Can we do something about hatch spawn at ZERO gens.
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There is this common misconception among killers that the hatch is there only for survivor's benefit. It's not. It's there just as much for killers. No hatch means the game will drag on for a very long time since the last survivor has no choice except to play immersed. That means less fun and bloodpoints for everyone. If you as the killer can't find the hatch first you don't deserve the kill anyway. It's not like the killer has to be careful about leaving scratch marks or anything.
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I understand what you mean, but its often is not a race to find it, but rather survivior either having a headstart or RNG giving a win to 1 of the sides immediately...
I don't want a free kill, I would like a fair competition. Something needs to chsnge about the way hatch spawns
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Glad that's what you took away from my post.
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Do you really slug for the 4k these days? You can literally play an entire extra match in the time it takes to try and find the 4th survivor.
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Depends on when it spawns... once the 3rd survivor dies on the hook... then the hatch will spawn, so at that point both survivor and killer are freely moving around. Even if it spawns during the match, you can be lucky as the killer and find it while chasing someone.
I only slug the 3rd if I need to get a challenge or achv done. Otherwise I just hook them and see what happens.
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That last kill could be the difference between a safety and a de-pip.
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It isn't a matter of fact that he didn't slug. Hes complaining about that the survivor did literally nothing and got an escape. Imagine if the killer did nothing but got a 2k anyway, completely undeserved. Whats even worse is that survivors are the power role, they SHOULD be punished if they ######### up, now rewarded.
In my opinion the hatch should just go altogether, its a really bad mechanic that rewards horrible gameplay. It would also rework keys which we know are busted.
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So what's the point of left behind then?
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If you're the last survivor, EGC should start and require you to do your 5 gens alone, or die to the entity if you try to hide.
You don't deserve a free win simply because you and your entire team played bad, and at that point the Killer does deserve their 4k.
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That doesn't make sense when the emblems themselves won't reward you points for a win if you defeat 3 survivors before they finish 2-3 gens, and then on top of that you lose gatekeeper points if you prolong the game long enough to get points in other categories to black pip/pip while survivors finish the gens.
So where should a killer feel like they won? They get 2 kills, and de-pip. They get 3 kills, and the last kill to pip get's a free win mechanic when they didn't provide enough for their team to even win or merit that win.
Because taking the hatch and escaping guarantee's they are going to get a iri survival emblem.
I'm only speaking from observation, but I find myself in Purple and Red ranks feeling like i'm taking the game hostage after killing off 1 survivor, just to max my categories to ensure at least a black pip and that's not fun for anyone. Then my single pip or double pip depends on if the 3 remaining survivors can get the last few generators or not - which btw if i'm already against a team that couldn't beat me in under 9 minutes then most killers can 3 gen the game to the 4k at that point - abusing slugging which is even more boring for survivors.
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I believe the frustration is from knowing that if you fuk up your objective as killer, you don't get any freebies at the end of the game, whilst survivors still get a second chance (third if you count Dc, 4th with BT, unbreakable, DH.. lots of crutches hu).
Not to mention keys that even speed the process.
Imagine survivors uproar if killers found random moris during a trial.
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Honestly, just deal with it. A 3K is a win in my book. If you're THAT worried about it, slug the 3rd guy. Bonus points if you use knockout and/or deerstalker.
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Imagine telling people to go play another game, when you actually need these people to have yourself a game in the first place.
And ofc you care about the Devs opinion.
They've cattered to you for so long you guys don't even have to hit skill checks anymore. Next you'll just hold the Sprint button and auto loop the killer.
Maybe they will play killers sometime in the future, so you entitled priks have someone to bully still. Cause you know, you did tell people to go play something else.
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The only issues with the hatch is DCing to get the hatch, body blocking and the fact that keys work instantly rather than having a short animation.That's it. Every other point tends to just be pissing and moaning by babies. That is further emphasized by the people crying about the ruin change in the thread.
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Well there is 4 targets to kill. That’s the killers objective. If survivors won’t do theirs, noone gets to the fookin’ hatch. I don’t care about points or pips rank doesn’t matter anyway (can’t get away from red ranks anymore). If there is no gens done, why would you take 3 ppl and give a free escape to the last one?
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The survivors objective is to survive. Getting that objective done means doing several things such as... working on gens... doing totems... escape chases... make saves... healing... hiding...
The hatch mechanic is there to give the last survivor a last fleeting chance to escape, if the other teammates fail in working to get their objective done.
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People have this idea gens are the objective.
Surviving is the survivors main and only objective. The match itself is the means to accomplish that objective.
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Or when the number of gens completed is too low, the gates could just power and EGC could start as soon as survivor 3 dies.
Game still ends quickly, survivor still has a chance it just doesn't hand them a free escape for doing nothing.
It also means there's no motivation to slowly slug the last people to prevent the hatch which makes an already bad game worse for survivors.
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Snap I didn't know devs had weighed in on this, do you have a link to the source? I always thought it was about getting more bp than three survivors as killer, or more bp than killer as survivor.
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Well then there would be literally no point for survivors to play anymore when it hits endgame as they would be completely ######### so just immerse themselves in the game and hide. Maybe if they fixed gate spawns this problem would be able to be debated but until then nah
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This isn't about the "objective", this is about playing the game and what is deserved and what isn't deserved. Just because its the survivors objective to survive doesn't make it any less BS that they literally did NOTHING all game (despite being the power role) and still survived.
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So make the game worst for the last survivor... Gotcha...
