Don't Nerf Spirit! Nerf Stridor Instead!
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I main Spirit and I never use Stridor! Whispers is much much more useful. Besides you can track their blood.
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oh sure, let's buff the perk that makes you completely immune to a major consequence of being hit with no limitations.
If anything, iron will needs to be nerfed so there's a time limit on not making sound, like that Yui perk that prevents bleeding for 2 minutes only. as if we can actually see blood with these graphics lol.
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Thats my point though. If „some mindgame potential“ as you say (which is a stretch by the way since a good survivor is not gonna get hit at those) is good enough then so is Spirits phase, because the survivor also has „some mindgame potential“ against her when she phases.
Autohaven which is a survivor favourite precisely because of those short loops is the perfect example of why spirit is so popular. If a normal Killer plays on that map all he can is run in a circle as the survivor mirrors his movement since he is visible the entire time, until the pallet is dropped break it move to the next unmindgamemable pallet.
alot of killers view that as silly, because they don‘t have any options at loops like those and the survivor isn‘t displaying any skill either. Its very similar to god loops in that sense, but on a much smaller scale. Spirit gives a killers a chance to enjoy playing even at loops like that.
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I hope you realise I'm not talking about the survivor experience only. Playing Spirit is just as boring as playing against her because there is absolutely no challenge or anything to learn with her. If you're happy with the way Spirit is you're happy with not really caring about what a survivor does, or being challenged in the one aspect of the game that's actually fun which is the interactions between killer and survivor. Hag and Deathslinger are the same. These three are so unbalanced in the 1v1 that it's so damn boring playing as them because you know you're going to win every chase no matter what the survivor does.
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Spirit is never getting reworked and likely will never even be touched again, you guys need to just learn how to play against her lol. I really hate saying this because it sounds rude but: gitgud, seriously she isn't that hard to beat.
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You ask why should 1 perk completely counter another...yet you want iron-will to completely counter stridor. As it stands, stridor DOESN'T completely counter iron-will. The iron-will user is still quieter than normal, so theyre still getting benefit from their perk.
Beyond the interaction between these 2 perks though, theres actually PLENTY of examples of perks countering each other. Calm spirit counters infectious fright for example. Soul survivor and distortion counters every aura reading perk. Inner strength counters anti-healing perks like coulrophobia and sloppy butcher.
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Stridor counters iron will, not the other way around
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I hope you realise I'm not talking about the Killer experience only. Playing as survivor on Autohaven is just as boring as playing as killer because there is absolutely no challenge or anything to learn. If you're happy with the way unmindgamemable loops are you're happy with not really caring about what a killer does, or being challenged in the one aspect of the game that's actually fun which is the interactions between killer and survivor. Unmindgamemable loops on other Maps are the same. They are so unbalanced in the 1v1 that it's so damn boring playing at them because you know you're going to win every chase no matter what the Killer does.
See, I can do it too.
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Its not a crutch perk its a iron will counter
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I hope you realise I'm not talking about the Killer experience only. Playing as survivor on Autohaven is just as boring as playing as killer because there is absolutely no challenge or anything to learn. If you're happy with the way unmindgamemable loops are you're happy with not really caring about what a killer does, or being challenged in the one aspect of the game that's actually fun which is the interactions between killer and survivor. Unmindgamemable loops on other Maps are the same. They are so unbalanced in the 1v1 that it's so damn boring playing at them because you know you're going to win every chase no matter what the Killer does.
See I can do it too.
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Iron Will needs a counter and Stridor is that counter
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"Why should one perk completely counter another?"
They say after they suggest a perk to completely counter another.
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Spirit is challenging for me to use. Why! Because your sacrificing one of your senses to track a survivor (I don't play Spirit with Stridor) and with how broken sounds can be that's even a greater challenge!
If you're happy with the way Spirit is you're happy with not really caring about what a survivor does, or being challenged in the one aspect of the game that's actually fun which is the interactions between killer and survivor.
How is it fun having to use the same tactic that 90% of the killer roaster has to use to deal with looping? What's so challenging about using the same tactic that you've been doing for 1k+ hours just so that survivor's can have the same advantage in a loop? There you go focusing on the 1v1 mindset and not the 1v4
Your right! I don't care about what survivor's do. Why? Most survivor's know the things that annoy killer's but they insist on doing. Why? Because it's fun for 'THEM' and they don't consider killer's at all. This is why when I play survivor I don't run or do things that annoy the killer
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Nobody touches my Nurses Stridor
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Spirit can run aura perks but can't see auras while phasing.
Wouldn't the easiest solution just be to disable Stridor for Spirit while she is phasing? The change wouldn't affect other killers negatively, and if there's suddenly a huge drop in its usage then maybe in the future BHVR will rework the perk to be better all-around. But it seems silly to change a perk entirely when the one thing people are complaining about is a very specific usage case.
I'm not saying this should be done; I'm just saying this is a more reasonable request than outright nerfing a pretty lackluster perk.
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I completely agree, I have long wanted to write about this. Why not make an Iron Will a perk which triggering by non-shift walking, or crouching. Scratch marks don't work properly it this game, let's be honest. Really tired of 2-4 Iron wills in every trial by Nurse. It's amazing to play agains full SWF with 4 IW, 4 DS (DH, UB, BT etc) and one plunderer who looted the key (to not let me pick Franklin in lobby) - only option is facecamp lol. And most part of spirit players uses Stridor - so that perk isn't a counter against them. The chase is immediately lost after the Nurse's fatig sometims and no way to find someone except use Bloodhound every game. But who will use WI counterperks on footers which needs a additional perks to catch.
