Patience with bugs and imbalance seems taken for granted.
Everyone should be aware of the trend of an influx of new players around new chapter releases and mid chapter patches including a rework or significant gameplay change.
Current players remains here or there abouts at 22k which is still really good, a lot of people play this game no matter what.
In terms of player count I'm personally unaware of it means people who own the game loading the game up and just accessing the game rather than playing it.
Personally as a dbd player, I've loaded the game up and lost patience with the matchmaking/lobby times and I just quit for that evening or whatever.
It's easy to defend the game's health when data can be construed by 'people are still loading the game up at the normal rate therefore the health of the game is ordinary'.
I know killers are in decline and looking at the steam charts the data of 'player count' doesn't represent the truth behind the frustration of players.
You could have 22k players looking for a match for 30 minutes and 22k players finding instant Lobbys and the data would remain the same even though players patience is wearing thinner than water.
The reason why I'm making this analysis is because I think around March/April when other games similar to dbd come out everyone will be shocked by a noticeable decrease in players.
This is because that is when players already disgruntled by dbd will be able to try other games similar to dbd and the data would be more of a truthful depiction of the playerbase.
Dbd is by no means going to die anytime soon however I feel it's important to have the means to analyse player behaviour and understand the many reasons why people are looking and hoping for enjoyment from elsewhere.
Dbd to some people is like a prison, a chore to play but it's one of those things where when you finally break free, you get banged up again a few weeks later.
Players are looking for hope on the outside but nothing real materialises (The last year, hide or die, F13, etc.)
People are desperate for something to ignite the spark to fire the passion which brought them to dbd in the first place.
You shouldn't leave it too late to actually see sense and acknowledge the needs and wants of all players.
People who play killer or survivor are the foundation of the game, if one of those doesn't work then the whole game starts to crumble and then eventually tumble over if you don't address the problems which exist on all sides.
These problems are what the game relies on to function yet they are often treated with a bandaid fix or left in to make the game more a better experience but at the cost of (temporary) imbalance.
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no
one
cares
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If no-one cares then why are you playing the game and commenting on the forums.
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im having a good time and enjoying the game while people like you are trying to say "game will die because ruin devs do something". this happened many times before and nothing changes, just be quiet and play the game, if you dont want to play it play something else. honestly you should be thanking me for bumping this thread
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Here is my trend of Dead by Daylight. 😎
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Poor job trolling. OP started he doesn't believe game is dying.
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I agree. People point to the steam stats but those stats simply don't provide enough depth.
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😊
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 "Dbd to some people is like a prison, a chore to play but it's one of those things where when you finally break free, you get banged up again a few weeks later."
"then the whole game starts to crumble and then eventually tumble over if you don't address the problems which exist on all sides."
never said it but heavily implied it
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I agree, and can confirm the data plot points that show up in this chart.
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Actually I would disagree. If someone is even willing to wait 30m for a game then it shows they must like playing it. For those that don't wait right now if they can fix it then the issue goes away.
You also have to factor in the 22k number is peak not the whole usetbase and just one platform. This means there could be over 250k- 500k players from different time zones logging in and playing for a time.
Now when it comes to other games many have came out and failed to make a dent in the player base. Something about DBD has people hooked and maybe its the simple concept of it.
The way players react to any change has always been consistent on the forums. Game forums wouldn't be game forums if they werent full of complaints.
Each change for either side has been met with
I am quitting
The game will die
Why only nerf one side
When x game comes out no one will play this
Etc etc etc
What has generally happened is the players adapt to a change and the devs gather data to make more changes to the side that has been affected by them. Balance is never easy and its always going to be a tug of war.
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I didn't say the game was dying. I actually said that the game has consistent healthy numbers however the 'player count' stat doesn't give off any indication of player satisfaction. Whether someone is 'playing' by looking for a match for an hour or playing 40+ matches a day, it doesn't define it in the stats.
And the mentality of "I'm having fun therefore everyone else is" is unhealthy. It's clear how certain changes have and will affect the games health and when you have similar games who will rival dbd coming out then dbd has to get it together to compete.
Side note some people in these forums think they can discredit a whole argument just because of your personal experience playing dbd. The arguments are made within the whole playerbase in mind and not the few who claim to be different.
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You say someone who waits 30 minutes must like the game to consider waiting for so long. I simply think this is largely to do with the fact dbd is one of it's kind and there's nothing remotely like it that's any good. Rival big name games are coming soon and dbd should try to do something to keep the players they have by listening and delivering on the needs and wants of the whole playerbase.
