My Pitch For A Prospective Legion Rework
NEW STATUS EFFECT: 'I SEE YOU'
Instead of Deep Wounds, frenzied hits apply 'I See You', which reveals other survivors in a radius around the afflicted. Visual effects communicate to both survivors that, by being close to each other, they are giving The Legion information.
The afflicted survivor will not be revealed themselves. However, if an afflicted survivor's radius collides with another afflicted survivor's (like a Venn diagram), both are revealed.
REASONING: Offers a status that provides fewer growing pains for new players who are already overwhelmed. In the time it takes them to learn exactly how the status works, revealing an ally is less frustrating than going down. Also, has synergy with the new secondary ability (described below).This 'Venn diagram' approach to revealing afflicted survivors encourages the Legion to spread the pressure out, even if survivors split up. Legion is famously countered by splitting, and this will still be the case, but a skilled and determined Legion will be able to overcome it and exert pressure on all four survivors regardless.
If The Legion hooks someone afflicted by I See You, the status ends prematurely and The Legion receives two tokens (this is a surprise tool that can help them later). This can only trigger once per survivor.
REASONING: This further incentivizes The Legion to evenly distribute hook states, as getting a bunch of Tokens is a huge power spike for them.
FERAL FRENZY CHANGES
First and foremost, the insta-down mechanic is removed. The thought makes me sad as well, but, I think it is made up for.
In addition to applying I See You, new skill expression is added to the ability. After landing a hit, there is a brief window of time where The Legion can hit the 'end ability' button. If done with correct timing, end the Frenzy with a smooth animation and partial refund to the cooldown, returning control to The Legion much faster than normal.
Doing so outside of this window will result in the standard, more punishing animation.
If the button isn't pressed at all after a hit, the timer is reset and the frenzy will continue as normal.
Frenzy hits are still incapable of downing survivors, of course.
REASONING: Makes for proactive and skill-based gameplay. A Legion with good game sense and/or quick thinking will be able to identify the right time to end their frenzy prematurely. This gives the player more agency to leverage the frenzy hit in the chase they're currently in, or try and spread their pressure elsewhere.
Applying I See You to a survivor who is both healthy and unafflicted will grant the Legion one token.
REASONING: Encourages the Legion to slow the game down and allow survivors to reset, so they can use their cool new ability more, which is:
NEW SECONDARY ABILITY: 'THE GANG'S ALL HERE!'
Once The Legion has four tokens, they can spend all their tokens to call the other members of The Legion in for back-up. Each survivor being revealed by I See You will have one bot-controlled Legion member target them, up to a maximum of three, going furthest-to-nearest.
The effect lasts a certain amount of time. Within this timeframe, the player will see the auras of the other Legion members. By looking at them and pressing the secondary ability button, the player will switch control over to the other member (with the member they 'jumped' from becoming bot-controlled in the interim). I See You's timer will freeze during this ability, meaning it will not dissipate.
The behavior of the other Legion members could be rudimentary and passive, for fairness and ease-of-programming. They are more stalking the survivors than actively chasing them - however, a survivor who foolishly gets close to them or does a gen in their face will quickly regret it.
Once the ability ends, the Legion members disappear in a plume of smoke, and the one they currently control is replaced by the one they started the match as.
REASONING: My feeling is that The Legion could use a 'Showstopper' type move. A moment when everything clicks into place and your skilled play is rewarded with a huge advantage. It gives the killer some terrifying map presence, though only within specific time periods they have to work to earn.
Thus ends my humble pitch.
Comments
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Yeah, don't you dare bring anything like this to my Legion…
frenzied hits apply 'I See You', which reveals other survivors in a radius around the afflicted.
So just worse than his current killer instinct?
If you want to buff this aspect just make it so it's fixed are around Legion instead of connected to his terror radius.After landing a hit, there is a brief window of time where The Legion can hit the 'end ability' button. If done with correct timing, end the Frenzy with a smooth animation and partial refund to the cooldown, returning control to The Legion much faster than normal.
That's completely useless, I end my Frenzy while survivor got speed boost from me anyway. That's just M1 at that point and it's way better to catch up in Frenzy and try to cancel next to them.
Each survivor being revealed by I See You will have one bot-controlled Legion member target them, up to a maximum of three, going furthest-to-nearest.
Another highly popular aspect of another killer. Basically guard on every survivor, which can have only two outcomes, either it's strong and it's going to often end the game, or it can be easily avoided and it's kinda useless.
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Yeah, don't you dare bring anything like this to my Legion…
My first 260 hours were exclusively on Legion, I'm highly attached to them as well.
I'm not 'bringing anything' to Legion, I believe that this is a better and more thematic direction for them.So just worse than his current killer instinct?
If you want to buff this aspect just make it so it's fixed are around Legion instead of connected to his terror radius.A fair point but it's not explicitly meant to be superior to the killer instinct, it's meant to synergize with the new skill and turn Legion into more of an information-based killer. It gives the impression that the other three are watching you from the shadows, which is part of the fantasy of playing as a group of four killers.
