Why do the Dev's keep dodging gentimes?

This is really positive. The problem I've always had with ruin is that it can give me an undeserved win if it takes a long time to find or effectively causes a loss when it gets cleansed immediately. It's almost impossible to balance across that range. Once it is gone, fixing gen times will be so much easier. They WILL fix the gen times.

It reminds me of the Balanced Landing nerf. If they didn't remove its secondary effect, every new map would have to be balanced both with and without balanced landing.

I like how the dev answer isn't accepted

SWF can no longer manipulate matchmaking, as matchmaking bases it around the highest rank survivor in the group rather then the average. If a rank 1 survivor is bringing a rank 20 into the game, they are bringing that rank 20 into a red game. The rank 20 is more harmful to his own team then they are to the killer (unless the rank 20 is a smurf).

This is just an estimation from my experience, but I would say Hex:Ruin covers up about 1-2 minutes on average per game. It can be zero if the map has bad totem placements and it can also be entire match. The odd chance that it lasts entire match is when all or most of the team decides to look for ruin and fail to find it, so eventually potato survivors figure out that working through it would been faster. This is also where some people report that "I did 4-5 generators" in 1 game, it comes from that. Normally speaking, the killer should win in such situations for free, though the killer can fail and you can make a comeback. This is also why i'm sure when most people read the post, it was a bit shocking to listen to someone say "Hex:Ruin is a late game perk" because that's precisely why other hex:totem perks are not used at all. they don't make it to the end game in the first place.

Ok I get that about toxic SWF teams but there are killers out there that is just as toxic before during and after the game. When survivors cry about face camping, tunneling, and slugging.... killer mains say the same thing "just learn to play the game". YOUR right I don't play killer but I do see things from a killer perspective as well yes I can see how SWF can be frustrating for a killer but so can doing a gen by yourself with or without a tool box or being targeted by the killer because you just got unhooked..... What Im saying is there are more things wrong with the game other than reworking perks and taking away from killers or survivors.

If you know red rank killers are using it, then you'd know that gen speed can be really fast, even with ruin and most games it doesn't even last longer than a minute. But when it does, it can be the difference between winning and losing cause the survivors waste time looking for it, when with the new ruin, why would they ever need to look for it?

Actually it's like when Riot removed Kleptomancy and didn't change Ezreal to make up for it, specifically so they could see the magnitude of the impact first.

Dude, the problem is that we killers don't necessarily trust you'll follow through on that after the nerf.

Like when all charge times were supposed to be buffed the 15% that Tinkerer added when that perk was changed and you guys just never did it and everyone forgot. We'd har far more trust and confidence about what's happening to ruin if you'd kept that promise.

Also your data collection methodology should be subject to more in house scrutiny IMO because it seems so oddly disconnected from people's experiences.

not a difference. They could have instead looked at the players that don't use klepto. But they didn't

that makes sense actually, even if we don't have to forget that RUIN is an HEX, I mean, me and many others that play since 2016 (maybe early 2017 for me) learned to play and get good with RUIN on, that perk taught us to hide, get better in skillchecks, look for totem and even learn how to hold the killer longer.

Now ofc ruin has become necessary for low mobility killers in high ranks, we re going to have killers like trapper,clown, myers and bubba just disappear at high ranks, and it's a sin.

My question is, new kids can't do like us? learn to become good thru a more challenging game?

If an update of ruin was needed, it was not by replacing it with a perk that simply can't do nothing good, and especially nerfing it before assuring that gen rush would not make the game unfun, resulting in a deep unbalance untill a solution will be found, and at the risk to lose many players before it happens.

im sorry, but isnt the simple fact that more than 80% of the high rank playerbase uses the exact same perk and sees it as a "mandatory killer perk" proof enough that something might be wrong there?

like, even with old ruin there was an constantly ongoing debate about gens being done too fast - and ive seen sooo many people agreeing to that. it is really surprising to me that you didnt see that.

again:

i support these changes, but i can not support the time they get implemented. you should have done something about gen speed first.

it doesnt even have to be overall genspeed, but early game gen speed. earlygame is what ruin was used for, earlygame is where killers have literally no map pressure and survivors have all cards in their hands. they have a full team, they have all the pallets and windows, the killer hasnt been able to get a snowball going on yet, etc.

I just wonder, could not you guys check the actual matches without ruin to find out where the problem was before nerfing a perk that (sadly) right now determines the balance (and fun) of a big amount of players?

I forgot about this! Thank you!

I enjoy how 80% of this thread is just Peanits getting owned by people pointing out obvious flaws in the dev's logic