You cannot take a person's patience for granted and dbd is right now. Matchmaking is in such a bad state as well as so many issues and then ruin, a band aid fix to game play imbalance is practically being ripped out because it's now useless early game as it doesn't stop survivors doing gens unless you pressure gens as killer relentlessly and stop chasing survivors. But this isn't just about ruin, this is about both sides.
People now complain about having to wait so long to find a killer and that in itself is how one of the foundations of the game is being affected. You cannot play dbd if there are no players wanting to play killer.
And when it comes down to making changes, a killer nerf is being made today, when exactly is the rebalance of generator speeds happening...next midchapter probably and that is way too long to address the games biggest problem.
I can say for myself and others that killer isn't fun anymore and it's not because I'm bad at the game it's because of all the problems I have to put up with. Framerate, lag, broken sound, every survivor knowing how to loop well, flashlights, stuns, gen rushers, teabagging, the dm's/chat and the constant need to try hard to get a result against a group of survivors who end up being rank 19 casual solo players.
Killer isn't fun for most players and I as well as many have stopped playing killer, I've stopped mainly because I get matched with rank 1/2 everygame but beyond that there are so many reasons why it's unpleasant to play.
I'm not a killer main but playing as survivor matchmaking is a joke, sometimes it can be over 40 minutes to get into a match so after my 10th attempt to find a match I'll end up playing something else.
I used to really like this game but the problems which exist and the inability for the Devs to see what they are doing to the playerbase who give their time to playing dbd is beyond me. I cannot enjoy this game and as someone who has had a ton of patience with it I'm literally just waiting to try something... anything which can be as good or better than dbd.
I always hear how it's people threaten to quit playing the game whether you play killer survivor or both however there has been no opportunity to find something dbd-esce until something else pops up.
This isn't just about balance. This is to do with the game functioning as intended too which it doesn't and when it doesn't fixes either don't happen or they take forever.
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Nah, you're right. Although the forums are a small percentage of the playerbase, most of the posts are complaints in one way or another. Some people, like the ones on this thread, are just willfully ignorant because THEY are having fun, therefore everyone else is. And even if the devs say take stats with a grain a salt, they'll still tout the stats as if they're some silver bullet that proves everything is fine and dandy.
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"What has generally happened is the players adapt to a change and the devs gather data to make more changes to the side that has been affected by them."
This is basically saying "We're gonna see how hard we can poke you to see how much it hurts" Trouble is that they're poking too hard and now there is soon to be consequences. I'll still play dbd but you cannot ignore the negative reaction that will take place because it's justified and in my opinion very damaging to BHVR.
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I do think there is a good point here, people's patience is being taken for granted with how slow the devs are on fixing core issues. People are only gonna tolerate bad game balance for so long, and especially when real competitors enter the market it might end up hurting DBD.
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The story that the developers removed Ruin to gather data on vanilla generator-time is big bullshit. Because according to their own statistics, 55% of the matches had no Ruin to begin with. Why not gather data from there?
The true story is that the developers removed Ruin, but are not planning on giving killers anything in return. Otherwise they would have done that in the same patch as well, because they already had the data.
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But there are games out there and each one so far was going to kill DBD. The two upcoming games which stand out the Predator game which looks ok and Resident evil on the horizon which doesn't look that great.
Match making will be fixed that's the point. They are working on it now and it was the changes to dedicated servers and the swf match making that were the main culprits for these issues as they all stemmed from those being implemented. The swf change was for the killers as it was to eleviate them being matched with high ranks is but other issues arised.
There are thousands of games out there and as I said if someone waits 30m just to play this one it had to show something.
Of course you chat take a person's patience for granted and why they are trying to fix the issue.
The issues you complain about half are game mechanics which have been in such a day one yet the game has grown from what it was. Always remember the posters here are not reflective of how the majority feel they are simply a tiny minority who visit the forums to complain about something. The vast majority simply play the game and accept it for what it is and enjoy it. To say what you are is speculative at best by taking a few hundred players out of what over 1 million on all platforms.
It seems the basis of your post stems from the ruin change. If this one perk was the basis for you doing well may be the change was needed for you as well as others. They have said they need to gather data to see what can be done. It's an ever changing game and a fix isn't simply adding more gen time or another objective as that could have other implications. They need to see what ruin was doing and how it affects how well players do and how long games last with what they now have.
A bad community who trash talk doesn't kill games as dota2, lol, overwatch etc are all the same. It's part of playing online games that others will just act like idiots unfortunately.
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Everyone points at the ruin change as the main reason there's been a spike in threads complaining.
Truth is that that much needed perk was the final nail in the coffin for some people. It spelt it out loud and clearly how the Devs were survivor sided and it showed really clearly in the announcement they made for the ruin change and for making doctors rework based on making him less annoying to play against.
