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If you play both Survivor and Killer, are you happy or upset about the Ruin change overall?
I've been thinking ever since it was announced, initially I thought it was too much of a nerf... I still think it is honestly. But as someone who plays 50/50 I honestly think my joy of not having to worry about my teammates being unable to work through Ruin overshadows my displeasure as a killer. I can replace Ruin, but the ability to not worry of 2-3 teammates literally doing nothing until Hex Ruin is found is a greater benefit to me.
I don't think there is any right answer here, and please let's not argue that's been done to death. Just curious what other people that do both roles almost equally think.
Comments
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i like their idea of new ruin.
it could be buffed a little, honestly, though i am happy with what they did there.
what i am NOT happy with is that they implemented it now.
they should have waited until they came up with an solution to fix the ridiculous survivor objective time.
but just taking away something mandatory to many many players without compensating for what they took is wrong imo.
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I like the idea of it, but it indicates another band-aid fix for a much larger problem they chose not to fix. That is BHVR's favorite thing it seems, avoiding actual problems.
They should fix the larger overall problems with things like matchmaker, objective speed, and so on- and THEN start fixing things like perks and adjusting values.
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if new ruin was just a new perk I would be VERY happy, but since It is costing old ruin, it is terrible.
this is a terrible choice to do without addressing the REASON behind why so many use ruin, which is a bandaid for bad map design and gen speeds.
they removed the bandaid without addressing the problem. terrible change
if they waited till they fixed
- gen times
- map balance
- matchmaking
THEN nerfed ruin, then I would be ok with it since the game would no longer need ruin. we are not in that situation, far from it
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I don't mind the nerf, i have wanted to experiment with different builds anyways.
I am a little upset because of their reasoning. They are catering to new survivors by taking away something that killers of all ranks use at a pretty significant rate.
The new ruin doesn't sound very good and nothing else was done about the real problem of gen speeds.
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I'm happy with the ruin change. I think that it needed to come alongside a base-game change, but since I don't even use ruin, it doesn't bother me as killer.
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I like the new change. Any Perk that affects the game as much as Ruin does should be given this treatment. That's on both sides of the coin though, not just Killers. I actually do not use Ruin at all in any of my builds, but in its new state, I may consider it. It won't be such a moth to the flame as it is currently.
Hopefully they address the issues that Ruin was covering up though. I think they will, you need both Survivors and Killers to play the game, but faith is a dwindling commodity at times. It definitely could've been marketed to players better. Coming out with a statement that is heavily biased is not a good thing, especially when you are changing a Perk that is so heavily used in the community. That alone would've made the transition much smoother.
There's just too many alarmists and people trying to play up reactions for the benefit of their subs. I've heard this game is dying so many times in the past, and it's still around. It will still be around for as long as the devs support it. It's a really great game, it just has a few issues that need corrected. As long as I can play a match reasonably well though, I'll be here for it.
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Survivor: Very happy. We've all had those moments where the game spams 10 skillchecks at you in a span of 10 seconds and you struggle to hit some of them and it can feel so frustrating and tiring. Seeing no progress all because of a silly little skillcheck. Often you'd work through Ruin just for it to get to 90%, a survivor to go down next to your gen and the kill comes and kicks it with Pop. It can feel so frustrating spending so long on a gen for little payoff.
I have days where I can hit them all but it's hard to play perfect all the time and it can be dull playing against Ruin everygame for the above reasons. Also I'm convinced Ruin increased the amount of skillchecks, absolutely convinced.
Also I'm fed up of those crutch killers who take a top tier killer, instasaw, iri heads etc then Ruin AND Noed on top. If you need Ruin and NOED then you're definitely popped up by crutches. Just pick one.
