Krasue, too little counterplay, too low of a skillfloor, some proposed tweaks and changes
Can't believe I'm dusting off my old BHVR account for this (god bless the DBD forums), but MAN I got this chip on my shoulder I gotta cash in.
I understand that the new chapter and update has only been out a week and if I made an entire post about feedback on it I'd be writing something close to the bible in terms of length, so I'll focus on the actual highlight of this update, The Krasue.
The Krasue, not a lot of counterplay for a very low skillfloor killer
Gonna preface by saying that yes: we SHOULD wait a week before calling for nerfs, but it doesn't take more than a day to figure out when something is CLEARLY busted beyond belief and the Krause is VERY busted at the moment.
I've gone up against a bunch of Krasues in the last 2 days and the issues with her became more apparent the more I inevitably died to her; I've managed to pinpoint a couple of issues with her and they're as follows:
- The Krasue has a VERY easy time injuring, downing, and tunneling survivors out of the game (even more so than anyone else considering the recent changes that got pushed through on accident, including the nerf to Off The Record).
This is primarily due to the fact that leeched stays around after hooking and is still active for injury by Intestinal Whip after consuming mushrooms, this makes her very lethal with a very short chase time given the right circumstances.
- Head Form has very little counterplay beyond spinning and guessing what the killer will do correctly.
Now before you chuck a pebble at me, I'm not specifically talking about Intestinal Whip itself (even if it's a very strong tool with a few mild issues), the real problem with her head form comes from the vault, it's very easy to perform and leaves the survivor with very little counterplay beyond hoping she whiffs and allows you to vault back (and GL doing that if she's using Dissolution if it's a pallet you're vaulting); it's reminiscent of release Good Guy and his free will Scamper, but somehow even more broken than his.
This all culminates into the following issues, summarized:
- Leeched is far too difficult to semi-actively remove and too easy to apply, making it FAR too simple for The Krasue to injure someone and put them into the dying state;
- Head Form's vault and Intestinal Whip have insane strength that are far too simple to use and leave very little counterplay for the survivors beyond spinning and praying to the Entity that the Whip misses;
- Overall, The Krasue has a very tiny skill floor and short skill ceiling that are FAR too potent for the amount of counterplay given to the Survivors to use.
"So how do we go about fixing these problems?"
You probably didn't ask that, but if you did then I'm glad!
Gonna also say that I'm no game balance expert, I'm just throwing a couple of suggestions towards BHVR so that they could perhaps find a good ground for the Krasue where she's still strong, but not as oppressive for the Survivors to go up against.
Leeched is far too difficult to semi-actively remove and too easy to apply, making it far too simple for the Krasue to injure and down someone super quickly
For this we can take two different routes, a more active route and a more passive one (or both, if the suggestions work alright together).
ACTIVE
- Decrease the time it takes to consume a mushroom and increase the movement speed while doing so slightly;
- If the Leeched effect is cured below Leeched 1 (as shown on the hud as slowly emptying), The Krasue cannot injure a survivor with Intestinal Whip until it's reapplied back at Leeched 1 either through regurgitate or Intestinal Whip.
I'll admit perhaps I just need to "git gud", but I'm not sure why Leeched 1 also counts the period of time where your meter is depleting down to 0.
I personally find it kind of unfair to have your infection slowly whittle down to being cured and then The Krasue swoops in and injures you without hassle right as it's about to be cured, causing you to go back to Leeched 1 immediately.
If she has to Intestinal Whip 3 times to apply Leeched 1 and then injure from there, I think she should do the same if the infection is cured below 1, with the amount of hits needed being equal and rounded up to the next best thing (I.E. if your infection is at 20% of being fully cured, Intestinal Whip applies 33%+13% to round it up to 66%, now you need one Whip to apply Leeched 1); regurgitate still functions the same since it applies a full Leech 1 meter when hit.
PASSIVE
- Leeched is removed when you are hooked
- the effectiveness of Leeched is reduced by 50% if it's applied within 16m of a hooked survivor and for 5 seconds after an unhook
This is the easier route of the two, Singularity and Wesker both have their infections removed or brought down to basically none when you're hooked, this is specifically meant to avoid them easily tunneling a survivor out after being unhooked.
For the life of me I cannot understand why Krasue is the exception to this rule considering how easily she can apply Leeched and catch up and injure leeched survivors.