You do know they changed ruin because it was making it frustrating and unfun for newer players.
What in the world would ever make you think the Devs are going to hand the killer the 4th survivor without putting in the effort for it?
The game just doesn't revolve around one player in the game.
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The objective matters when people harp on how it is the killer's objective to kill the survivors, when it is the survivors objective to escape. How the survivor escapes is up to the survivor, regardless of how little they do in the match.
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I think you are missing the point. I don't care what the survivors objective is, Its the fact that they escape with putting no effort in. They do not deserve the escape at all and its like a killer getting a 2k while being AFK.
They should just rework how the last survivor escapes, i don't know how they would do that but currently the hatch rewards horrible gameplay.
Also in order for the killer to kill the last survivor they have to put in effort but the survivor can do nothing and they still "deserve" the escape, nice double standard.
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Well I guess if you just play one side of the game you might see it as a double standard. Where I see it as part of playing the game.
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I don't necessarily disagree. But what do you want for that scenario instead? If you try to force two gens to be completed first the last survivor can just hold the game hostage. EGC could just start I guess.
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Surviving long enough to escape the killer IS doing something... It's outwitting you and everyone else long enough to survive the match. It's a bit of a scummy tactic but so is face camping and slugging, which are things that survivors need to learn to accept as part of the game.
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Edit: Sorry, didn't mean to @ you Peanits.
I have mixed feelings about this because the killer could have won in an unfair scenario for the survivors.
- Survivors DC'd or hook suicide
- 75% of the team played poorly
Also, I don't like the idea of outplaying 75% of the survivor team means you outplay 100% of the survivor team. You're not supposed to 4K everytime you get a 3K because it just not right in my opinion.
To give a comparison for killer players, imagine if the survivor team completed 4 generators. Well, they outplayed you for 4 generators so the game should automatically complete the 5th generator.
However, I'm not complaining, I would prefer the game ends rather than have what Peanits call it, "Hide and Seek World Championship" That's why I have mixed feelings because it's necessary, but in some situations, completely unfair for both sides.
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@NMCKE So the killer should get punished when at least 75% of the team played poorly, instead of one of the survivors?
Because on some maps it's impossible to "defend" exit gates without Whispers. So even if the killer finds the hatch first, it doesn't matter.
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The point still stands. Nobody's cares about the devs opinion on a win. I'm not saying I completely disagree with them, but I'll definitely be quick to dismiss their opinions given the recent terrible choices they've made.
I'm also not saying I agree with this post. I think that hatch SHOULD spawn because I like that the game is heavily balanced around lore. The Entity doesn't have control over the hatch.
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So the killer should get punished when at least 75% of the team played poorly, instead of one of the survivors?
Like I said, we don't know how the killer won because there are many unfair variables such as DCs, hook suicides, and poor teammates.
I remember using Kindred, doing a generator as 75% of my team fed a camping LF and soon after, they all DC'd (I have the video but can't post it on the forums for obvious reasons). Therefore, would it be fair for the killer to get a 4K just because he outplayed 75% of my team? I don't think the killer should be rewarded with an automatic 4K because I had no control of my teammates.
Besides, by the developers standards, you won the game by getting a 3K so you're not getting punished at all. The only thing that's punishing you is the ranking system, but most players don't care about rank anyways. The developers should give the killer "Mercy" points in the devout category if the last survivor escapes through the hatch or Exit Gates during the EGC.
Because on some maps it's impossible to "defend" exit gates without Whispers. So even if the killer finds the hatch first, it doesn't matter.
This only applies to indoor maps because I versed a lot of killers in KYF to see what maps are troublesome for certain roles. I agree indoor maps need to have their Exit Gates spawn on the same wall due to the map design.
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@NMCKE When you say the survivor should not get punished because the others might have dc'ed etc., you are also saying that the killer should get punished in any case. Even if the last survivor wasn't at fault: Why should the killer get punished because some survivors decide to dc?
Why should the killer get punished, and not the survivor? Why is the survivor in this case more important than the killer?
And no, I usually don't win a game with a 3k. It's usually a safe pip or a depip, the game rates this performance as a loss.
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Just focusing on the survivor side of the EGC, I already covered the killer side in a previous comment.
I don't think the survivor should get Exit Gates on the same wall because you minus well not have an EGC and just have the Entity sacrifice you after the killer closes the hatch (9/10 times they find it first).
I think the killer should work just a little harder than just standing still, that's really all I been saying. If I worked hard but my teammates didn't pull their weight, I feel like I'm entitled for a chance, not a free, (to) escape.
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What are you talking about? the whole point of the hatch is to give survivors a second chance to escape and even when they not get it, they get a third chance by opening the doors or even a fourth when they have a key! how`s that not favoring survivors??
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Out of curiosity, how often do people escape via hatch with 5 gens left, I wonder?
I think I haven't made it out in that situation even once -- the Killer starts EGC before I can find hatch, or I finally get a gen turned on while the Killer is looking for/waiting by the hatch. Then I die after, but at least I die with a gen on, man!
That outcome is fine by me, zero complaints, it just makes me wonder how often the deus ex machina actually comes through?
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I agree 5 Gen left should not spawn the hatch, Killer deserve with their dominating.
Though I would like to have thing goes easier for the last Survivor the more Gen done. Something like
- Do a totem, guaranty to get a key in the next chest (2 Gen left)
- Guaranty to get a key in the next chest (1 Gen left)
Its not feel ok when 5 Gen or 1 Gen, the last Survivor has the same difficult to escape.
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