Killer: Kind of disappointed but not that much. I've been trying to transition away from it for a while anyway because for me the totem disappears within the first minute, often the first 30 seconds and it feels like a wasted perk slot. Joys of swf I guess. I've been experimenting with Corrupt Intervention and I'm happy with the results. Takes away the survivors 20 second free gen time by forcing them to go into the map and find new gens, also helps you get early game pressure by shrinking the map. That's all I wanted really, I don't need Ruin to last longer than that. Just something to stop a survivor immediately jumping on a gen right at the start. Also Discordance works wonders too as many times 2 survivors will spawn and jump on a gen together so right at the start of the trial you get information on which gen to check out first.
These are consistent perks. They aren't luck based like Ruin which could last 30 seconds or 10 minutes. So I'll have a better gauge of my skill level and more consistent games.
As for new Ruin I have little interest. My biggest complaint about old Ruin was how quickly that totem got cleansed so I have no interest in a totem that becomes more effective over time. It's the same reason I don't use Huntress lullaby as it's likely to be gone before it becomes effective. Only Devour is worth the risk due to the massive payoff if it works.
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As a survivor, I kinda liked the extra challenge Ruin provided. Without it, doing gens is boring as crap.
As killer, I rarely used it. I don't like hexes because of how fragile they are. So, because of that, new Ruin is just as useless to me as old Ruin. There's one build where I use Ruin, and I will miss it for that purpose. New Ruin doesn't take the place of old Ruin at all.
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I'm not happy with the reasoning and seemingly stubbornness shown from BHVR about the change. I can get behind a Perk being reworked or changed, Decisive Strike & Pop Goes the Weasel are Prime Examples of how to go about it....Ruin is, imo not.
The biggest gripe many Killer players have, is that Gens can possibly be done way too fast in the early game. Some Killers can deal with that with their Abilties & Perk loadouts to cause pressure & disruption...some are not as able to handle that early game issue and have used Ruin as a way to potentially allow setup or begin applying pressure. The change to Ruin becomes more mid game applicable and some endgame applicable.....what it doesn't allow is early game use.
Ergo, this change can hurt Killer players, especially ones seen as lower tier and/or needing extra set-up time/wiggle room to apply proper pressure. The reasoning for the change BHVR gave was nonsensical, claiming new Survivors hated it and was unfun....based on data for higher ranks....it just culminates into the feeling oh BHVR stepping on us to let the "new Survivors" walk across. Imo, the changes Killers would want are Gen times looked at, problematic Maps wholly reworked and/or possibly extra objectives for Survicord to do.....not endgame pressure...which us Killers already have an abundance of resources for that...
This all doesn't even take into consideration the matchmaking being abysmal at times for both sides, nor how godawful Totem placement STILL is for this game. Making the new rework even worse as a Hex Perk. I feel like BHVR is panic changing these, because the only people who could hate Ruin...are people unwilling to learn & practice against it or lazy players. I learned to hit Ruin Skill checks over time, not perfectly, but pretty consistently....it ..isnt...difficult..
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I am so happy as Survivor bcs I will not gonna deal with this #########.
As Killer, I feel nothing bcs I don’t use it, it’s too unreliable perk.
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I think the only people happy about it are survivor mains because they either dont play killer at all r only in low ranks.
On one hand its slightly less annoying to play survivor....but I win most of the games anyway. On the other hand I now have to deal with even faster gen rushing as killer.
2 interesting things tho
Most people talk about replacing ruin not using it so we can all agree that it wasnt balanced but replaced with a middle tier perk that's only useful at all if you build around it on the right killer. Which is a shame because the killers who will struggle to get use out of it are the same ones that needed it most (This really a clown nerf if you think about it)
And anyone that tries to legitimately justify the removal of ruin always talk about how theyre happy because bad survivors wont weigh them down.....a perk was removed because bad survivors couldn't handle it. And the devs even said that bad survivors will still have a tough time with it but I dont think anyone was using ruin to try and beat rank 20s lol.
And I think I know the pain of survivors not doing gens at all if theres ruin more than anyone.....but wouldn't it make more sense to just fix ranks?
