Why are survivors complaining about the DS nerf? It is still going to be an anti-tunnel perk
Ok, sure the killer can still slug you to avoid it, but would you rather be hooked or slugged and picked up? Being slugged means that your team can come and pick you up and the new DS will still allow you to avoid a hook state even if you are slugged.
Currently, DS allows you to have the protection of it even if you aren't being tunneled and while you work on objectives (generators and healing). Tell me, how you are being tunneled if you are working on a generator or healing?
The new DS will still keep the anti-tunnel part. ⁱᵗ ᵃˡˢᵒ ˢʰᵒʷˢ ᵘˢ ʰᵒʷ ᵐᵃⁿʸ ᵖᵉᵒᵖˡᵉ ᵈᵒⁿ'ᵗ ᵉᵛᵉⁿ ᵏⁿᵒʷ ʷʰᵃᵗ ᵗᵘⁿⁿᵉˡⁱⁿᵍ ᵃᶜᵗᵘᵃˡˡʸ ⁱˢ ᵇᵃˢᵉᵈ ᵒⁿ ˢᵒᵐᵉ ᵒᶠ ᵗʰᵉ ⁿᵉᵍᵃᵗⁱᵛᵉ ʳᵉˢᵖᵒⁿˢᵉˢ ᵗᵒ ᵗʰᵉ ⁿᵉʳᶠ *ᶜᵒᵘᵍʰ
As for jumping in a locker, I feel that this will no longer be much of a problem since if they work on a generator or heal they lose DS' protection, so it is fairer.
If you are upset with how DS was nerfed, I think it is safe to assume you probably relied on it way too much because "so many killers tunnel" right? I am being constructive here, but you don't need DS against a killer to do well against them, even if they tunnel you. If you know a killer will tunnel you the whole game, go ahead and use any resources necessary while your team does the remaining gens, and even if you die, you will still come out on top. It DOES take practice, but if you just use a perk all the time that can practically carry you and give you a second chance, how are you going to do well without it?
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Funny thing about this game.
Historically, the more killers get the nerfs they want, the less killers proportionally play the game.
This game used to be a lot tougher for killers, but back then there were too many killers and not enough survivors. Killers got all the nerfs they wanted. Brighter maps, brighter clothes, removal of palette vacuums, bloodlust, removal of most god loops, auto window blocking, Exhaustion nerf, Mettle nerf, BL nerf, DS nerf, another DS nerf, etc.
Yet somehow instead of improving the play experience for killers it actually made it worse.
Who knows why, but judging from the queues there are less and less killers playing the game compared to survivors.
So strictly speaking killers getting the nerfs they want might not actually be the right direction for this game.
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Because they liked abusing both Perks in the ways that are being cauterized. Talking about DS as an anti-tunneling Perk and OoO as just a fun Perk for a Solo was always just "cover" for how they were really being used by a SWF. I play both Killer and Survivor. While I play mostly Solo Survivor, I've done my time in a SWF and I know exactly what I'm talking about. These changes are a huge kick up the backside of some teams who base their entire strategy around abusing them.
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You have a point, and I feel many problems can be attributed to just plain map design for both sides. Ormond is a little more killer sided, but it can still suck since the map is so big. Autohaven is still strong, but it can spawn some pretty nasty dead zones for survivors.
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True, but I really do believe that some survivors just used it because they felt safe with it and couldn't figure out how to loop and be chased. However, by relying on it they never developed the proper skills to survive against a killer. Of course, this is a small minority and I feel that most players ran it just to play aggressively with it. But not everyone running it was out to get you and some used it just because they just weren't that good at survivor.
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Well, the good news for those Survivors is DS still works exactly the same for those people who aren't good at looping and need a Stun. The OoO change is good for those Survivors because individual Solos who took this Perk were doomed. Killers would tunnel them out with extreme prejudice. :) In short, the innocent don't suffer due to these changes at all. The only people whose strategy and tactics are upended are those who were using the Perks aggro.
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I’m happy about this.
The more they cry about DS change, the more it shows that how many people actually abuses it in current state.
Means this change needs to happen even more quick.
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I still think gen speeds are the main issue, the more you limit survivors the more this problem will continue to show itself until they're finally forced to address the elephant in the room.
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As a survivor main I would say I'm overall happy for this change. It would make the game fair and bridge the balance between survivors.
I have little concerns but I'm for the change. Plus its still really strong in the endgame and can still be used in lockers so I'm still satisfied.
