new update encourages lazy outpost meta
I loved the update, until I put one of my outposts up and only got 1/5th of Raiders it usually gets. And one of the 3 raiders just went in got the free tombsites then quit!
I spent 6+ hours making each of my outposts. All have been normal or dangerous, and all my outposts have gotten roughly more or equal amount of accolades to kills ratio (ie. they're not unfair, with mostly fun/artistic/ingenious accolades).
Additionally, after update all my Prestige 2-5 outposts suddenly got enough Prestige points to get them to 10!! (probably 'cause of amount of accolades they have on them).
So what's the point of building anymore?
I get 4/5th less ppl playing my outposts,.. and from amount of accolades I get, it doesn't feel like I am "earning" Prestige points anymore. They feel more like a participation trophy, lmao. There is no threat of "if this outpost isn't quality, it won't last to P10" anymore.
When playing as Raider, I've also noticed lazy bases more in rotation. Bases where it's obvious builders spend around 10 minutes on. Some don't even have any structure, just bunch of mobs peppered around!
While I like everything else about the update, I think it sets a bad incentive for building. If quality outposts get same amount of raiders/attention as lazy outpost, there is no point in investing time in making quality outpost.
For the time being, I am gonna hold on to my polished outposts until hopefully this changes. 'Cause by putting them up, I legit get sad to have put in so much work, and only 2-3 raiders play it per prestige cycle.
Please strongly consider making Accolades significantly increase raider rates.
In the meanwhile, I am going to become a Raider main and just raid the abundance of lazy bases, rank up for the rewards and see if (unironically) that'll be enough to keep me invested in this game.
Having said all that,.. everything else about the new update; well done 👍️
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players overwhelming play XP maps in normal over art builds or challenges why bother putting in effort knowing this?
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I agree. Since the latest patch it feels like my bases aren’t getting any raids. Used to look forward to getting up in the morning and checking raids but now nothing. Almost feels like this patch killed the game as I am not interested in building bases that don’t get raided.
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you should come hang out in twitch chat with the night-time group. we exchange maps all the time, play eachothers stuff, you won't get resources but you will get feedback from strong players and the entertainment of watching streamers play them live.
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I'd love to build more, but dislike investing in a burial sight and seeing some of the horrible bedrock stacks. (would like to preview before buying)
Dislike taking time to build things that are a little different from the narrow path loaded with traps or large room loaded with traps, when almost no raiders explore. And even worse when you get only one raid in a 24 hour period.
Would love to raid more creative maps that aren't designed solely with the mindset of killing raiders is the only reason to build. Made an iron claw "roller coaster" that drops a raider right next to the GenMat, but only one person had faith to trust the ride sign. Others immediately shoot the claws and follow Harvey.
Want to be able to favorite builders to raid more of their outposts (can see this as a touchy subject), but it would be nice to support friends and randoms who built outposts I'd like to see more of.
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Is there a Discord? 'cause I would love to chat with people but don't really do Twitch.
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@zbord Does it have a big sign saying 'trust' on the outside and the entrance is a drop through a corrosive cube? If so, that might have been me a few days ago (can't remember who the builder was); I was wondering if someone had done something similar to what I had been thinking about doing. Whoever the builder was had executed the timing perfectly (like, getting snatched by a claw a millisecond before getting roasted by a flamethrower, etc.) and it was really fun and must have taken so much testing to get it right. If that was you, kudos.
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Its almost like a system that only rewards one special thing breeds exploiters that hunt only that special thing.
WEIRD. And totally not forseeable...
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this post is so ambiguous i have no idea to whom you are speaking or about what.
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Thanks for the mention, but mine was more simple. a "ride" sign with a sequence of claws pulling the raider through corridors lined with corrosive cubes.
On topic I've noticed many of the brutal outposts I've recently gone through have had 5+ modded warmongers just bull rushing single block wide corridors right at the start or when retrieving the GenMat.
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Re: Warmongers, that's actually pretty funny. Usually I see these as a delayed thing, coming to harass you from behind once you enter the base. But this sounds more like "HELO FREN LET MONGER HUG YOU WITH BLADE ARMS"
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I guess? I think it is pretty obvious... but I'll try to make it more clear, maybe just my own bias:
"Its almost like a system (basebuilding) that only rewards one special thing(kills) breeds exploiters that hunt only that special thing(killboxes and nearly unbeatable maps instead of creative and visually pleasing design).
WEIRD. And totally not forseeable..."
