What's the deal of Gideon plant having 25+ pallets
It's not even about the number anymore, they added a lot of pallets, and many of them are either decently safe or outright god pallets. Devs claimed many times this game is all about mind games, but what the hell can I mindgame when I'm basically forced to break the majority of them. Damn I agree it was a killer sided map. For sure it was. But it went from being a quite killer sided map that needed survivor buffs to being almost Haddonfield level of desperation. I honestly think they need to get rid of some pallets, a few of the god pallets, and make the more of them mindgameable, because right now, unless I happen to have brutal strength, this feels outright unfair.
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+1
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33 last I counted, but it could easily be bumped to 35 if you got unlucky
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Oh my god.... i think hawkins is the only map that can be compared to this.
Maybe it's even more than hawkins..
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thing is Hawkins is way more balanced since it adds some vertical gameplay and some cool ish mindgames. There are many pallets, but seems more managable (In my opinion)
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Hawkins has 2 best gens for survivors. That really balances the map as you basically only need to do 3 gens on that map.
So yeah, i agree hawkins is balanced.
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Hawkin's has a lot of pallets, but the areas they appear are usually tight and confined, making mind games possible.
The Game is literally just all safe pallets. No option but to break.
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I just get my tissues ready for whenever I'm playing killer and get queued up for this map. Here I was thinking the devs learned from previous mistakes when they actually reworked good ol' Ormond, but those cheeky buggers tricked us.
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Its so survivors can show off their high skill gameplay. Dropping an ultra safe pallet that requires you to break it or walk around the entire map as a detour is pro league stuff, even more so if you tap E to DH towards it.
btw nerf spirit she takes no skill unlike my 10,000 survivor gameplay dropping god pallets on gideon
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Hold W, mash space bar, lose anyways, blame current hit registration issues even though every hit was in the open anyways.
That's my game plan boys.
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I guess this is where all the pallets are made now. Blood Lodge Pallets Inc. has moved to a new location
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Give Nurse a try.
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Bad solution for bad design.
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Because the map is small and pallets can be permanently removed. Gideon had one of the highest kill rates for a very long time, this merely balances it out.
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I was being facetious.. nothing I say or do will improve a game for a company I don’t work for.
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+1
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No, it doesn't. Have you tried playing killer on this map? Sometimes you can't even catch survivors because there are safe pallets everywhere. Yes, it was a killer sided map in the past, but this isn't balance.
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So me and @Antonia went around the game in our own custom lobby, and we went to go and count the amount of pallets/windows we encountered and how many of them were considered safe/god/normal. In our findings:
There were 24 pallets on the map overall
12 of those pallets were god/safe (unmindgameable) and had to be broken.
There were 3 god windows
2 Infinites were potentially created based on setups
How on earth have they made the game a mess...
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Literally ridiculous. I'm not sure what was going through the designers head when creating the set-up tbh. I'm thinking someone doesn't play killer at all!!!
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that's... why we complain and give feedback. At least they can't say we didn't give feedback, they are just lazy/incompetent
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I think he's saying before. Before it was killer sided aside for the exit gates being on opposite sides. Totem placements also were alright and sometimes the gens can be hard to find. The safe pallets on the map weren't interconnected and the rest could be mindgamed. Obviously not the case on the current one for most variations.
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"Merely". Dude. It's extremely survivor sided. The only pallets that could be mindgameable have see-through walls so not even those are half ######### decent for killer.
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The thing is the redone Gideons Meat Plant is absolutely and completely Survivor friendly with 5 God pallets I can name off the top of my head, and nearly 30 total pallets as you have pointed out. The reworked map definitely needs to be rebalanced, as it is absolutely disgusting to play killer on it and I rarely defend killer side.
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I mean it makes sense to add many pallets, bc the map has only two? windows. So it was not the worst design idea. And so i can understand how this map got created. But how can they test this map and nobody realizes how save this pallets are?
Is there not one single person in this whole process who understands what makes a pallet safe? Its not even about a god survivor can run this pallet perfectly and is untouchable. A monkey could press one button and the killer is powerless.
So this cant be. They must know that the killer must break it. I guess most survivors can not find the pallets or die without reaching them. I mean when the data says that the map was killersided before they are right. There were many safe pallets before the rework. So it makes sense to add more to make the map more balanced.