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Can we for once stop calling Ormond big? It is right in the middle, a little bit above average:
Some other Maps which are bigger have never been called big.
It 100% became easier for Killers. But this also means that players, who are not good at the game, came to Red Ranks. So bad Killers will, occasionaly, get good Survivors (most Survivors are also not good either, but I feel Survivors adapt more than Killers), which means that people who should not be Red Rank will have hard games, despite the game being much easier for them than it used to be.
I really cannot understand how some people can say that the game is difficult or "the worst it has ever been for Killer". IMO the game became a little bit too easy for Killer.
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Ormond is killer-sided? It feels 100% survivor-sided to me.
Autohaven maps tend towards killer-sided. Especially after the recent updates, with only BloodLodge maybe being survivor-sided. Azrael's Rest is 100% killer-sided now.
Anyway, the evolution of this game has been interesting tos ay the least. I don't understand why there are less killers playing today. Or perhaps the number of killers hasn't changed; it's just that the game got more popular, and the new players are mostly survivor players. The game got a huge boost in playerbase last year and that's just going by Steam numbers. Playerbase doubled in 2020 compared to 2019 more or less on Steam, I'm sure PS4/Xbox numbers are similar.
Strictly speaking I think both DS and OOO needed nerfs/changed. It's for the good of the game. But the numbers and the balance of the playerbase just defy expectations.
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Yes, absolutely. Generators pop too fast and have too many ways to accelerate them. That is a basic problem in the overall game situation. The other is Solo versus Team. The experiences are entirely different and attempting to balance SWF with Perks is always going to fail because anything that slows down a SWF strangles a Solo. So in general, the following things would be an overall improvement:
- Adjust Generator repair speeds as well as basic regression speed when kicked to be a bit faster.
- Adjust OBJECTIVES for SWF, i.e. what they need to get the gates open to offset the 5th Perk (Comms).
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Yeah I made a thread a month ago or so about how this game is really about people looking for a good challenge. Gist is that people actually want the game to be challenging to the right degree, but that too easy was bad and too hard was also too bad. And overnerfing or overbuffing leads to the latter, and without a proper ranking system for matchmaking it never works out.
I got laughed off the board of course but I think you are probably right in saying that the game got too easy for killers and this ended up with them getting to red ranks where they are having a tough time against survivors who are too good for them. I myself am in red rank as survivor but I think I don't belong in red ranks, I see how real red ranks play and they are a league ahead of me in gameplay.
In the end this game needs a proper ranking system to fix the matchmaking, until then we will keep seeing weird stuff in the demographics, and nobody will ever really be happy.
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It's still the same but without the widespread abuse toxic survivors used it for. Bad survivors are why you can't have nice things. (I hope, but it's not final yet)
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Ehm no. I remember back the old times, when you were a red rank survivor, waiting in a long queue time until facing most likely a Hillbilly and sometimes Nurse. Back then the game was harder for killers and the killer player base most likely lower than now. What changed since then, that the overall playerbase got bigger and that many changes lead people to adapt more and play more efficient in general. Maybe the ratio kinda got screwed back then. But I remember also time when you had long killer queues like around the ghostface releases.
That ratio is mostly more of an up and down. Caused by all kinds of things. My survivor and killer queue times e.g. heavily depend on the time of the day. And it makes sense that the survivor ratio is higher in the evening hours, because that's the time when everybody is home, that only plays SWF. I honestly think even those current queue times are the most logical or natural for this game, if I think about it.
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I haven’t seen anyone complaining about the changes so
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I've barely seen any survivor mains complain about the nerf? Am I missing something here?
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The people who complain about the perk nerf do not understand why it was introduced into the game in the first place.
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Twitter is a actual ######### show
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Ah, that makes sense. I sometimes check the DBD Twitter acc and oh boy, some of the stuff people ask for in the replies... it's a whole different world lmao
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Because Survivor mains get upset when someone tries to tone down their chances of winning despite the fact that they have it too easy already. They're ok with killers getting nerfed, but when they get nerfed its different
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This has nothing to do with the Change or DBD, this is Twitter in general.
Yeah, a proper Ranking System would be nice. IMO it would already be enough to just make the Rank Reset more meaningful again so that not everyone and their mother is in Red Ranks after playing 4 games after Rank Reset. And then tweaking the Emblem System a little bit.
MAYBE MMR will help with that, but I have my doubts. In theory, if MMR is working, every game should feel like it is a challenge, since you get somewhat even opponents all the time. But as I said, I have my doubts.
