What's the hate on Pig?
If any of you main Pig (such as myself) then you would know how badly BHVR has treated our main recently.
First towards the beginning of the year, there was the first "Consistency change" that BHVR made towards Pig. Being that, she has her TR bumped up from 28 meters to 32 meters. While 4 meters sounds like nothing, do keep in mind it is a radius, meaning that it increased in 4 meters in every direction around Pig. Even then, it is a stealth killer. Who cares if they have a slightly smaller TR? It's literally part of the character to be less noticeable.
Secondly, the "logical change" that came with the release of the End Game Collapse. Traps no longer activate after the last gen is done. While I can understand why this change was implemented, it was done extremely poorly. Instead of having it to where trapped survivors being on the map simply just slowed down the timer for the EGC, instead they just decided to hard nerf that part of her kit. Making Endgame Pig significantly harder to pull off (Albeit still possible just very hard to pull off). Very cool.
Lastly, the new changes regarding her (h)ambush. According to the patch notes, they "Fixed an issue" that caused Pig's ambush to count as a basic attack. Well for such a glaring issue, it took almost 2 years for them to fix it. Not to mention you can find several videos on Youtube (and probably Twitch) that shows her ambush can in fact instadown. Not to mention it probably wasn't a bug to begin with. With how coding works they went to the line that contained the information regarding if her ambush counted as a basic attack and set it to =False instead of =True.
Just why? Not many people complain about Pig or even PLAY Pig anymore. So why does she keep getting nerfed? BHVR please, stop nerfing Pig. Other Killers deserve more attention regarding changes than her (Billy, Nurse, Spirit, Legion, Clown etc) so can you just, leave her alone or revert back some of these changes please? Because I honestly enjoyed release Pig more than I enjoy her now after all the nerfs.
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Look at demogorgon getting his ultra rare red moss into his basekit when for millions of decades people have been asking for Rule set No.2 to be put in her basekit and they just ignored that. I guess when devs get angry they take there anger out on pig bc they seem to really like nerfing her alot for no reason.
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See the thing is, having Rule Set be baseline would actually hurt her. Because survivors when they see that the boxes don't have auras, they will just do gens and then remove traps normally. So I'm actually glad they have ignored that in all honesty.
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You are literally the only person that thinks survivors doing gens with the trap on is a bad thing
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Uhm, the entire point of the Reverse Bear Trap is for them to NOT do gens. It is called a stall power afterall.
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I have to agree that Pig hasn't gotten the best updates outside the gate when the DLC dropped, and following after...
But by no means is she bad, shes actually very good at wasting Survivors time in a Trial when effectively using her. The RBTs (Reverse Bear Traps) can be used as a catalyst to not focus on killing them... but to waste their time removing them.
I have a build focused on capitalizing on Survivors wasting time getting the RBT off, and lemme tell you, it works wonders. Especially with Pop goes the Weasel, this perk will regress gens heavily when you hook a Survivor with a RBT, and keep it regressing until they take it off and go back to said gen.
Idk how many times I've done this where Survivors just waste so much time getting a RBT off while the gen they had at 80% or something went back to 20%/10%0% its honestly crazy... Ruin + Pop goes the Weasel on Pig is a god tier combo, the other two can honestly be anything... BBQ, Brutal Strength, Surveillance to keep track of gens, Surge, Overcharge, anything really that focuses on regressing gens.
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Regarding the exposed ambush bug fix, it was indeed a fix to a recent bug, whenever her ambush was no longer considered a basic attack it was still affected by the exposed effect, which wasn’t supposed to be happening so yes, it is a bug fix.
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im a pig main that doesnt really agree its a bad thing... make it baseline, then we can screw over the survivors who decide to do a gen first. tampered timer, and Jigsaw's sketch. much higher risk of their head going pop. fine by me. they'll still have to waste time with boxes but under more stress.
or they try to get it off before gens and waste even more time. i dont see a losing scenario here.
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You missed the part about how it was in the game for almost two years didn't you?
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Yeah Pop is a really good perk to run on Pig. I used to run it myself but I find myself switching between Corrupt Intervention and Ruin at times.
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No I didn’t, I was telling you that the exposed effect is not meant to effect her ambush anymore so it was a bug, your play time doesn’t change that.