Any follow up change will take time so survivors are going to have the advantage of easy gen repairs until change has been agreed, gone through ptb and approved in well over a months time.
Killers have to endure significantly worse imbalance for this time while the Devs collect data. It takes a lot of patience and for all the time people have been playing it just feels like it's not only too slow of a process but it's a slap in the face for anyone currently playing the game.
As for matchmaking. Matchmaking is only fixed until it is broken again. Leaks also show how they're potentially trying to remove ranks to disguise the unbalanced and broken matchmaking which just sounds so typical of BHVR because of the history of band aid fixes they've done before. The BL nerf alone was to get around map rebalancing because of the infinites it caused.
Every fix/balance that is ever done just feels like it's covering up or producing a new problem with the game.
It's easy to whine about what needs to be done but something is a lot better than nothing at all. There are so many things which need attention and all the people trying to convince everyone that everything is fine spouts out the need to adapt.
The way to adapt to start having fun as killer is to play survivor. I feel like a silent but large amount of people are in this same boat.
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Unlike the mindless sheeple here i whole hardly agree and moved from killer main to survivor.
Red rank both sides mind you and did not use ruin.
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Of course complaining threads spike. It has happened with every single change to date that impacted a meta perk. The Steam forum used to blow up when these happened way before this forum even existed. No one likes change but sometimes it is needed at times.
I don't know how long you have been following the game but since 2016 every change for either side in the past has had a few threads like this stating pretty much the same and it would be the final nail in the coffin as such. What makes this one any different from all the previous ones in the past?
Every change feels like a significant change in balance to the side it affects. The 20% who never used this one perk are the ones you should really look at as many keep saying they should balance off the top percentage. Say it was 1000 killers that means 200 do well without it at red ranks. Shouldn't they use those 200 as the basis to make changes at those ranks?
You can't use leaks to try and prove a point as they are not confirmed and pure speculation. Many leaks in the past have not made it into the game and just becasue something may have been mentioned doesn't mean it was ever planned. It could be an idea a couple thought of and was brought up but instantly thrown out by the team.
I haven't used ruin since 2017 and never have an issue. I dont even use slowdown perks as i like to use those which aid me in a chase and play around with many. I will still continue to have fun playing killer and survivor like I have done with every change made to date and change up my builds and have fun.
Maybe becoming reliant on things is the issue for most of the players and wht these things need looked at. Just like every change to survivor which was needed.
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I'm just going to give my opinion on the matter.
Personally, I think the Ruin change was a good one, but made for the completely wrong reasons and at the wrong time. Same with the Doctor's rework. I feel that's what makes the changes this patch more of an issue than any of the others in the past.
You use the example: "Say it was 1000 killers that means 200 do well without it at red ranks" which is completely wrong. Just because that 20% didn't use it, doesn't mean they were doing well without it. There's way too many factors. Instead, you should look at why the 800 people use it. Find out why it's so EFFECTIVE, not why it's frustrating, and go from there. Although, that's another thing. Didn't they say specifically it was for new players that they were changing it? You know, the players that are a lot less likely to encounter it?
This is why it's more of an issue in my opinion, not because it's survivor sided. I mean, they still could have done the same with survivors perks as well. DH, DS, BT Adrena etc should be nerfed if we used the same logic as was given in BHVR's patchnotes, those perks are used, from my own experience, 100% of the time in purple-red ranks after all.
But I digress, they made these changes without first addressing the ACTUAL problems in the game. All the audio bugs (such as not having footsteps, gens being impossible to hear on the other side of a wall, music playing when it isn't supposed to, etc), the game bugs, (Nurse not being able to perform a second blink, survivors being able to glitch behind a hooked teammate, blinking on top of places that should not be reachable, hatches that have a hitbox like a beachball, etc) overly large maps, and the weak perks for both sides as well as non-viable killers. So many things they could have done that would have helped everyone. But nope. "Let's focus on nerfing Ruin and Reworking doctor so the newer players who are less likely to encounter both have it easier."
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I think they did look at why the 80% used it as history has shown its not done with the very best players in mind.
Maybe that was the reasoning that those players were doing well if it stayed up but not when it was destroyed. If you saw that happening surely then you have to think if those players should be in the rank they are playing. Maybe it was due to seeing it being used to kill too easily. Many day it was why they played fair but what about those that used it who didn't.
We could speculate about the whole thing but they obviously saw something we can't.
While I don't mind the ruin change I have said what they have done isnt a change I think is good for the game as I personally think it promotes rushing the gens more.