I gave the devs multiple ideas in the beta on how to fix this relatively easily (remove harvey or make him optional, rate maps not by placed traps but by play/death/extraction ratio, feature maps with many accolades more often than those without, add an accolade "unfun")
But I was just bombarded by the hardcore fans for not being good enough xD
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you act as if the system doesn't reward 0 death runs and encourage exploiting ammo recovery through walls and shooting guards that you kite to the map edge from outside their allowed range. the raiders are just as at fault. every person playing the game plays a part.
i put the maps out and collected data. i put out 4 XP maps and an art build in normal, my art build got HALF the number of raids of any single XP map, and the XP maps collected over 92%% of the total raids. this trend went on for multiple days in a row bow before and after the most recent matchmaking changes. builders aren't rewarded by raiders for being artistic, they aren't rewarded for making challenges, they aren't even rewarding us for the XP maps a lot of the time, and when they do it's with "ACCOLADES!!!!!!" which do jack all to cover the cost of keeping the outpost running.
so riddle me this, if i don't get resources from accolades, raiders don't voluntarily give kills on free xp maps, avoid art builds, won't play challenging maps, how is the builder supposed to feel rewarded by building? we don't get fun replays, we don't get resources, the accolades mean nothing even when they are rarely given out. why is it the builders fault if they then do the only thing left to them to keep their bases running without having to throw hours and hours into raiding bases after they spend hours and hours building that one that everyone is refusing to run because it's an artistic boat scene and they want free XP?
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Yes!! I think getting Accolades should at least = Rank or Resource points! It's like literally for quality assurance.
Without good builders there is no MeetyourMaker game experience. And without raiders,... well it's pretty close to this update's experience 😛
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I think being able to have multiple outposts active at a time is a big issue.
With five 'chances', and the pressure to build five outposts at a time, builders resort to lazy builds. Churning out 'XP' builds to farm points. This also waters down the raid pool, and means all of those outposts see fewer raids for it.
I considered dropping it to three, but now I think even having just one active outpost at a time would be better. You get your one outpost to submit to the raid pool, you can change it around and swap it out with others if you like, but only one is able to gather raiders at any given time. This would drastically reduce the pool of potential outposts, and means everyone gets more raids on their one active outpost, while giving builders the incentive to make that one outpost really count by putting more effort into it, and devote more time to actually raiding other outposts, because you're not having to spend all your time building multiple outposts.
Even with only one active raid at a time, you can still build as many as you like, test out different set ups, and assign them to social in the meantime, maybe even getting feedback before you make those outposts live. And those who do want to play considerably more and build multiple outposts and check the game multiple times a day, can rotate their outposts throughout the day to get maximum footfall. This could improve the quality of raids for everyone.
I largely gave up having five active outposts after the first week, because the time (and synthite) investment was simply too much, and the return was not worth it, getting about 5 raids per outpost. I went down to three, but this week I've stuck to just the one. Not only do I feel like this weeks outpost is more polished and artistic, and I've been able to fine tune traps, but I've had more time to raid and my synthite stocks aren't running dry every time I log in.
Post edited by Seraphor on1 -
Did... you just disagree with me, only to basicially exactly explain what I was critiquing? :D
It is never the players fault for exploiting the system. That is what players do. Bad gamedesign and overlooking blatent issues are the fault, which are always on the dev.
You can make these mistakes, but if you ignore them, that is 100% on you(the dev).
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i disagreed that
"Its almost like a system (basebuilding) that only rewards one special thing(kills) breeds exploiters that hunt only that special thing(killboxes and nearly unbeatable maps instead of creative and visually pleasing design)" was a
result of the basebuilding system
it's a result of how they punish raiders for dying. raiders run any dungeon that isn't a killbox hella paranoid, denying any dungeon that isn't a killbox it's income. so killboxes were born because of raiders being hyper cautious and the lack of ability to be sneaky with traps cause of no creative blocks or angles. but it wasn't born because we're rewarded for kills, it's born because raiders refused to give any to anything that wasn't because of how THEIR loop is designed. the builders didn't start with killboxes, we made fun artistic maps that got dumped on repeatedly and got no economic value. so we did what we could to fix that. if raiders weren't punished so heavily for dying, and played the game for more fun than progress, we'd see more enjoyable bases and less killbox bases. we also have a balance issue with co-op being in the same environment of solo. i cause use boltshot and impalers REALLY well against a solo because when they die, it resets. i can't do that on a co-op they just revive right there EVERY TIME. so i am FORCED to use bulk fire and plasma since they fire repeatedly. i don't like doing that, it's boring. but again, because of how the game treats RAIDERS builders have to play differently. we have to multi layer walls to stop ammo being pulled through solid objects, we have to make mazes at the front to stop people kiting guards outside to kill from outside their range. the raiders forced this situation by being as abusive as they could towards every builder they encountered. guess what, we aren't sorry this is how it turned out, it was forced evolution.
but yeah, i agree it's on the devs it's their game. and i give feedback just like you. but i don't think it's the raiders fault, or the builders. your post made it seem like you were blaming the building side of the game. you can starve a builder of raiders, you can't starve a raider of builds until every person is gone.
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