PTB and people that don't get the point
Like, yes, I can kinda see why people are freaking out about these changes about Hex: Ruin. But can I please remind you, that you guys are the guys who said, that BHVR needs to test things out, because that is why we have a PTB. It is just a test. Nothing that is safe.
Instead of freaking out "Mimi, if this goes live, I will quit...", just put your opinion in a mannered way here and everything is good. I am pretty sure they expected, that people are not happy with this but they can see why and understand, what was good and bad about the new and old Hex: Ruin.
Sometimes I just wish you guys could chill a little bit more.
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People are freaking out because the devs are pretty much set on changing Ruin. It was the same with the Nurse basekit changes. They took all feedback regarding it and just silenced it out.
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It's because the devs had already called it a success in less than 24 hours, despite it clearly being the opposite. On top of that, there was nothing about ruin on the survey that they asked people to fill out. It wasn't a test for ruin, their minds were already made up. That's why people are frustrated. They listened to none of the feedback. There was a lot of good alternative suggestions that went ignored. No one minds a change to Ruin, it's this specific change, that they they have no intention of modifying.
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If they were gonna tweak it they would have said something by now. They didn't care from the moment they thought of the change in August to when the PTB hit, the change was going through no matter the backlash. And with this patch really driving home the survivor bias the designers have, you can't be surprised about the reaction.
Also the PTB is so short its more of a place to test out the content for bugs, not balance.
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The developers don’t ever use the PTB to ‘test’ things, they use them to say ‘this is how the game is gonna be in about two weeks, enjoy.’
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I think that is not 100% right. They change some stuff after the ptb like for an example spirit or oni.
But you're right, as a survivor main I can see the survivor bias too. And it kinda shooked me, because they didn't lose a word about how killers felt about the old ruin. Like why it was meta etc.
But on the other side, some need to calm down. I really hope that they changed the ptb ruin in a good way. It was okay, but way too bad for what it should do.
Ruin was meta for many slow killers or killers without map pressure. Maps are way too big most of the time.
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The scary part is I don't think the bad decisions will stop anytime soon.
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If people want to quit, let them quit. If they can't enjoy playing a video game, they should play another one.
Ruin wasn't a necessary balance change. It was done because BHVR is obviously now focussing on making the gaming experience nice for new survivor players, because these players are likely to spend the most money. So yes, I expect the bad decisions won't stop.
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They are basically set on changing ruin. I've read somewhere that they are happy with how it works now, so yeah. As for devs "understanding old and new ruin", thanks I needed a good laugh. If by understanding ruin you mean saying that it was annoying to survivors and now it will be a late game perk then definitely, they understand a lot...
Some people are done being chill about every stupid thing that happens here.
"Trust them, they know what they're doing" approach will no longer work cause enough is enough.
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Tbh the ruin changes make sense, it's mostly just that things are going to get even harder for killer and nothing is really being done alongside those changes.
Also they reworked Doctor's map and didn't fix what was wrong with it to begin with....just made it look nicer.
Doctor is an improvement though... once the promised tweaks in addition hit.
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How about let's remember how long does your HEX: Ruin totem last in the first place OR remember how many survivors just power through it easily anyway. I still highly believe it's a mental thing. When 2-3 gens are done, survivors tend to feel the momentum and killers lose heart. When all gens are up, killers tend to feel they have control and survivors want to move on.
You really win or lose based on map RNG and how well survivors utilize the map. Also, how committed survivors are to pumping out gens.
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PTB's: we need to test these changes but your feedback is important
People: We don't like it
Devs: Well, this is our changes btw. I hope y'all like it.
See what is the point? They don't care. At least they changed the bug of the 3 scs in the new Doctor
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Remember Patch 1.9.2.? I'm pretty sure it left a bad (and that's putting it lightly) impression on the Devs' ability to actually balance the game. We're honestly probably heading back to Patch 1.9.2. The signs are all there:
-Freddy and Oni nerfs based on survivors' lack of skill and inability to counter them.
-Spirit and Nurse nerfs, same thing with Freddy and Oni
-Almost lunar event time
Sure people can cope but ffs, these killer nerfs are not necessary, they aren't. There is no logical point to nerfing killers. Yes survivors get nerfed as well but rarely so, their nerfs pale in comparison to killer nerfs. Literally no sane person asked for a ruin nerf, so I don't know why so many people are agreeing with it. Everyone, and I mean everyone accepted ruin for what it was, especially at red and purple ranks (even green). It had plenty of counterplay and I'll explain it.
