies up and survivors finishing with 3k, 4k, 5k BP etc. My only real response is that sometimes killers want a quick game, some killers think its funny to screw over survivors over and the game lets them do it.
‘Survivors do need something new..... A new objective, new mechanics’
Agree.
Totems weren’t there at release and Pig along with Legion added new mechanics to slow the game down. But Legion has been a disaster, since release. I’m not going to get into why but only point out that on steam the Legion DLC has a mixed rating compared to others that typically have a Very/Mostly positive rating.
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I don't need a history lesson on how that mode came to be, on a sidenote, they always claimed it was intended to be made in the first place but that at release they had to decide between kyf / swf and went with kyf because they do know that in this time and age you can not make a game like that without the possibility to have people play with their friends.
I think the biggest problem for SOLOQ survivors is due to the rank system, it is significantly easier to rank up as survivor where as a killer (game being balanced around the 2k) you know where the pips leave you at a certain rank. This leads to bad teammates and at least for me is the very reason why I do not play soloq, i detest to play with people who are unable to hit hex ruin skillchecks and have very bad decision making.
As for the god loops, i just wanted you to acknowledge that you have to run them because many of them are in places which you can easily reach from lots of places on the map and you have to accept that this just wastes your time. Sure running for another survivor is a possibilty but for the sake of argument you should assume they are all equally skilled so when you find a new survivor he will go to the loop as well.
The problem that you see is heavily related to the one that I explained earlier or at least my view on things. Friends of mine are willing to play soloq, while we hang out in discord, you know i watch them and do not know why exactly they want to pull up with it. However these matches are part of the game, mistakes lead to such, you will have such beatdowns or whatever you may want to call it in every game.
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So much nonsense in this thread. If a nurse does well, we blame it on bad survivors who "run in straight lines" and get hit. If a nurse does poorly, it's because having a 2 second CD between double blinks is too much, and the counterplay to nurse is to just "run away in a straight line" to make distance. I'd say the goalposts were being moved constantly, but in actuality there aren't any, because the people who need nurse to be broken can't be happy with any change.
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I read the thread. It's a garbage fire, full of suggestions that I disagree with. If the devs chose to give her power a buff, the power with a near-infinite skill ceiling, making her easier to play and stronger for everyone, that would be an absurd mistake.
The nurse is good, and strong, and gets results. If you don't like how she plays, that's a shame, but there are like 15 other killers you could play. She doesn't need to be changed, the diapers half this thread are wearing do.
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The new Nurse makes even Otz look like a baby killer lmao. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/518788655?t=02h06m14s
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