That's completely useless, I end my Frenzy while survivor got speed boost from me anyway. That's just M1 at that point and it's way better to catch up in Frenzy and try to cancel next to them.
I'm sorry, but I'm sort of confused. You end the frenzy after hitting anyways, and this change would encourage correctly identifying when to end your Frenzy after a hit and doing it skillfully.
Wouldn't that make it a good change? It's rewarding you for doing what you already do, but doing it skillfully.Another highly popular aspect of another killer. Basically guard on every survivor, which can have only two outcomes, either it's strong and it's going to often end the game, or it can be easily avoided and it's kinda useless.
I don't think killers sharing aspects with others is a bad thing, if that's what your first point is. It provides a certain interconnectedness to the cast and it means you're working within tried-and-true design space.
I see the bot-controlled Legion members acting more like Nemesis zombies, where their main purpose is to keep the survivors moving and slow the game down. Then, when the player takes control of one, it's essentially them starting a chase where they have somewhat of an advantage.
I think it would function best as slowdown that can catch careless survivors out - but in a way that's healthier and better-telegraphed for new players. Deep Wound isn't really tutorialized: you have to go down to it to learn what it is and how to handle it. But all survivors know to avoid people running at them with knives.I'm sad you don't like the pitch much, but I hope my explanations can sell you on it a little better.
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I'm sorry, but I'm sort of confused. You end the frenzy after hitting anyways, and this change would encourage correctly identifying when to end your Frenzy after a hit and doing it skillfully.
No? I hit them and if I want to commit to the chase, then I catch up, maybe try to bodyblock them from window/pallet and then end the frenzy.
Why would I do it right after I hit them when they just got speed boost away and got distance from me?
I often even lunge to end the frenzy for chase, because it can help you bodyblock survivor.I don't think killers sharing aspects with others is a bad thing
It's not always a bad thing, but it's not a good thing to share already hated aspect of another killer.
Neither zombies, or guards are popular by really both sides for different reasons.
Killers don't like them, because they are not reliable (buggy) and survivors don't like them, because killer can get quick downs with teaming up, or just some pressure basically without any skill needed.0 -
No? I hit them and if I want to commit to the chase, then I catch up, maybe try to bodyblock them from window/pallet and then end the frenzy.
Why would I do it right after I hit them when they just got speed boost away and got distance from me?
I often even lunge to end the frenzy for chase, because it can help you bodyblock survivor.Apologies for misunderstanding then. Now you mention it, I recall doing the same thing and it only really working on survivors who aren't paying particular attention/don't know how to play against experienced legions. As I approached rank 1 the survivors got smarter, bolder, and didn't panic as much, resulting only in me getting to the next loop faster than usual - but they could usually get into an ideal spot by the time my fatigue wore off and then it was just a normal chase.
But OK, I concede that part could be comfortably nixed. It's more of a sidegrade to make the killer feel a bit more dynamic anyways, and to feed my addiction to being rewarded for hitting timing prompts.
Neither zombies, or guards are popular by really both sides for different reasons.
Killers don't like them, because they are not reliable (buggy) and survivors don't like them, because killer can get quick downs with teaming up, or just some pressure basically without any skill needed.Coincidentally enough after i moved on from Legion, Knight and Nemesis were the two I started playing after, which you probably could've guessed. The frustrations with Zombies are that they're amazing if they're where you need them to be, but that situation is rare. And likewise the guards are pretty reliable and helpful but their AI was really easy to exploit at points (survivors tapping windows to force a vault got my blood pumping).
I imagined the bot-controlled Legion members would appear near each afflicted survivor, and the ability to jump between control of them would mean that you're in control of downing the survivors (unless the survivors get too cheeky and completely disrespect the knife-wielding punk that's stalking them, of course), which I think would soften the frustration on the Killer side. As for survivors, I expect they wouldn't like getting chased off gens by bots, but there'd be a fun element of tension in that the real Legion could take over. And, well… let's be honest. Survivors already don't like Legion. Anything that makes going against them more interesting/intuitive on the survivor side would probably make for a successful rework, game-health wise.
Think I've said all I can at this point - if you don't like it, you don't like it. But thank you for pointing out the flaws.
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I think everything was going fine and well (though I would have to ask how would you address the issue of Legion being able to hit more than 5 hits consecutively since there'd be no cap to it, but it still could be fixed), until you brought up the bot-controlled Legion members... I mean... 🤦. I do a lot of posting about Legion specifically, you should check it out.
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The problem isn't that your suggestion is already from another killer, but instead because that many other AI based aspects of a killer's power (Like Nemesis' zombies and Knight's guards) or switching places killer's abilities (like Victor from The Twins and the dog named Snug controlled by the The Houndmaster) are full of BUGS and GLITCHES that BHVR doesn't fix and won't do it any time soon. So, for the sake of everyone's peace of mind, please don't bring AI to Legion's power, instead, rework it to be stronger.
What I think would be a good addition to the game that includes every member of the gang is free skins from every character of the Legion (Frank and Julie + Susie and Joey) and special Moris for each member. What do you think? Also please check my posts about Legion and tell me what you think about it
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