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Many people oversimplify the Game as “too many god pallets” but there are also lots of tools for killers to use too, now more than ever. Pallets are the only defence on this map- there are 6 windows that spawn in the game if I remember correctly- an L and T wall in the far corner, a guaranteed long wall/short wall tile, the chute drop, the monitor room window and the rarely used, almost useless window near one of the exit gates. Cross out both the L and T wall windows and the exit gate window because exit gate one is practically useless unless you’re not the best at killer, and the L and T loop is enclosed due to a breakable wall, meaning it has one entrance and exit if that wall is not broken- you should be able to get a guaranteed down if they go in this area unless you make a big mistake. The long wall/short wall tile is far stronger for the killer than the survivor because there are no gaps in the walls, they are complete LoS blockers meaning it is very mindgame-able. The chute drop is interesting, the survivor will always have a stagger (minus BL proc) at the bottom of fall so vaulting behind them will get you a quick down considering there is a relatively weak pallet in that enclosed room OR because that room is in a corner, you can take the stairs next to the room after they vault and follow them as they have to go north, to get back into chase.
Now the pallets. The pallets in the upper centre of the map are strong on one side, weak on the other as the killer can cut across by falling down the stairs. There are also 2 (?) pallets at the bottom of 2 (?) of the stairs that are incredibly weak and should give you no problem unless you’re facing a more than competent survivor. There are a few god pallets but that number drops as they do specific gens, and the more pallets you break, has a bigger and bigger impact on the map.
Zoning is also incredibly easy on the map, with the new breakable walls and just the overall layout, it’s very easy to trap survivors in one room and they will inevitably be downed if you don’t make a huge mistake. Easy way to get a hit is by forcing them into one of these rooms, make them drop the pallet so that they are away from the entrance/make them drop the pallet, get them to rotate to the most advantageous side, then break it so they lose distance, and you will get a down.
Overall, the Game has a lot of pallets, while it seems it’s impossible to down survivors sometimes, it’s possible you are just not using the map to its fullest potential, the map is not just break pallet after pallet, you have to pick your chases carefully, if they have too much distance on you, they might be able to loop around one of the larger loops, so avoid that at all costs. The biggest nerf to the map is how the survivors just aren’t able to chain pallets like they used to, the breakable walls often trap survivors, so use that wisely to tremendously cut down the distance they’re getting when you break the pallet. On a side note, I like the work done to make the map more ranged killer friendly, a lot of the loops have been lowered, and the entire upper middle section no longer has partitions. I don’t think it’s perfect, but it can be an incredibly powerful map, especially with the right killers, rip to some of the more inexperienced nurses though. There is one new God pallet though, that’s right between some boxes and I definitely don’t agree with that one, that one is so random.
Edit: Some of this info can vary slightly with map generation considering the gens close off most rooms and open them when the gen is completed. The L and T wall can be dubious, that room occasionally might be able to not spawn the gen, though from about 10 or so test runs, it’s fairly consistent that the room has a gen in it. (I also edited a few things like upwards to north to make it a bit clearer what I was intending to say)
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The design of the map makes it so M1 killers have the worst performance ever in the history of performance. Straight up. I get the less windows = more pallets, but they over did it a lot. There are 3 god pallets. Three. And close to loops, which some of them, again are see through, so mind games are close to null. Either I just don't respect pallets and brute force my way through (not a good idea by all means) or I try to search for a survivor that is kinda missplaced and somehow doesn't have a loop near him, which the usual outcome of that is that they get injured and runs to a pallet succesfully, which again forces me to the first option. I don't think this map is "quircky" in terms of having to "re-learn" since the rework. I just think it's plain unfair. Sure, Huntress has more game no with the hatchets since there is LoS in more loops, and Nurse and Spirit will be strong as ever, but the other killers just straight up struggle a lot to down one survivor. Played Billy against a SWF group that had 2 people with Windows of Opportunity and no chance. Managed to down 1 which by the time meant they had done 3 gens and the 4th was on it's way. I surely destroyed like half of the pallets at least, but for the remaining of the game they unhooked the survivor and starting doing gens while other survivor just starting dumping pallets on my face again. "You could leave that survivor and go for the ones doing gens to stop them!". Yeah, I do that other games to see if I can snowball off them, but unless they are really oblivious or are just straight up bad, they usually know what pallets haven't been used/broken and lure me to those, meanwhile the others get on gens again. They just kept rubber banding me. Because they know I can't afford to commit. Killer that can't ignore pallets are straight up f*cked.
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See trough loops were a mistake.
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It doesn't matter when if you find a survivor, at any point in time unless they make a big mistake, they have enough pallets in safe distances that they can keep you busy either until you have to drop the chase, or for the entire duration of the match almost.
So I mean say you drop the chase, another survivor will pick up and start using them and until they go to an area that pallets were destroyed in, the same situation happens.
It's not just that there are so many it's that there are so many within short distances of each other.