Perks:
- Stake Out, Prove Thyself, Technician, Small Game, Detective's Hunch, This Is Not Happening, and Spine Chill.
RNG:
- People literally spawned with ruin in their line of sight
Items:
- Toolboxes, all of which have different repair speeds, and then two speed add-ons.
The Mechanics Themselves:
- Depending on the position of the gen, multiple people can work on a single generator. Regular repair time for one person to repair a gen (without any perks or toolboxes) is 80 seconds. With two people, it's 44 seconds. Now imagine those two people with toolboxes, and perks meant to speed up gen progression.
There was so much counterplay to ruin it was ridiculous. So all these people agreeing with ruin changes are only doing so because they blindly believe everything that the Devs do is right. No one agreeing with the ruin change did so on their own ability to think on their own and come up with their own conclusion, it's just "Devs good guys" or "Devs perfect how dare you use logic".
New ruin is decent at best, or more accurately, would be decent if it wasn't a hex. Ruin supposedly affects all gens that are not being worked on. This would, in theory, reward gen pressure, the problem is, in practice, it only works on potatoes. Everyone knows about the infamous baby megs that always fail skill checks and then proceed to sprint burst across the map and hide in a jungle gym. They also do the same when they barely even hear the terror radius. So new ruin would be decent in boosted ranks (such as green ranks). Now what about red ranks? Tell me, does anyone expect rank 1 survivors like me, to stop dedicating myself to a gen when not necessary? Unless you initiate a chase, red rank survivors aren't going to stop doing that gen. Not to mention that new ruin is even more counterable by swf. "Hey the killer is chasing me take care of my gen". The new ruin literally depends on survivors being incompetent. With old ruin it would affect the gen progression at all times, it didn't completely rely on survivors being potatoes or being incompetent. Oh and remember all the counter play I mentioned that was available to old ruin? It still applies to new ruin, and now the counter play is even buffed. Without ruin, great skill checks grant 5% bonus progression. Red rank survivors are like the Special Forces of survivors, great skill checks are nothing but a walk in the park. Say a survivor hits 10 great skill checks in a row, and keep in mind that each great is a 5% bonus. What's 5x10? 50. 10 great skill checks is 50% bonus progression without ruin. Now Stakeout is even stronger, because with 3 tokens, that's a free 15% bonus progression, as new ruin no longer affects skill checks. But let's just play the Devil's advocate and put faith into the Devs' balancing wisdom. But hey! It'll be very useful in the late game, amirite or amirite?
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I completely agree with you about Hex:Ruin, RNG, Toolboxes etc. But I don't agree that Freddy's Add-on, PTB Oni and Spirit were okay. BUT they weren't the only problems. Toolboxes are way too strong. And the chance to get one in s trial is pretty high, so you can not prepare. RNG is way too weird and maps are sometimes too big.
Besided that, I apology for missing the point myself. Didn't expect them to balance nothing.
But just a quick reminder that both sides are at some point annoyingly strong or weak. I hate it when people bash on one side without trying to understand anyone or anything.
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Exactly. Both sides need to see things from each other's perspectives. It's just that most of the time, it's the killers getting the short end of the stick. Survivors get screwed too, i.e. hitboxes the size of Jupiter (thanks dedicated servers), bugs (such as basement bug), etc. But in terms of nerfs/buffs and balance in general, survivors get more of the good treatment and killers get most of the bad treatment. Recently though, the Doc is a good exception, he's actually been slightly buffed yet remains balanced. It's just that the Devs need to stop thinking about money (the new update was specifically aimed at appeasing the new players) and actually balance the game. I don't know what's worse, the possibility that the Devs don't want the game to be balanced, or that they're actually incapable of balancing the game. I remember that one of the Devs said they don't like to see things as survivor or killer sided yet their balancing decisions don't reflect that.
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And even survivors are being screwed from this update. In red ranks queue times are getting higher from lack of high rank killers willing to play. I can practically play a whole Breaking Benjamin album with how high these queue times are. Now I wish I was back in green ranks.
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Thank you for your comments. It feels good to see that someone else has the same view of point.
I feel bad for most of the killer, that needee hex:ruin. I personally don't need ruin, but that doesn't mean that other people didnt need it. I know that many are simply not good enough, but that is because they are not experienced. And that is the problem, that BHVR kinda forgets. They use this argument for survivors and they balance around this. But what is with half experienced killers? Or what is with the bad matchmaking?
But lets be honest. If we would have a fair matchmaking, many players would cry bcs they face sweaty people.
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