Pop, NOED and other perks on high tier killers.
I understand why Pop and NOED exist, and I don't think they're unnecessary perks on most killers. But against the top tier killers, they become too strong. It is widely agreed that the counter to NOED is to do bones, but against a good Nurse, Spirit, Billy or Freddy you simply don't have the time to do bones against them. You have to hold M1 on gens any time you aren't being chased just to have a chance at winning the game. So guess what happens? If you waste time doing bones against them, you lose the game because you wasted too much time not doing gens. If you hold M1 on gens, you get hit with NOED because you didn't do totems.
The same thing applies to Pop. If it's a good Nurse, Spirit, Billy or Freddy then they can just pop everything almost constantly and no one can get gens done against them. I understand the need for Pop and NOED on killers like Pig, Legion, Clown, Leatherface, Doctor and so on but on high tier killers it's just too oppressive.
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The thing is, the perk is as powerful as the survivors make it. Not even just doing the bones, but if you see the killer has NoeD, you don't stay to get the save, you get out.
Unless the team is over altruistic, NoeD has the killer get one extra kill which in most situations they didn't deserve.
It definetly needs a nerf to be honest, it should probably reward you for playing well rather than rewarding you for failing, like giving you a token each time you hook a survivor or something.
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I think all the killers and perks are in a pretty fair spot right now. There's not really any setup that will carry you every game.
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Pop is countered by having a long chase and tag teaming gens, if you know the killer has pop, do this. Prove thyself is about to be hella meta with the current pop meta on killers.
Lets assume it's a nurse:
- 2 people on a gen - 40 seconds
- Finding a survivor - 5 seconds at a bare minimum
- Hitting survivor once (assume 2 blinks and recovery) - about 10 seconds
- Hitting survivor again - about 10 seconds
- Process of hooking a survivor (pickup, etc...) - 10 seconds
- Finding the actual gen - 5 seconds at a bare minimum
So it only just evens out at 40 seconds each side, and this is assuming extremely unrealistic circumstances for the nurse. Gens will be tag teamed and will be done long before you can get to them. The only reason people use pop is to soft counter the solo genning which can end a game in 4 minutes.
As for NOED, high tier killers would rather have 4 perks the entire game, other than 3 perks and another that could work. In fact the things that make these killers strong is their 4 perk synergy, such as spirit - Stridor, BBQ, Pop, Sloppy. Trade out even one of them perks and shes weak in a category. BBQ? No tracking. Pop? Bad pressure. Stridor? Weaker in chases. Sloppy? Nothing to keep survivors injured.
In strong builds like these it's not worth running NOED, as these 4 perk synergies are arguably better than NOED. They're also a lot more fun to play with.
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I don't think DS, Adrenaline, or Exhaustion perks are necessary for survivors, but are ran by a majority of people in red ranks and people will defend it as the only way to survive against tunneling/camping killers.
I don't run NOED as a high tier killer cause I don't need it. Whether or not I run Pop is build dependent.
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How else do you counter camping and tunneling? The reason they have such strong counters is because they are very strong.
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It takes 10-15 seconds to cleanse a totem. There are 5 totems per map, and 4 survivors to do them, so the "not enough time" argument doesn't work. Plus, survivors used to be able to do all of this stuff while the old Ruin was slowing down the gens. Cleansing totems is far quicker. Survivors need to get out of the "I don't want to do bones" mindset. I do 2-3 per match. If players just spread the word to other players to cleanse totems, rather than just calling for nerfs, the task of cleansing totems wouldn't feel so daunting.
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but let me guess DS,BT,DH etc. is okay on really good survivors? pop is fine and so is noed, i dunno why there are so many noed posts i hardly ever see the perk used let alone worry about it, totems are easy points, if you have inner strength easy heals and pop the killer needs to get a down, pop does 25% progress, full gen is 80seconds so pop can remove 20seconds.. so using math the survivor needs to lead on a chase for 15seconds then get picked up and carried to a hook while 1 person does a gen. thats 1 person btw there are 2 others on the map on other possible gens, not to mention the killer then has to walk to the gen to even kick it so all it does is slow the game down slightly unless your team isnt doing gens... or you can do gens together and fast so he cant even use pop
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Somebody did not use their critical thinking skills before posting a reply.
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yeah youre right, 1 person doing the objective for 15seconds while someone is getting chased is too hard. i mean its not on survivors to do their objectives or be better at running the killer around it must be the killer perks too OP. my bad.
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You are comparing perks on something that is consistent (Some survivors can't just decide to teleport or run across the map with a 1 shot) vs perks on Killers with unique powers.
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Pop :(
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youre talking the extreme, not many killers have insta downs that doesnt take time to activate or build up. sure iri huntress is a pain im not saying that but when you look at spirit she doesnt have an insta down, yes shes a strong killer but she is slow unless using her power, she can be looped and tricked. of course i look at the constant/average or it would be stupid, looking at the extreme doesnt balance the game or perks as they arent common games. maybe the issue isnt the perks but the actual survivors, pop and noed have been in the game unchanged for years and never been complained about... im guessing people are either new or ranking up too fast beyond their skill level, thats not being mean but i see red rank survivors that struggle leading chases and are scared of doing gens or just missing skill checks. but all of that doesnt make the killer or its perks OP it just means that survivor has stuff to learn. red ranks awhile back had a non nerfed spirit with ruin, pop etc. and could escape... too often people think they should be escaping every match or be able to lead on a chase for 2 odd mins, i showed how pop wasnt op through simple maths, someone above stated 5 totems 10seconds each with 4 survivors... theres plenty of time and ability to play around the perks or beat them. games arent meant to be over within 3mins and thats why defensive perks exist.
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Wasn't this thread ABOUT the killers that have insta downs that don't need any build up or those that do well without them?
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NOED: As others have said, you are better off using another perk and not banking on the endgame. In my experience as a red rank killer and survivor, NOED rarely makes a significant difference. It usually means the killer gets 1-2k unless the group is very greedy.
Pop: It is a stong perk to be sure, but I can tell as a Nurse main that it isn't always worth it. Tracking is vital with Nurse, so letting a survivor break LOS and gain distance to pop the gen has consequences.
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