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I think people don't realise skill check prompts are random. Gens can be done with 0 skill check prompts.
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Neither, i just continue.
I barely ever used Hex: Ruin, and the tactic i use to face Hex: Ruin won't change at all once the patch arrives.
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When I first read it I couldn't understand if I still had to kick it or not to get the affect. Watched some streamers, saw it was an automatic regression basically, and felt pretty happy.
Ill miss old Ruin as a Survivor, i didn't see it to much but when I did it could help make things interesting by being a great skill check trainer.
As a Killer, Ive had it on like, 2 Killers, my Wraith amd Demodog. I actually prefer the new Ruin since ill be able to get right to the chase, whereas old Ruin felt like "I might get two minutes, might get 2 seconds" while new Ruin feels like it may last a bit longer. Plus add in Surveillance, my favorite Pig perk, and Ill have a decent map awareness in some games.
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I don't care enough to ######### about nerfs
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It was annoying to face as a solo because my team likes wandering around looking for it, and as killer I never even tried it. Won't affect me too much but I think it's healthy.
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I have gone from a 50:50 to a probably 80:20 or 90:10 in favour of survivor playtime once those changes go through. I don't want to be a punching bag for survivors and have the games done in 5 - 10 mins MAX.
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I'm okay with the change. I'm just not okay with them nerfing it before fixing the problem ruin was implemented as a bandaid fix for.
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This change came at the wrong time.
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I only play GF and Legion and both of them revolve around ruin, bbq/nurse , thana, sloppy. I swap sloppy with pop for legion. Might hurt my gen slowdown since that is ruin job. Definetly am not going to enjoy playing on large map.
Sure surveilance+ruin combo is nice but I like BBQ for extra BP. Conflicted on removing it for surveilance since my build revolve around trackin healing survivor rather than gen. Not liking having to swap a perk slot for it.
As a survivor, at least my team can do gen now even if everyone is potato at looping. Might enjoy playing survivor more if slugging or camping doesn't become the new meta. Loving the Feng min new cosmetic might put some more bloodpoint into getting her my fav perk build.
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Survivor: I'm not a potato with half a brain so I can hit skill checks. Ruin was literally a non issue for me.
Killer: I was angry at first. Less so about the change, more about the language used in the notes. They basically deleted a killer perk, replacing it with a far inferior version and ONLY talked about it from a survivor perspective. That was in extremely poor taste. I very rarely used Ruin tho, hex perks are too unreliable besides Haunted Grounds. Slugging is a much more reliable way to apply map pressure. Bonus points if you slug all four and let them bleed out.
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I play both and i am happy with the change.
Ruin is annoying as survivor. Though i am able to hit the skillchecks, most of my teammates aren't (solo surv) and run around useless, till ruin is finally found.
As a killer i dont rely on ruin.
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I remember the first time I hit multiple ruin checks in a row, something like 4/5 on the first gen and about the same in the second I did. I remember thinking, “cool I never have to search the totem again,” WRONG
Just like you said even at red rank half the players won’t even attempt to do gens til it’s gone
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Survivor Part: Hour long wait for a boring five minute game where I win.
Killer Part: Not playing anymore.
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Looking at all the survivor players loving even easier games at the expense of everyone that's likes fair matches as killer makes me pretty sick to my stomach. As a new survivor ayer who can't even hit great skillchecks Ruin was pretty easily countered or worked through despite slowing things down
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PERFECT summary
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Upset because the perk is garbage without any consideration to fix the core game first.
The only reason they addressing the ruin concerns in the live stream is because they're getting called out for being biased.
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It's a garbage change that from what I can tell is universally hated by everybody with a deeper understanding of the game. Get ready for those survival rates to either skyrocket and for queue times to skyrocket, as killer goes from being tolerable back to being the biggest joke since Adam Sandler's career.
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1st rank of both side
No, when I play survival I will wait around 10 min+ per match contrast with 30 sec from killer.