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Honestly if you pair pop with ruin or corrupt, it makes the game a lot slower for Survivors... You can also thank RBTs for their potential to instill fear of death into Survivors lmao.
It truly does portray the source material they took from the SaW films, and that's something I found the most interesting, and overall cool about it.
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That's not how coding works lmao. I literally explained what they did to change the coding to make exposed not be affected by her ambush. That's not a bug, that's a outright nerf. Besides even if it was a bug, nobody had an issue with it to begin with. It was still a pointless change that was a nerf to Pig overall.
How you view it does not change that.
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Personally for me, I run BBQ, Ruin/Corrupt, Monitor and Abuse, and Save the Best for Last. I usually run this because it really compliments my playstyle. Although I do run a variety of other builds of her (Benefits of having all perks on one killer baby!).
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They changed her ambush to not be a basic attack, chainsaws and hatchets(with add ons) are the only non-basic attacks able to insta-down, therefore Pig isn’t supposed to currently be able to insta-down with her ambush but she was able to despite her ambush not being a basic attack, so it is indeed a bug.
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You make my head hurt.
You contradicted yourself in your own post
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Overall, Pig can be a threat in the right hands indeed.
Is she noob friendly though? Lol no... And that's something they should really focus on if they want more people to play her. It shouldn't have to only be enjoyable to people that can use her, it should be enjoyable for all players of skill and playtime.
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Read my comment again, I explained why it was a bug quite clearly.
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You also stated they changed it....
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Yes, they changed her ambush to not be a basic attack, so it isn’t supposed to expose but it was still affected by it, so exposed effect working was a bug after the change (which I already said).
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But you missed they part where they CHANGED IT which makes it by definition a NERF
smh some people I swear
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But you missed the point that it was bugged after the change, which was my whole point.
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At some point, they decided her ambush wasn't considered a basic attack anymore. So they changed it.
But the exposed effect was getting triggered from it. That was a bug.
They fixed it.
And like @Mookywolf said
There's literally no scenario where making ruleset number 2 basekit doesn't end up with pig winning
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It doesn't make her win, it just makes it easier for her to make Survivors stall the game.
If you face Survivors with you know... a brain... than they'll do gens and THAN get the RBT off. If they all have a RBT on, and than a gens done, its literally a GG for someone because they're all on boxes and waiting lmao.
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It sucks because I feel your pain. I used to love playing the Pig and she was one of the first killers I leveled up to max right away, but after her nerfs I just don't feel the urge to play her ever anymore. The fact that Survivors couldn't escape at the end without taking off their traps (unless they found the hatch which is fair game) just made her unique and fun to play.
Now it seems like anytime they don't like the way another killer looks at them they nerf the Pig as punishment.
Also I remember when pig first came out and one of her challenges was getting a head pop and I actually managed to get one and finish that daily challenge.. I really wish there was a legacy achievement or some bonus for getting that before it was removed. I felt pretty accomplished for something I had nothing to do with but was still incredibly hard to do, haha.
He wasn't talking about his play time.. he was talking about a bug that had been in the game for two years.
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+1, no idea why she has gotten creamed by the devs, she was never above B tier to start with. Doing anything at all to hurt her was a bad mistake, and if changes were truly necessary (with the creation of end game collapse), she should have gotten a buff somewhere else. Really hope they fix her, she isn't in a good spot.
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A g r e e d. +1
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Just because the patch notes say "fixed" instead of "nerfed" doesn't make this a bug. The ambush was always a basic attack and has been changed to be a power hit now, that doesn't mean it was ever bugged, just that it wasn't a consideration initially.
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I think the problem with pig is that you need to decide, if you want to play with the ambush or with the traps.
Because the other part will be not useful without addons. I don't understand why pig needs so long for her to crouch. Tbh I hope they will buff her any time soon.
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I've mained Pig since day 1. I have played her addonless to Rank 1 (and only play without addons now), perkless to Rank 1, gotten all perks, P3ed her, etc etc etc. I have a lot of time with Pig under my belt, so I think I have the credentials to actually know what is wrong with her and whatnot.
To start off, I'd revert her TR back to 28 meters. That was such a stupid nerf anyways.