I was simply stating a point as the argument has always been for a lot of killer main players on all forums towards balancing with the top players for survivor. Why would this be different if that is how they wish it to be done?
While DS is used a lot I don't see it on every player. Maybe 2 out of the 4 on average in my matches. DS does have a set purpose though which is why it was changed to how it was. What we have to look at is the strength of the perks as what you mentioned have limited use and can only be an issue when a player allows them to be. DH for one is the easy to bait and most go straight onto a wall.
The audio bug seemed to come along with the engine update and got worse. While I agree they need to be top priority for fixing I don't think they need to stop working on trying to making the game better due to these bugs. They have teams for different aspects of the game.
Not all bugs are a simple number change and some take a lot of time to fix. Its probably the hardest job of any devs on the whole team along with the most tedious and why no game is ever bug free.
I understand some are frustrated by losing a perk or the Doc rework but the same could be said for the time it took go do Freddy or the DS changes, Exhaustion mechanic or the EGC. While these changes were liked by the community its the same scenario with the bugs that were present while doing them. It does seem if a change it liked its ok. It if not they should work more on fixing the bugs and other things first.
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If they had seen something we can't, then I hope that they will explain it one day. But for now, the only reasoning we have on the subject of Ruin and Doctor being changed is that it was for the benefit of newer survivors because they were frustrating to play against. Not that they were weak or strong in any way.
I have to agree though, that is the reason why I say it's a good change, but at the wrong time. As it stands right now, Gens are completed too quickly, but I don't think increasing the time it takes or decreasing repair speed is the answer to that issue. That would be for a different thread, for here, I will say I agree. It promotes genrushing which leads to a less enjoyable game overall, more-so for Killers however.
I must say I agree with the argument. A game should be balanced with the players who play it most in mind such as those in red-ranks. Take for instance. The Nurse, widely considered the best and strongest killer on PC, but a new player would never be able to use her effectively. Now imagine buffing her with a new player in mind, that would cause a considerable amount of problems at high ranks and among the more experienced players who knew how to user her effectively beforehand.
But, just because a player doesn't use a perk, doesn't mean they are doing well without it. I try and avoid using Ruin on my builds. The moment I hit Red-ranks and faced SWF's however, Gens were done in seconds and it was rare I'd get one kill, let alone two or three. Four was impossible. Though that was a while ago and I am far from being a pro player. An extreme example I can think of to counter that argument would be something like saying "90% of players who pipped got at least one kill in a game, 10% pipped without getting a kill. That means we should balance the ranking system around not being able to kill." As I said, extreme example, but still. The point stands. If 80% of the player base used Ruin at high ranks, see why it is so effective and then balance. Not why it might be frustrating.
Differing experiences I suppose. Then again, I'm a console player and every red rank game is a 4-man SWF since they make posts for players and won't play without it. Either way, as far as I can tell DS was buffed wasn't it? Made from being able to be used at any time, but with the counterplay of being dribbled to the hook. To now being 60 seconds of "don't pick me up" after being hooked. Dead Hard, can be used multiple times a match and is essentially a second chance for a survivor in a chase. They mess up their position, but not really they can wait until you're right on them or just go through the trap/pallet and now they're in control again. Be the same as unrelenting if it let the killer swing immediately after a miss. Now, if we look at Ruin, which in all honesty wasn't that good before, it hardly ever lasted a minute and would only slow the game down by 50 seconds total give or take. The only REAL issue, was it being a bit annoying and boring. That's it.
I think that's one in the same isn't it? Killers like The Spirit especially, rely on sound in particular. Fixing audio would improve the game in general. Killer gets blinded at a pallet as they're kicking it. Survivor walks past because the killer can't hear anything. Surivor is in the Terror radius working on a gen beside a wall and suddenly gets jumped because they couldn't hear the killer approaching. Both sides walk past a gen, can't hear any noise, so they ignore it, not realising it's at 90% completion. Hearing the music for being carried on a shoulder the entire time is damn annoying for both sides as well. Those issues being fixed would definitely improve the game for the better and that's JUST the audio side of things.
That is true, and precisely why I think more time should be spent on trying to fix them instead of making changes to things that don't need to be changed. Half expecting legion to get another Nerf even though a large majority of people believe him to be the worst killer in the game.
That may be the case, but I for one belive bugs should come before all else. Even now with the game balance being screwed over thanks to gen speeds and the idiotic emblem system that punishes you for being efficient. I think they should focus on the notable bugs before all else.
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Seems about right
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Imagine thinking the ruin change was good to any degree whatsoever 🤮
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Dbd forever!