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That exact same problem can be seen in some of the Autohaven maps too, blood lodge is still pallet city and the survivors can run to a loop no problem, but Autohaven also had see-through loops which the survivors can see the killer through, window loops which they can use instead of the pallet, god windows in the office, gas station and the lodge, breakable walls that need to be kicked to put an end to those loops, plus they can have longer chases because they can chain the loops. Not only this, but some of those maps do not cater to slower and ranged killers, particular the maps with the car pile walls, which can be looped almost infinitely with enough distance. This is immensely different from the Game, the survivor does not choose where to go unless you let them. Most loops cannot be safely looped without an enormous amount of distance and they’re easy to mindgame. If you respect a pallet, or miss a swing, you can still catch the survivor going around most of the time because the loops are either unsafe and too short or too long and easy to catch up on.
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Bloodlodge is a terrible map too for killers, but everything (gens, structures, etc) are spread enough to the point where it's feasable to win. Really hard still (I too want that map changed in some way) but not as hard as The Game now. Also, the map is decently polarized that most of the advantageous parts are near the bloodlodge itself and may be the crane, so chasing survivors on the other sides of the map is not AS difficult. Bloodlodge has around 24~ pallets or so but at the very least, the stronger zones of the map for the survivors are somewhat concentrated at locations, meanwhile gideon plant has an all around much easier time for survivors than pre-rework with the unbelievable amount of pallets, safe pallets, godpallets, see through loops close to each other. It's just unfun and unfair
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Not even remotely. They are not even comparable, blood lodge is pretty bad but it's serviceable and better than it used to be.
Gas Heaven is a problem but not because of pallets but the walls that negate every killer not mobile enough outright.
The game you Hold W, press space, hold W, press space.....
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Before the rework, the Game was a very killer sided map.
The reason for this is simple. There were loads of safe pallets but that's it; very few proper tiles or vaults, so once the killer eats through them, you're dead.
However, the developers instead opted to fix this by adding MORE safe pallets. So many, in fact, that the map feels awful to play. There's no mindgame or any real killer-survivor interaction; hold W and drop a pallet and repeat until you hit a dead end. It's insufferable on both sides.
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lmao is this an astro turfer? if this someone paid by the company to defend the game online?
Theres no defending this the pallets are junk. In a normal map even if there's a really strong pallet one that MUST be broken, it's often on a tile that you can walk away from or walk around, the tiles allow you to drop the chase and go somewhere else. In new gideon these are god pallets like the one at the edge of lerys in that they take up an entire corridor and you can not progress further down the map in that direction unless you break the pallet. That right there is the key difference between these pallets and other pallets. They literally block off the map. They're terrible, ruin the flow of the game and just absolutely suck to play against.
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Hawkins barely has any safe palettes. I think it has like 3 in the entire map. Most of the palettes are unsafe and are there to just buy a few seconds, unless the killer is bad and falls for palette stuns all the time.
The Game needed more palettes, it has no gyms and very few windows so it's basically just dead zones with a few safe palettes. The extra palettes were necessary but I think too many of them are too strong. This has become the easiest map to loop killers on for a long time, and I'm not even a good looper.
That said I'm glad, because after Autohaven has become Killerhaven I'm glad to see a map that helps survivors more. BHVR need to balance these maps out better some are just way too killer-sided and some are too survivor-sided.
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Balance wise, I don't think much has changed to the Autohaven maps though. Bloodlodge maybe, but that kinda was an insanely strong map for survivors.
If you're talking about deadzones, well those also already existed before and correct me if I'm mistaken but didn't the devs announce that they were aware of the deadzone problem?
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Funny, i think the opposite is true. It changed from survivor sided to killer sided.
Before, the Game was a dream, because it just consisted of line-of-sight-breakers, and i could juke the killer all day long.
After the rework, there are lots of open spaces, los-breakers are now see-through (no more juking or missleading the killer, and breakable walls make you run into a deathtrap.
Before, you had to play the stealth card and juke the killer instead of just running him in circles, now you have to do that, and i think thats what the pallet are for, to compensate for the fact you cant juke anymore in a lot of tiles.
And yes, the same is true for Autohaven. There simply isn´t anywhere you could have gone on that isolated los-breaker, so losing the killer is next to impossible on lage parts of the map.
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Do you have a way to capture this through video or screenshot?
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Thats the thing you hold w, press space, hold w, press space and survivors are fine with that and if the killer loses its because they were bad and the survivors were much better players, meanwhile these same people complain certain killers take no skill. The double standards are baffling
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Bloodlodge was the only strong map, and maybe Azarov's Rest. But with the rework the maps got bigger with more empty spaces and dead zones. Azarov's Rest is like this with the map becoming more spaced out it is a lot harder to juke killers and chain the defenses together like you used to be able, and worse it spawns 4 gens on one side and 2 on the other, which makes it really easy for killer gen defense. There are spawns of Az's Rest that are impossible to win as Survivor if the killer plays it properly.