Secondly, I'd make her traps still activate during the time period between the exit gates being opened and the last gen being powered. That dead zone where nothing is really going on. All gens are done, all thats needed to be done is for the EGC to start.
Thirdly, I'd change all of her affliction addons for her traps (Outside of Slow Release Toxin they are all kinda garbage), Rework Amanda's Secret and Amanda's Letter, along with adding or tweaking a few numbers with the other addons.
Lastly, I would make her ambush count as a basic attack again. Along with having it being affected by the CD reduction of perks like STBFL and Unrelenting. It really is nothing more than a really long lunge. It SHOULD count as a basic attack if you ask me.
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The reason is that over 90% of Pigs tunnel the first survivor they see and prioritize hunting a player with a trap on their head instead of dealing with survivors who are on generators. And that's when Pig isn't crouching near the hook for a free Insidious camp and tunnel. The devs clearly suffered from this and are doing everything in their power to reduce the number of Pig players so they can enjoy the game.
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While you would be correct that most Pig players play like that (which hurts me on an emotional and spiritual level) that's not a good reason to punish the people that play her well.
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A Pig main is literally on the dev team so they don't hate the Pig. I imagine she's doing fine and there are very few instances where this even matters. There's only one big one, which is NOED. I don't think they want a NOED that can be hit from that far away.
As for what Groot is saying, you're referencing the BUG, which was that DESPITE the lunge being no longer counted as a basic attack, it was STILL proccing exposed effects. So this WAS a fix, not a nerf. You could argue that BEFORE the BUGFIX, where they actually CHANGED the attack to a non-basic attack, was a nerf, but that's not what you're referencing in your main post. You're referencing something that happened AFTER they changed it to be a non-basic attack.
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Pig was the first killer I really fell in love with, I'd play her all the time if her powers didn't feel so useless. I hope she gets her day in the sun.
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Agreed Pig needs some work when it comes to the Reverse Bear Trap element. There is no pressure when EGC starts.
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I asked a question about it in the Q&A for stranger things thread, but I'm sure the dev's skipped over it. Here was the post I had.
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It's a very confusing time for us pig mains I don't really understand it seems like every dlc drop something is done to her and I have no idea why.
The thing that annoys me is that now you have to be more picky about your perks because yes you can still use most of them but...
say I'm chasing a survior and I need to dash to mimdgame a palet or something and my dash around happens at the same time as haunted ground is broken.
Your not going to get that down you can of course get it but after chasing them back down... but it just feels wrong. It takes away that perk in essance because pig is punished it feels like it to me.
I guess because she's my girl she's not strong she's just pig I never see anyone complain about her either I just feel sad that they keep making these changes to her.
I can only hope this is part of some crazy plan when if they ever get around to working on her add ons and these things are required to be done for a reason.
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To be honest tho you can nurf my girl into the ground and I'd still love her and choose her over all the other killers
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- Endgame pig build was a cheap way to get ez kills, I’m glad they removed it.
- Ambush is not a basic attack, fixing it was a right thing to do.
- TR change was done for consistency, I wouldn’t mind reverting that tho.
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I would agree if you but for the most part survivors tend to do generators regardless if reverse bear traps are in play or not.
2 minutes and 30 seconds is a lot of time to take the bear trap off. So it's become a massive non threat to some survivors to the point where they will even do generators whilst they have a bear trap on them or that other survivors just do a generator whilst the trap Survivor is on the hook then rescue them.
So the question becomes why am I using an ultra rare add-on for an effect that could be so easily negated and ignored?
Post edited by Volfawott on1 -
Pig is a simply a casualty of the foolish EGC Change, something which no survivor wanted. I blame the idiots whining about hatch standoffs for this one.
The "ambush bug" is real, or even if it isn't under no circumstance should pig's ambush instadown. If it was instadowning people then it's only correct that it got nerfed/fixed.
The Terror Radius nerf is a nerf, but it's hardly anything to whine about. First off, smaller terror radius isn't necessarily better and second of all you can CROUCH so it's no big deal.
You're whining a little too much, I get that Pig is not in a good spot right now but you're reading a little too much into it. This is just the sad fact of the EGC. Nobody is out to get Pig.