Lack of killer players is the main problem in red rank survivals.
I think the changing of Ruin will make more problem such as lobby waiting, camping, tunneling.
And I think new players are not happy with camping, tunneling more than Ruin problem.
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As Survivor (Rank 1) I really don't mind Ruin, I'm hitting the Greats most times anyway. And on those days where I seem cursed to only hit Greats when ruin is gone, the totem dies in 1min.
And if the killer has no Ruin and has no natural Gen pressure like Freddy, Billy, Spirit etc. then matches are way too fast. Depending on your team, you can rarely get any altruism points, which hurts your emblems.
As Killer (rank 7) I know that there are some slower killers who need Ruin in the early game, because they build up their power (Myers, Oni, Trapper etc.). I tried Corrupt, but that is just not an option most times. And then there are killers that need Ruin the whole game (f.e. Wraith and Bubba) for most times.
Of course there are good players who can do well without Ruin, but even they struggle against optimal teams when Ruin is equipped.
I think the Ruin change is unneeded. If newer players struggle with it, then better fix the problem (Gen times) first, before changing the perk. The usage rate does not come from nowhere, you know.
I had an own idea how to change it to not punish new players, but more experienced ones by shrinking the Great Skillcheck Zones the more gens are done (or the other way round considering Hex perks do not last long).
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Poor Timing.
Poor Execution.
Poor Communication.
Poor Consideration.
Poor Priority.
It's just poor....
I hated old ruin but changing It before you fix the reason why It was used as much as It was, Is just dumb. These are the type of changes that WILL kill this game.
I literally have no desire to play either side now, It's a shame, It's been my favorite game for a long time now.
That has changed. So If I feel this way, I can only imagine the way others feel that don't even like this game nearly as much as I do.
Poor Choices.
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The survivor main side of me is overjoyed I no longer have to waste half of the time looking for ruin while the killer main side of doesn't care (I play hag and spirit so I dont really need it) But I think its a horrible decision and is beginning the process of fully killing this game
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Horrible, horrible change.
Such a tone-deaf change from the devs.
Won't even be able to find games as survivor anymore because all the killers will disappear. When you do find one it will either be a super low rank killer or an actual good super try-harding with moris because that's what it will take to have what feels like a fair game for them without ruin.
Killer lobbies will pop super fast, and at rank 1 I'll still get lots of 4k's because the devs have destroyed matchmaking. Most games I go against low rank survivors as a rank 1 killer... The few games I get that have survivors close to my skill level will be a hilariously easy game for the survivors if the map is one of the large number of terrible maps.
Devs don't care about high rank gameplay if they go through with this change.
Post edited by Omans on2 -
Upsad, I just used ruin on Killers that needs to prepare at the start of the game "Myers, Trapper, Hag" and I never had a problem with Ruin. I just hated it when potato survivors were to scared to touch a gen when Ruin was active. What was really annoying but overall, I think the new Ruin is a really cool and interesting perk, it just doesn't deserve to be a hex anymore for my opinion. We all know totems will never stay longer then a min but what did we learned from almo? iTs vErY pOwErFuLl iN lAtE GaMe.
What makes me the most upsad, they should've do something with the gens aswell while they planned to nerf ruin. The nerf of the Ruin was kinda at the "wrong" time, now the genrush of swf will be even stronger and low tier killers will be even worse now.
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I am not so happy with the upcoming changes (yet). I think Ruin is not the main issue, there are way more problems which need to be fixed in combination.
I tried to visualize those connections between different game issues here: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/119866/ruin-gen-speed-adressing-the-elephant-in-the-room#latest
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This is the most important thing, without good matchmaking, is impossible to have a good ranking system and without that it will always be impossible to do a good balancing of the game thus making perk changes always seem unfair for some and very good for others but without reliable data (because of a bad ranking system supported by a bad matchmaking system) it's really impossible to say for sure if it's a good change or not.