I am Red Rank on both sides, but IMO I should not be Red Rank as Killer. But it is pretty rare that I run into Survivors who actually are a challenge, sometimes one Survivor is really good, but that does not help them if their team is going down like flies.
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They need to remove the timer and have it deactivate solely based on doing any progressive interaction. It isn't "anti-tunnel" if it runs out due to slugging or being chased for longer than a minute off hook, and killers who don't tunnel wouldn't have an issue with this.
Other than that, it's a very healthy change.
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Infallible logic, time ot bring old infinites back and remove all killers except first 3. That will make people play the killer role more as they'll have to be good again to win.
I heard there was really huge playerbase back in 2016-2017, amazing +- 20-30k players compared to poor 50k we have these days.
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Have you seen the forums lately?
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I actually don't really know. The maps are definitely more manageable than before though. Survivors can still win pretty easily if they are efficient and because the map is so big a lot of killers still have quite a bit of trouble.
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I've been on the forums practically all day since yesterday when the change was announced and 99% of the posts have been praise to the change, plus a lot of hype for the OoO proposed changes. Coming from both killer and surv mains. The very few complaints I observed came from survivors who didn't understand how the "healing" part of the change works, they thought that if a fellow survivor tapped to heal them for 1 sec DS would be gone. But when it was clarified to them that it does not work like this, they were ok with it.
If anything, there will always be people who complain, but I find it odd to make a post like all survs are complaining when most of them (us? Idk bc I play both roles) are okay with the nerf??? Unless this post was made because of the survs attitude in other social media, since someone pointed out that on Twitter there are a lot of survs complaining, which does not come as a surprise to me since the Twitter folk are....... let's just say they are very particular about how game balance works, lmao.
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yes it does he asked if people were actually complaining about it and I told him yes people are going apeshit over the change on Twitter
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Survivors would do nothing at all to prevent DS from deactivating. Good for killer, bad for rest of team.
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The forum posts themselves may be mostly positive, but some of the comments in the threads are very clearly against the changes.
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Yeah I've never understood that. But killers being in a much better position than before might not be the cause of that, i refuse to believe that so many killers are masochists. I think one big cause is that as years pass a bigger playerbase has grinded everything they can, and killers get BPs much faster.
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Same, but I think they should change it so the timer stops going down if the unhooked survivor is getting chased right after. Many times I got tunneled after the unhook and by the time I got downed the timer ran out already. If it was up to me the stun should last longer and the killer should and scratchmarks should disappear after the stun so the killer is punished a lot for his decision.
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Im not sure about extending the stun but being able to not leave scratch marks and blood trail during the 5 second stun could be good.
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Like I said, there will be people against it the same way that there's always people against anything that the devs come up with. The devs could announce an easier grind and some people would be like "but I like the current grind because it's tougher and it feels like you actually earned it" or whatever BS like that.
The general consensus about the DS change has been positive. It's the first time I see most killers and survivors agree about anything on these forums, well except maybe for the universal disliking the new UI.
And both killers and survs are even hyping the OoO proposed change!
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True, and the OoO change was also amazing.
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Because they will not be able to be invincible anymore while also progressing the game.
They will be invincible for 1 minute but be useless during that time OR, they wanna be useful but therefore they lose DS because they obviously aren't getting tunneled anymore.
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Because people will complain about not having their favorite toys anymore no matter how unfair it is towards anyone else.
Just look at Moris.
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That's because these nerfs never address the fundamental problem of the game for killers. The DS nerf is great, and a step in the right direction. But it doesn't change the fact that at high level play (tournaments are proof of this) there is 1 viable killer. And that is Nurse. EVERY OTHER KILLER, yes even the spirit, is NOT VIABLE at high level, competitive play. The fundamental problem is the ratio between gen speeds and chase time. Chases take too long, and gens go too fast.
And before someone says "But tournament play isn't common" yes, i understand that. But why should i bother playing a game to try and get better, when at the highest level, the game is stacked against me? What is the point of getting better? There isn't one. And because of that, players slowly bleed out.
The good news for devs is, at low levels of play, killer is way too powerful. So when new killer players come in, they have a great time. And it takes someone hundreds of hours before they get to the point that they realize the game is stacked against them. By then they have probably played, and paid for a lot of content. Either that, or by then they have made several friends playing the game, and now play SWF with them.
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I'd be ok with that.
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I haven't seen anyone be genuinely mad about the changes. Personally, I'm quite happy and excited for both. I think the biggest concern from some Survivor players moreso comes from what exactly some of the deactivation things will mean. (For example, while the general consensus right now seems to be that healing means healing another person/yourself, it's the question on if it will also deactivate because of perks like Second Wind or Inner Strength.)