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For all the naysayers, here's the bottom line and you need to get it straight in your heads . . .
If as a survivor you have to run a specific perk to counter a killer (Iron Will) and then that killer can counter your counter with a perk of her own (Stridor), that is a problem. No killer should require a perk to counter and that is especially true when the perk you use to counter her can be countered as well. Stridor either needs to not work on Iron Will or the Spirit + Stridor combo needs to be banned. Period.
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Iron Will is op by the way, but depends how people use it... And iron Will is the counter against stridor by the way and it works well.
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Stridor just needs fixed/nerfed so there's no sound with Iron Will.
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i think stridor should just be disabled during phasewalk. It's overall a very bad perk and doesn't deserve a nerf, especially since a nerf in this game is the equivalent of multiple shots to the chest via a Glock 18
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Iron Will is the counter to making injured noises as a survivor. Stridor is the counter to Iron Will.
(Stridor makes injured survivors 50% louder-it's additive, not a multiplier. Normal survivors have an injured volume of 100%; against a killer running Stridor, they have a volume of 150%. Iron Will survivors have an injured volume of 0%; against a killer running Stridor, they have a volume of 50%.)
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Or make spirit hear grunts 50% less in her phasing.
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Stridor is a staple perk for arguably the best killer in the game. It's not some weak helpless thing you can victimize.
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Exactly my thoughts
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Or maybe killers aren't completely helpless and all the crying killer mains are wrong instead of the actual statistics and experts? Could be...
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We have iron will aaand then stridor counters it.
Its all started with how stridor counters iron will, so im kinda right. I don't want one perk to counter another. Its not iron will that counters stridor, its other way around
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I think Stridor and Iron Will are fine, Spirit is the real issue.
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You'll also be the first spirit that you can actually escape from in chase, congrats!
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Yes. But i don't think they will do anything to spirit in near time.
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It doesn't make sense to nerf Stridor either :/
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We can make it more like a Iron Will rebalance. It doesn't matter. If i don't want to make a sound when injured, i take Iron Will and expect to be silent like a dead man.
Stridor should amplify sounds, not break them.
Its just annoying to hear yourself moaning when you have Iron Will.
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Because it's the only way to make sure you don't get countered by a single perk. No killer should get completely countered by 1 perk.
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stridor on spirit is ass
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Incorrect
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if you have a good game sense already you wont need stridor it will mess you up not being able to tell how far or close a survivor is and it is a waste of a perk slot
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The same way as if you don't run it, you'll get used to it and will learn how close they are with stridor. It will 100% remove her biggest counter every single game. It will be significantly harder, almost impossible to lose a spirit with stridor. It is much easier to find survivors with it equipped. You will be much stronger in a chase with it. Etc
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Outside of Spirit the only time Stridor is even used is to counter Iron Will which is always a meta/semi-meta perk. Nerfing Stridor to accomodate Iron Will is just deleting Stridor as a perk.
If anything they should just make injured noises be reduced by 50% for the Spirit while in phase, so that way Iron Will + Phase + Stridor = 0 noise, but she would still hear grunting when not phasing.
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i can track survivor with iron pretty easily with no stridor do you choose to get good or rely on a perk
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No, people want to nerf spirit because you cant tell when she phases, forcing you into a gamble where most of the time she wins. She can litteraly wait for you to run in her, or look at you go away and catch up in a mere 2 seconds, ans thats whats boring, shes the same to loop as any other killer when her power is on CD
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There is nothing skill based when your opponent doesnt have a fair chance yo outplay you.
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I'll just adjust my equalizer and volume settings...
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How well you personally perform in terms of tracking is completely irrelevant to the strength of a perk. That's like saying 'I can down people pretty well with nurse, therefore all chase perks are ass and a waste of a perk slot on her'
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The problem with Spirit is not Stridor, it is how she works. It is skill, more precisely, the lack of it. You hardly ever need to mind game or predict as a Spirit. Her map pressure is ok, but the whole guesswork that her power brings is not ok. Every single killer should have a way to counter them WITHOUT perks. You can avoid and disarm Trapper's Bear Traps even as a level 1, perkless survivor. You can crouch and avoid activating Hag traps, even as a level 1, perkless survivor. This thing should be true for every killer. At the moment, it is not true for Spirit, not like it should be for Freddy, who can pallet spam too much, not for LF, who should have 2 charges, not 3. But especially with Spirit. She is the least difficult killer in the entire game, specifically because of guesswork. You're hardly ever outplaying anyone, as a Spirit. It's survivors outplaying themselves, because they have to guess. Of course, killer mains love that and abuse her, but that is not healthy, nor should it stay as it is. Her power should be reworked, or be given a much longer cooldown maybe together with the inability to use it while in chase. She would still retain her map pressure and be able to surprise people, but her guesswork would be gone.
Post edited by Damarus on1 -
Survivors have nothing to do as of how they're designed.
If a character lacks any sort of counterplay in any game, it loses any purpose of playing against such character, don't you think?
If a survivor relies on luck rather than proper skill/map knowledge and efficiency, I'd say spirit is a problem and her whole purpose has broken the core concept of the game, hence why she needs to be reworked.
What you're saying is pretty much the equivalent of running in a straight line against a chainsaw killer, counterplay exists for the sole purpose of not feeling unfair to any of both sides.
Edit: Typo.
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A survivor perk should not counter a killer perk lol, and its not like stridor is a good perk so nerfing it makes no sense. Idk what your logic is
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Personally I’d make it where groans are non-directional while phasing as Spirit.
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