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Not a good change. Ruin becomes potentially OP for high-pressure killers who didn't need it in the first place and useless for the killers that needed it.
They should have just reworked it as a hex that increased base gen time to 100 sec flat, maybe disabled great skill checks and doesn't stack with other slowdown perks/add-ons while the totem is active, BUT it's also immune to genrush perks/items.
Boom, noob friendly and still works early game in favor of the killer and there are no hostage situations. If the survivors don't want to hold m1 for that long, they can simply look for the totem. Ez.
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I don't really care for the ruin changes neither as survivor (red/purple ranks) where I'm usually pushing through it, nor as killer (purple/green ranked) where my perk builds in almost every case don't contain any hex perks aside from haunted grounds.
So Ruin could even be removed from the game and it would almost make no difference to me.
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I can understand why they are nurfing it , i don t have trouble to hit great skillcheck but some people can t or this can be awfull for new player , that a good point .
Killer side well at red ranks that do anything but at lower tier ( rank 8 ) that gonna hurt killers and make them even more stressfull to play as.
I think de just need a gameplay mecanic to slow the game the first min to let lower tier killer to apply pressure.
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I play both and prefer old ruin in all honesty. Yes it's annoying, no i can't hit great skill checks. I enjoyed hunting the hex down. New ruin has just made me a survivor main, but i doubt i'll last long at that since queue times are ridiculous now. But hey, at least survivors get to have fun!
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As a survivor that CAN hit great skill checks (because apparently thats rare here) I realise that this is going to make matches shorter which means more time searching for matches and less rank points points/bp
I guess if gens are easier that means I can dick about with different builds more like sabo and MoM
As a killer it makes me not want to play anyone but spirit in red ranks anymore.
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I never use ruin on my killers so I could care less about the change.as soon as you hook one survivor they all start scrambling for the hero save so no gens getting done anyway
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so i play probably 85% survivor, 15% killer both rank 1. but i dont like the change tbh, i always did solo survivor for games to be more challenging and tense yet still fun at the same time, most games i could hit ruin skillchecks unless i was having an off day so id just get the totem which lets be honest isnt hard at all once you understand tiles. Although i believe ruin needed a change this was the wrong way about it, its made it too easier now for everyone to escape for the sake of new player. new players hardly went against ruin, you barely see it until purple ranks before it all changed. but now we have another hex not many people will use while games get easier, i also feel it takes a huge part of learning and skill from the survivor side, struggling with ruin would make you learn to hit great skill checks, lead better chases because the gens are going slower and even teach you map tiles while you looked for the totem if you needed to. but now... well if the killer doesnt break off a chase from me im expecting 2+gens per chase
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^ this. (certainly not good enough to warrant it being a hex)
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He's actually a very good actor when he plays more serious roles.. plus he has classics, and Transylvania is a major franchise
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The whole entire survivor objective should be changed anyway, no one wants to just sit on a Gen for over 80 seconds anyway and ruin was a bad perk betting on people not doing gens and looking for the totem. If people did gens with ruin and hit their skill checks gens will still be done <5 min.
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As a killer i don't like the change without adressing the issue in the same step and as a survivor i appreciate it but understand even less why genspeed is not getting adressed (both from q red rank perspective). Gens just go so fast and with ruin, even if it's active for only 20 seconds - it still slows the start down (2 people doing gens but eventually missing checks, 2 people running around for few seconds)
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Personally I like it. I never use Ruin on my killers (I prefer more active perks) and as survivors I can power though with no problem, but I won't miss the frustration of seeing teammates running around doing ######### until the totem is cleansed.
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I'm a killer main that just started playing survivor a bit,and I'm happy about the change. It needed to happen imo.
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The new ruin seems like a perk that i will enjoy playing more but it's way weaker overall
All and all i think the change will be more healthy for the game IF they look at genspeed by the next patch
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