The changes aren't bad, we just want to see exactly what that'll mean when running it.
(Though, I will say, I do kinda wish we would also get a change with these two to make it so there's always an obsession- but that's another discussion.)
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seems like a lot people dont know what actually "tunneling" means.
DS NEVER was a anti tunneling perk, never!
here is what a anti tunneling perk is.
DS is usable 2 times (since you cant get just tunneled one time per trail right?
DS will not run out as long in a chase with a killer (since you can just chase survivor for another 60 seconds and hook him again, does that make it "not tunnerling" nope.
that is a real anti-tunnel perk and not the crap what DS currently is or will become.
once again, DS never been a anti tunnel perk, ds also was never supposed to be a anti tunnel perk, from day 1 with lauries release it was supposed to be a "time waste" perk. but thanks for complains it gets changed again.
im wondering when devs will adress, VPN, dedi servers, huge hitboxes of survivors, maps being killers sided with the amount of unsafe loops, bloodlust still in the game even tho every where a dead zone, nerf of freddy, spirit, pyramid
a actual matchmaking etc etc..
but "devs are survivor sided" "pepelaugh"
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Its just a minority of survivors that are complaining. Like just look at the forum posts about it, no one really agrees with them, like even the most popular one has like 11 likes.
As a survivor main idc really, the things i do want is stuff like that freddy nerf.
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You are joking, right? You are telling me that right now, DS is not an anti-tunnel perk? You are telling me that a perk that discourages the killer from going after the same survivor is NOT an anti-tunnel perk?
Btw Freddy doesn't need a nerf. What he needs is just to have some sort of skill to his power. If you are awake, Freddy has no chase potential. Pyramid head is also not OP and doesn't need a nerf, maybe git gud?
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"discourages the killer form going after the same survivor" lul
are you playing in low ranks? every killer goes for the same person again, if he picks him up or just hit him to see if he has BT is another story.
a anti tunneling perk is what i told you already.
you can easily counter ds by just waiting infront of the slugged body, you can camp the locker if a survivor is inside it, you can take the DS since its just 5 seconds what a lot of people do, me included.
"freddy doesnt need a nerf" yep, while killers with the highest mobility need to run to the other side of the map and actually need to use their brain and move the character not to bump into something freddy needs to press one button to teleport to the other side.
a killer who has the ability to camp the hook without fearing BT, a killer who can spam the snares over and over again and bloodlust every single pallet.
Pyramid head : 115% killer who has a ranged ability and can just spam it, a killer who ignores every endgame perk, a killer who can bait the ranged ability but can immideately use his m1 with the right timing. imagine a huntress who has no speed punishment when putting her hatchets back, yeah very well done.
who are you my man? 200 hours killer main? first play both sides in every aspect then try to discuss with me.
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Here I go again, I was insulted for being a noob who doesn't play both sides earlier and as a matter of fact, I do play both sides equally. I would be willing to be that I play survivor and killer better than you.
No, I am not playing in low ranks, and no not every killer goes after the same survivor most of the time. I know this because I used to be a low-rank survivor almost two years ago now. Even during rank reset it is not bad, saying that every killer does this is just a straight-up lie.
"a anti tunneling perk is what i told you already." you mean the buffed DS? I still don't understand how you think that DS is not an anti-tunnel perk. Your suggested anti-tunnel perk is just the actual DS but on steroids. Sure, it is an anti-tunnel perk, just buffed to the extreme. Maybe you just don't know what tunneling is in DBD, so let me explain it to you. Tunneling is when the killer goes after a survivor who was just unhooked recently. And DS is a perk that discourages that by punishing the killer with a 5-second stun if it happens. So in conclusion, DS is and has been an anti-tunnel perk since its buff to activate after being unhooked.
"you can easily counter ds by just waiting infront of the slugged body, you can camp the locker if a survivor is inside it, you can take the DS since its just 5 seconds what a lot of people do, me included." These are not counters to DS since the situation is still in favor of the survivor and they still have DS available if this happens again. It is in favor of the survivor because the killer misses out on a hook state. And no, you can't simply take the 5-second stun whenever. You have to have good pressure on the survivor team if you want to eat a DS which is much easier for stronger killers. Not even the best DBD killer playing as Wraith against a bunch of good players (who don't even have to be SWF) with DS can just take it out.