Wrecker's Yard has always been killer sided. Blood Lodge was survivor sided but that's largely been fixed, Wretched shop they closed the god windows off and made a breakable shack, the rest of the map is pretty weak except for God Bus and the crane, there are tons of dead zones. The only issue left on Autohaven for killers is the God Bus fatshame bug.
The deadzones are indeed still there and that's really the issue. Until they fix it the realm that is generally more killer-sided now.
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It was not a killer sided map before, but yeah this map is now pallet break simulator, even more than Haddonfield is.
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I've played on it enough now to comment.
- The Game needed an update both visually and for balance reasons.
- It was Killer-sided previously.
- The correct fix was not to make it crazy Survivor-sided. There are too many pallets, and far too many "safe" or "god" pallets.
I think the fix is simple enough, i.e. simply reduce some of these pallets from being able to spawn at the same time, particularly the safe ones. Do I think it will happen? Yes. The overcorrection is COMICALLY bad. When every Fog Whisperer is making fun of you, it pays to take note. The rest of us are sure to find our voices as well.
Visually, I love the new map. Balance needs an adjustment back towards the center. The bad thing about a map like this is that it pretty much encourages camping in some form or another. When looping literally takes forever, Killers are better served by hooking whomever they get down in a relatively cleared our area and then proxy camping so they can dictate where the rest of the match is going to take place. The 3-Gen strategy is going to be the "go to" option on The Game. I'm just being pragmatic here. I found myself doing this unconsciously without even thinking about it. When I reviewed the videos of the matches I played, I saw a clear pattern emerge wherein once I got the first person down, usually after an extended bit of looping and dropping of pallets, I planted my flag in that area and simply didn't patrol the entire map. I found I rather give up those other Generators and fight for the three in long, drawn out matches in the areas I'd already cleared of pallets.
I don't think this is a healthy way to go, but Killers are going to do what they MUST do to win. Not all Killers have the anti-looping options. I play Myers, for example, and I don't have the tech to fight forever in those pallets. A lot of Killers don't have the right tools. If Blood Favor was more viable, I would use it, but let's be honest, it is a joke. :)
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They finally made it not so killer sided and a deadzone. You aren't really supposed to down someone within 10 secs everytime. It should take some effort.
Many other maps need more pallets because there is a lot of deadzones everywhere.
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What the #########. What. What deadzones are you talking about. There are literal God pallets spawning near each other and the loops are see through and ultra safe. And it has 25-30 pallets. You could literally play trigger-happy throwing pallets left and right, and unless the other survivors are just straight up bad with gens, tou are doing a 4 gen chase, even 5 if the killer even dares to try to mind game a loop.
Post edited by Gay Myers (Luzi) on0 -
The old map had rooms with not even a single pallet. They were many deadzones. It was literally no effort for the killer to down someone. On top of that, it was a small map so that didn't help either with the deadzones it had.
Post edited by Gay Myers (Luzi) on0 -
We didn't video or screenshot anything, all I can say is go on custom with a friend using zanshin and windows and literally try it for yourself, you can get more or less pallets.
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Wait... there's THAT many pallets in a trial
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I’m clearly not paid by BHVR to support them, I too have my fair share of complaints for the company, they prioritise the complete wrong things and make some ludicrous changes but I don’t think the Game is as bad as everyone makes it. It changes from the monotonous gameplay of being looped around the same pallet by good survivors who position themselves well and are to use the window at least 3, if not more depending on things like if they good enough to know how chase initiation works and entity blocker being iffy. The old map still had a high killer win percentage, and now, they’ve reduced the height of loops for ranged killers, they’ve blocked off rooms with breakable walls that are able to completely block off any means of reasonable escape, the loops are generally far more unsafe compared to the old Game, the entire map is far more easy to navigate, it’s far more open which is better for killers with reduced turning like Blight and Hillbilly. The only change that has a complete negative impact on killers is the new god pallet where the forklift loop used to be next to the freezer room. The map still has issues, DbD has a lot of issues in general, but in my honest opinion, it’s not nearly as bad as everyone says it is. The community likes to complain and vent their frustrations out on the forums, I too have done it, so I take posts like these with more than a grain of salt.
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Thats true for the lower level, and there you could juke the killer easily. that, you cant to anymore. I liked the old version better.
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"the loops are generally far more unsafe compared to the old Game"
?????????????????????????????????????????
12 safe pallets with 3 god pallets in the game now, and you say its unsafe compared to the old one, really.
equip window of opportunity and see for yourself
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