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Shoo shoo get outta here shoo. I'm pretty sure you're just messing around but to those who actually have that thought I will have a mini rant.
In terms of dbd forever. Dbd won't last forever everything dies just look at games you were playing say...7 years ago. The vast majority of not all of them you don't play anymore. Dbd can be around for a long time but not in the state it's in now.
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Sorry, I know we can't have any positive comments in here. My bad!!
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I'm pretty sure I've seen you on these forums complaining about something or agreeing with others about how something was annoying to them.
For you to say that positive comments aren't welcome in this thread is not only irrelevant but it undermines the very fact that for all the frustration the playerbase has been through, the patience is running thin.
Any comments are welcome as long as they are relevant to the main point of the thread.
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DBD FOREVER! :D
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What does that even mean? That you'll support dbd for the whole of eternity. You can worship dbd but in order to get the most out of it they need a wake up call to win people back and stop disgruntled players from playing something else.
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It means I like the game. I've enjoyed it since day one back when they had infinite loops and a million pallets. It's probably my favorite video game of all time, next to Mario Kart and Road Rash. People are just overreacting, more so than ever, mostly because they don't understand what is happening. Also, people have never really handled change very well. I still remember the outcry about Freddy from survivors and then the outcry by Killers when they gimped him a week later. I still remember the HUGE outcry about the DS change only to see every survivor still bringing it today. I can't keep even up with how many "Killer Strikes" (lol) there have been. 5? 6?
People just take this game way to seriously like it's politics or something, when they should just be having fun. The devs had to destroy self-care to force survivors to bring something else and they are now doing the same to killers with Ruin. Try different killers, new perks, or just go in and enjoy the game for god's sake. Who cares if they "gen rush" and escape? You still got to play and make points. Just move on to the next match, OR if you really, REALLY aren't enjoying the game... find a new game.
It's not like the game is going to stay in its current state forever, they will bring more changes with each patch. There was a point where killers were getting "special treatment" and now it's survivors. The game is probably a nightmare to balance while keeping new players. They have us. Sure, some of us veterans may stop playing from time to time and/or move on, but if the game is too brutal for new people that haven't got a clue, the game is good as dead.
I know this first hand as I've tried to get many of my friends to play and they just get trampled by more experienced players and never touch it again. They probably saw a lot of this after the Stranger Things update. The devs have more info than you'll ever know. I'm sure they know some of the changes will be brutal, but good in the long run. Again, think about how much blowback they got from changing DS. Today, almost every survivor that complained uses it. They even abuse it!
But yeah, it's still my fav game and I think it's only gotten better. It's not perfect, but what game is?
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People still have a right to complain if they see the game going in the wrong direction. I agree people jump the gun so quickly when hearing about things getting nerfed or buffed.
When you frustrate your playerbase it pushes players futher away. It puts people off and will eventually lead to people going elsewhere if they're not having fun anymore. It will happen when new rival games come out. It's upto BHVR to not come across so one-sided and take up a neutral role which they desperately need.
It's important to acknowledge how much of a success dbd is however a lot of the killer/survivor strikes stem upon wanting the game to remain great.
In terms of the ruin change, I feel like there are a lot of people thinking change is bad and another lot thinking the timing of the change is bad.
Since dedicated servers have been around I feel like the Devs have the means to compile all sorts of data but they don't really know what it means entirely.
In the recent dev stream they referenced that lithe was used more than the meta red rank survivor perks therefore they're not touching them. A lot of people were thinking "compare the meta perks to the survival rates and not just the usage"
Not Queen did state that the Devs are always learning day to day at what is best for the game. The Devs aren't psychics or have a magic wand however they should always monitor player satisfaction.
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Agreed. However, being a content creator myself I get a rainbow of criticism. The problem is that it's always conflicting. For example, "All your voices sound really good!" and "You need to hire new voice actors". What am I supposed to do with that? So, I can only imagine what the DBD team has to put up with.
I'd wager that over 90% of the criticism they receive is knee jerk angry comments with absolutely no thought. What I'm trying to say is everyone gives them constant conflicting complaints and they have to ultimately decide what's best for their game in the end.
Don't forget the past. Almost everyone (except killers lol) were against the DS changes and were very angry, but with time they learned it wasn't so bad and that the developers made the right decision. I think the same will happen with Ruin. If not, the devs will definitely take another look. Who knows, this change may be in preparation for the next killer, their perks, and/or overall game changes. I do know for a fact they have big plans for this year.
I will always give them a benefit of a doubt because I know squat about game programming and the same would go for the majority of people here. If you were somehow hired to go in and balance the game you would probably end up realizing it's not so easy and then hated by the community for some of your decisions.
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