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Change =/= Nerf
I mean look at DS....
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I agree with the post.
Pig is pretty dang close to being a decently strong killer and just needs some small changes.
The traps not activating after last gen pop just doesn't make any sense at all and needs to be reverted.
Remove the roar entirely from her ambush or make it on hit. Even at the end of charging isn't good enough imo. The sound ruins a lot of the ambushes viability against good survivors.
Raise the crouch view point. The camera angle is just too low and ruins a lot of its functionality.
Rule Set #2 base kit.
Letter needs the trap reduction downside removed. It's a good addon but not good enough to even warrant this downside.
She also has quite a few other addons that are just bad and need reworking.
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@Peppa_Pigsaw I think Groot is saying they are making every attack that's not a M1 attack don't count as a basic attack for consistancy purposes.
It was a bug that ambush attacks were counted as a basic attack because they were not a M1 attack - it's a M2 attack.
It can be a nerf if you let it be one. For example, Save The Best For Last doesn't lose tokens when you Ambush Attack your Obsession. :)
Edit: My grammar is awesome "It's was" 😂
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My question is why have not other killers been brought in line why is just pig? Maybe they have and that might be a stupid question.. I am sure spirit can apply exposed while coming out of phase but sorry if I'm confused here.
I think it's more of a case us piggy mains feel alittle upset it is alot of changes to her and I will always completely understand even though I don't understand or think it's needed.
But I do shake my head at how some people choose to play her in all honestly. That's why pig can't have nice things always some that will abuse things to just be unfair or unfun.
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The problem with the whole time waste factor for the RBTs is that it is not consistent. When you get the good end of RNG, you do get a noticable amount of time, which is good. But when RNG turns against you, your Traps feel like they hardly do anything at all, which is REALLY bad. It's just a complete roll of the dice in regards to whether you actually get a reasonable amount of game stall from the Traps or not. What makes it even worse is that this can extend to her RBT add-ons too, where you are still able to get bad RNG while using them, which just means they go to waste in those cases.
I think she is one of the better weak Killers, but I still think she is weak.
"Also I remember when pig first came out and one of her challenges was getting a head pop"
Lolwut. That was actually a daily challenge at one point? Lol, unless that challenge paid you in Auric Cells, that is hilariously unreasonable.
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The devs hate the pig
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I think that's because Wraith, Nurse, and Spirits attacks are all M1 attacks. They just give additional bonus and scores for Blood Points because of using the killer power. Whereas Pigs Ambush Attack is literally a separate button. I do think Pigs Ambush should still apply status effects like exposed, sloppy, blindness, mangled, etc though.
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I should point something out that you probably didn't realize at the time of making your post but the 4 meters actually does mean something for the pig.
1 : Pig's stealth is the only form of stealth that actually slows you down (to 92% or otherwise 3.68 m/s) making it harmful to stay crouched for long periods of time. This is unlike Wraith who actually moves faster while cloaked and Ghostface who is not hindered by his stealth unless he goes out of his way to crouch.
2 : To continue off from my point above, before the terror radius change you could just use whispers to know exactly when to crouch to minimize the time wasted by crouching. Now with the change you must run whispers with monitor & abuse, thus hurting her perk variety as two perks must be used to make optimal use of her crouching.
I would agree that the terror radius change isn't a big deal if it weren't for the fact that doing so decreases your movement speed. That's just something I wanted to point out.
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From a survivor standpoint, pig does not feel like a threat, even when I have an RT on my head, simply because there is a large amount of time to get it off your head without addons. If I'm correct, it's only 150 secs (2:30 mins), which is almost the equivalent of 2 whole generators, given they were done individually and also not simultaneously. Then the RNG kicks in and a lot of the time, I'm able to get it off on my first box, but may just be my luck.
Tbh, I think it's a solid idea to have the first jigsaw box you search will not contain your key and after you search that box, RNG kicks in for the other boxes, unless you are using Amanda's Letter where there is normal RNG. I don't know whether or not the devs could code it like that but that would stall the game much more, fulfilling the purpose of her Jigsaw's Baptism, which is to stall.
Other than that, I agree with the changes that her TR should return to 28m and that her traps should activate during the powered exit gates phase before EGC.
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