Why do the Dev's keep dodging gentimes?
Answers
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This is really positive. The problem I've always had with ruin is that it can give me an undeserved win if it takes a long time to find or effectively causes a loss when it gets cleansed immediately. It's almost impossible to balance across that range. Once it is gone, fixing gen times will be so much easier. They WILL fix the gen times.
It reminds me of the Balanced Landing nerf. If they didn't remove its secondary effect, every new map would have to be balanced both with and without balanced landing.
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I'm sorry, but are you joking? Because SWF is one of the worst things for a Killer to go against. Nobody is saying we want survivors to stand around and just take the beating. We're tired of being Gen-Rushed to hell and back, having someone literally tail behind you to unhook making sure to have BT or DS ready, body block with all 3 to stop a hook, then all group and heal instantly. How about you actually go PLAY killer at higher ranks and come back and say this again. I'll admit that not every SWF is some kind of gods of the game, but a vast majority are the ones who will make sure you do not enjoy the game, then proceed to be toxic post-game.
You say there is nothing wrong with the game and we should just play it. Sure, let's play killer where we can't get anything done because 3 gens just went off in 1 minute because you all decided to bring in Purple toolboxes and BNP's. Now, before you get the idea I'm a 'Killer Main', I am not. I play both equally, and lately, playing Killer in anyway is not fun and it's turning me away from the game. I play this game to enjoy myself, not to become frustrated within 5 minutes and just walk away for a week, only to return, and repeat the process. This is the issue with the game right now, and too many survivor mains refuse to see it from a killer perspective.
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I like how the dev answer isn't accepted
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One good advice for next. Write it down to developers notes. I think you would prevent a lot of anger if you write it immediately and not now. If you say that you are reworking ruin to look at gen times, it will be much better then reasoning this rework with "frustrating" gameplay of new survivors.
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Now that you mention a percentage any chance we could have perk statistics released? Pretty please?
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What do you think about the idea of starting games with a debuff on gen speed. Actions like the killer hooks a survivor or a gen is repaired removes a part of this debuff until the gen speeds are back to normal.
This would result in slowing down the start of the game, but leaving the endgame as it is. Additionally to that it is more rewarding for survivors to finish the first gens together instead of each repairing their own gen.
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SWF can no longer manipulate matchmaking, as matchmaking bases it around the highest rank survivor in the group rather then the average. If a rank 1 survivor is bringing a rank 20 into the game, they are bringing that rank 20 into a red game. The rank 20 is more harmful to his own team then they are to the killer (unless the rank 20 is a smurf).
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Smaller maps also gives the killer more time to pressure the gens. So the survivor don't get more '' total work uptime ''. If the map is big like most of them and have imbalanced loops, then the survivors can work the gens no problem, while the killer is chasing someone else. so I'll stand by my point - genspeeds are fine, but most of the maps are not.
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This is just an estimation from my experience, but I would say Hex:Ruin covers up about 1-2 minutes on average per game. It can be zero if the map has bad totem placements and it can also be entire match. The odd chance that it lasts entire match is when all or most of the team decides to look for ruin and fail to find it, so eventually potato survivors figure out that working through it would been faster. This is also where some people report that "I did 4-5 generators" in 1 game, it comes from that. Normally speaking, the killer should win in such situations for free, though the killer can fail and you can make a comeback. This is also why i'm sure when most people read the post, it was a bit shocking to listen to someone say "Hex:Ruin is a late game perk" because that's precisely why other hex:totem perks are not used at all. they don't make it to the end game in the first place.
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Gen times are fine. Stop complaining about non-issues.
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Ok I get that about toxic SWF teams but there are killers out there that is just as toxic before during and after the game. When survivors cry about face camping, tunneling, and slugging.... killer mains say the same thing "just learn to play the game". YOUR right I don't play killer but I do see things from a killer perspective as well yes I can see how SWF can be frustrating for a killer but so can doing a gen by yourself with or without a tool box or being targeted by the killer because you just got unhooked..... What Im saying is there are more things wrong with the game other than reworking perks and taking away from killers or survivors.
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Matchmaking doesnt work at all. Not only swf, it just doesnt
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If you know red rank killers are using it, then you'd know that gen speed can be really fast, even with ruin and most games it doesn't even last longer than a minute. But when it does, it can be the difference between winning and losing cause the survivors waste time looking for it, when with the new ruin, why would they ever need to look for it?