Freddy really doesn't need a nerf, he needs to have his power changed in a way that makes his power more skillful to use, he should be a deadly threat when you are asleep. Even now, he can be dealt with just fine even with strong perks in solo queue. People would have you believe otherwise because a lot of them just give up. You make it sound like it is impossible to win against Freddy when this is just not true. You need to stay awake whenever you can to make him weaker in a chase and when you are asleep just keep throwing pallets down early to not greed against him.
Pyramid head may be able to disable any survivor perk that has to do with unhooking (I assume you meant to speak about unhooking perks, not sure which "endgame" perks he disables), but he also does the same for killer perks which lessen his pool of perks to choose from. It takes a lot of skill to actually use his shockwave effectively and if he misses, you should be making distance on him without backing yourself into a corner where he can spam his power. His range is very limited even with addons increasing it, you can even dodge his attack relatively easily. He becomes less threatening if you can actually make distance on him and predict what he can do.
I am a longtime player who has played both sides equally in this game for the past 4+ years with almost 1800 hours on the game. I am consistently rank 1 on both sides as well (not that this matters much, just letting you know that I play this game quite a bit). The real question is who are YOU? What you are saying is ridiculous and if you were experienced enough in playing this game, you wouldn't be saying how "Freddy takes 0 skill to play and it is impossible to win against or "pyramid head is OP and needs a nerf".
If you would like to see some of my gameplay to see if I am just a "200 hours killer main" I will gladly show you some.
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Ok, you don't like this, so instead of making your experience more enjoyable and liek any other game company change it and make it a more fun experience, we're going to keep all of the things you dislike in the game because of
~STATISTICS~.This is why people don't like almo, he says all this ######### about, THE STATS, so much so you think he'd ######### sacrifice a goat to them every night before he goes to bed.
Your argument is just completely ######### perplexing in all the wrong ways.
Also, I don't advocate hat against almo, I think he makes some silly decisions and I generally dislike his arguments but he can do whatever as long as he doesn't make the game unplayable or a negative experience.
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How far back was this? I started playing in 2018 I think and when I started killer queues were horrible and survivor queues were all under a minute.
But yeah Billy was all over the place he was one of the meta killers with his BBQ Billy build. I hated those matches they would end in like 2 minutes with everyone dead.
But I am telling you the killer base was not lower. The survivor queues were instant and killer queues took forever. Killer queues were consistently bad from around 2018 and 2019. 2020 wasn't so bad.
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I wouldn't say its difficulty that stopped me from playing as much. The game IS a lot, A LOT easier than it was when I started killer. It's just become boring. No new mechanics really in a couple of years. Every so often a new killer with a new playstyle but if you don't like it? 3 months minimum before a potentially fun one.
3 of the last 4 killers have been painfully dull to play and a nightmare to play against.
I'd say bad killer/map design and stagnant gameplay is whats driving me away.
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Hmm that's an interesting take, so basically you're saying since killers progress through the game/grind faster they end up being "done" with the game faster and leave, unlike survivors who stay around longer still grinding? That's an interesting theory and I think you're probably correct, and this is probably part of the answer.
Well there is that. Other people have noted that killers just get bored of the game faster not necessarily due to difficulty, but because of various reasons. Survivors have the same problem, but since they can play with friends they tend tos tay around longer.
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I started back in September '17. But let's say around early Januar '18 was when I hit red ranks at both roles. And my general experience, especially in Red Ranks with the old killer pip system intact was, that there were mor red rank survivors than killer and killer queues were shorter. Sometimes depending on the time of the day. But it made sense, that evenings causes more SWF, so more survivors showing up and pushing queue times longer there. That was my experience in my region(central europe).
But to be honest. I don't thinkt hat killer base has died out that much. What change since them, is the playerbase growing larger e,g, Currently the lows of steam players is around 22k or something. That was the peak back then. And also crossplay, that brought more players from other plattform. And playing killer on console is much tougher than survivor. So we might have gotten a ratio shift coming from there as well.
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i think it's more that than the statement made by our friend, they were less people playing the game. hell i got scared away back then because of how toxic and unbalance the core game was, i only join a bit before ghostface dlc when the game got better. they are just a lot of new player that play survivor but don't want to play the more stressfull role or just are not interested by killer while new killer tend to drop the game quickly when they see the abuse (same for new survivor but to a lesser extend) and the stress coming with the role (for a low reward i want to add). i think now with those change a lot of killer will comeback cau'z now the most broken perk is finally balance in a good way but time will tell. next gen being too fast issue or how to make a 2nd main objective.
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