It's a very simple solution, if you're hooked, your Leeched fully empties, and to avoid being immediately re-leeched and the effectiveness of Regurgitate and Intestinal Whip is reduced in a 16m radius of the hook and for about 5 ish seconds after (cause we don't want her to become TOO harmless in the face of the End Game collapse or a Bumrush by the entire team).
Head Form is far too strong for how little counterplay it has
I'm not gonna lie, head form has a LOT of busted things about it, but I'll try to keep it short with the suggestions so that I'm not gutting the killer entirely.
But first:
Put a small stagger in Body Form after The Krasue regurgitates and SLIGHTLY increase the cooldown of Regurgitate
seriously why can she attack so quickly after spitting and have her spit so often, its' kind of ridiculus being smacked 0.2 seconds after she spits…
and with that out of the way!
Head Form: Headlong Flight
Not gonna lie her flight is the least egregious part of her kit, no changes needed here I think 😁(maybe a slightly longer "pause" window before she can hit you with Whip, but honestly she's fine with it right now)
Head Form: Vault
Now THIS is the part of her kit that's busted, I already mentioned that her vault feels similar to release Good Guy, but she takes it to another level.
It's no surprise that having a killer that can vault freely over pallets and windows is… a BIT broken (and I'm putting the "bit" VERY lightly); they tried nerfing this a tad, but it's not enough.
But then you also have the problem that she can Whip you post-vault super quickly, it's kind of nuts
There's a couple of ways I can suggest this being toned down, they don't have to necessarily be all bundled up, so I'll divide them based on what they nerf:
Vault, nerf 1
- The Krasue can only vault during Headlong Flight, consuming a bit of charges per vault
- Vaulting applies the same cooldown as if you manually ended Headlong Flight to prevent instant hits
- Vault speed in Headlong Flight reduced from 1.6 seconds to 1.3 seconds
Plain and simple, we're taking the Good Guy nerf route of making her Head Form vaults only available during headlong flight; not exactly super great considering Good Guy's only issue with his Scamper was due to the pallet vaults, but it's the best you can do without jumbling the killer into a "she can vault windows freely, but not pallets".
Alongside this since her Headlong Flight gets canceled after a vault, she gets the same cooldown as if she would manually end it to prevent her from just instantly whipping as she gets to the other side; to compensate her vault speed would be slightly increased to accomodate.
Vault, nerf 2
- A slight cooldown is applied after vaulting where The Krasue cannot Intestinal Whip of 1 second;
- Vaulting as the Krasue creates a damage bubble inside her that injures and Downs survivors who go inside her Head Form
Another very simple route, if Krasue can vault freely then she needs to have a slight cooldown before being able to hit, nothing too crazy, just 1 second is enough
"but what if the survivor vaults back after I hop over?"
Already thought of that, Wesker and Ghoul have a damage bubble, Krasue gets one too to punish cheeky Survivors who may try to double back.
Head Form: Intestinal Whip
You'd think I'd have a paragraph ready for this part of her Head Form, but not really, she only really needs minor tweaks and they're as follows:
- Improve hit detection
- Decrease the time where the Krasue ignores obstructions from 0.6 to 0.3 seconds
- SLIGHTLY increase the windup time of Intestinal Whip from 0.2 to 0.3 seconds
Yeah no that's it, Intestinal Whip is fine
End Notes
In general, I do like the Krasue, but she is FAR too rewarding for how little skill is needed to use her properly (and I can't imagine how good she'll get once people master her fully if she hasn't already); this is not helped by the lack of serious counterplay on the Survivor side.
I hope this feedback can help BHVR and I hope I'm not too sleep deprived to have accidentally gutted her with these mild suggestions.
Comments
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Eat your mushrooms or krasue will make you regret it.
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yeah ill eat it and it takes 2-5 business days to work they need to change it like this post states and make Krause not injury you if you ate a mushroom in tier 1 , because at the moment you eat one and she can still injury you for a good amount of time. ( and with her kit she will hit you if she knows what she's doing
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I feel like we should remove her autoaim first and foremost. See what it will do.
In the meantime, a funfact: You can crouch tech her on any kind of elevation.
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they wont do that sadly. I feel like they did that for the console players, as much as I hate the autoaim , I feel like devs are going to be very cautious with changing it sadly.
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the longer they take to fix this killer the more people are going to dc. still every match people will dc v this killer
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The killer is fine, she wasn't op before either. People just deny to learn, classic.
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