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I don't agree at all, you can still patrol gens because if they're finding the gas they're going to need to bring it to the gens to fill them up.
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Actually it's like when Riot removed Kleptomancy and didn't change Ezreal to make up for it, specifically so they could see the magnitude of the impact first.
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Thats why you change BOTH in a single update. Not the "troublesome" perk before the update, which will take a year for it to arrive at the very least.
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Yeah that would be true if there were killers on red ranks but surely you will be vs a rank 9 killer
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Difference is, we don’t need to wait to see what happens when you play without Ruin against decent Survivors because we already do; that’s why people run Ruin to begin with.
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Dude, the problem is that we killers don't necessarily trust you'll follow through on that after the nerf.
Like when all charge times were supposed to be buffed the 15% that Tinkerer added when that perk was changed and you guys just never did it and everyone forgot. We'd har far more trust and confidence about what's happening to ruin if you'd kept that promise.
Also your data collection methodology should be subject to more in house scrutiny IMO because it seems so oddly disconnected from people's experiences.
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Some games on console can block party chat, I don't know why they don't try
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not a difference. They could have instead looked at the players that don't use klepto. But they didn't
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Then they should have.
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that makes sense actually, even if we don't have to forget that RUIN is an HEX, I mean, me and many others that play since 2016 (maybe early 2017 for me) learned to play and get good with RUIN on, that perk taught us to hide, get better in skillchecks, look for totem and even learn how to hold the killer longer.
Now ofc ruin has become necessary for low mobility killers in high ranks, we re going to have killers like trapper,clown, myers and bubba just disappear at high ranks, and it's a sin.
My question is, new kids can't do like us? learn to become good thru a more challenging game?
If an update of ruin was needed, it was not by replacing it with a perk that simply can't do nothing good, and especially nerfing it before assuring that gen rush would not make the game unfun, resulting in a deep unbalance untill a solution will be found, and at the risk to lose many players before it happens.
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Thanks to all replies on this thread. It means alot. I hope I see some changes but I'll still be playing In the fog. See you out there!
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I feel like they should keep their promise on aiding killers against SWFs like they promised long ago...but its nothing but empty promises.
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You have to
removechange everything that can affect gen times from the killer side, so new survivors do not have a frustrating match and you can look into those gen times.Are you sure you can look into gen times when ruin will just be replaced with PGTW/Dying Light/Thana? Just to make sure, you better change them into something so utterly useless like new ruin.
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You realize that 80% of killers are now just going to run Ruin/Surv or Corrupt Intervention, right?
At some point you have you realize that killers are relying on these things that help at the start of a game against generators for a reason. So you're going two have perks that are still hiding what you want to see.
Did you bother looking at the average statistics for the 20% of people who do not run these perks? Gen completion times, average kill rates, stuff like that? I'm pretty sure that's a decent sample size for you. How did those games without Ruin go? Even ones without Pop.
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Ah yes, because 80% of red rank killers using ruin because of how fast gen go, huge unnecessary maps, low mobility killers, clearly dosen't show that their is a problem with something....nah it couldn't be that surely
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im sorry, but isnt the simple fact that more than 80% of the high rank playerbase uses the exact same perk and sees it as a "mandatory killer perk" proof enough that something might be wrong there?
like, even with old ruin there was an constantly ongoing debate about gens being done too fast - and ive seen sooo many people agreeing to that. it is really surprising to me that you didnt see that.
again:
i support these changes, but i can not support the time they get implemented. you should have done something about gen speed first.
it doesnt even have to be overall genspeed, but early game gen speed. earlygame is what ruin was used for, earlygame is where killers have literally no map pressure and survivors have all cards in their hands. they have a full team, they have all the pallets and windows, the killer hasnt been able to get a snowball going on yet, etc.
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I just wonder, could not you guys check the actual matches without ruin to find out where the problem was before nerfing a perk that (sadly) right now determines the balance (and fun) of a big amount of players?
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You have things very confused, you are looking at it in the wrong order entirely.
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I forgot about this! Thank you!
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That would be nice -.-
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I enjoy how 80% of this thread is just Peanits getting owned by people pointing out obvious flaws in the dev's logic
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