NOED need to be a no totem perk

I think the issue in the video you linked is how extremely asinine the totem spawns can be. His NOED just popped and it was immediately destroyed. They need to buff totem perks so they can't be so quickly destroyed. As much as I like my totem perks like Ruin, there's a reason they are totem perks. I don't agree with a killer being able to keep them all game but I also don't agree survivors should be able to completely rid a killer of an entire perk in <30 seconds.

@fluffybunny said:
NOED is like the DS of killers. You can play poorly and still get a win thanks to a perk. Imagine if they buffed DS to make the perk a multi-use perk. Whether you like it or not, they actually have to be cleansing totems in order to counter NOED before it goes off. If they do that, they're wasting time. Most of the times people don't and I've also had survivors get after me for cleansing totems with a killer with NOED because I was "wasting time" and not focusing on getting out. Gen rushing is an issue, but buffing NOED isn't the answer.

NOED is only an issue if survivors gen rush. It´s in no way comparable to DS.

I think people are missing the OP's original point. As well as suggesting that it is not a hex perk I believe he is saying it should only work one time.
So not NOED but MWED (most will escape death)

@Rex_Huin said:
I think people are missing the OP's original point. As well as suggesting that it is not a hex perk I believe he is saying it should only work one time.
So not NOED but MWED (most will escape death)

Yeah, I admittedly didn't read the last part until later.
MWED indeed, lol. I'm not sure how killers who use NOED a lot would react to that. While making it a non-hex perk would be a buff, only being able to down someone once would be quite the nerf.

@fluffybunny said:

@Rex_Huin said:
I think people are missing the OP's original point. As well as suggesting that it is not a hex perk I believe he is saying it should only work one time.
So not NOED but MWED (most will escape death)

Yeah, I admittedly didn't read the last part until later.
MWED indeed, lol. I'm not sure how killers who use NOED a lot would react to that. While making it a non-hex perk would be a buff, only being able to down someone once would be quite the nerf.

A buff on one hand and a nerf on the other - Dead by Daylight in a nutshell...

@Rex_Huin said:

@fluffybunny said:

@Rex_Huin said:
I think people are missing the OP's original point. As well as suggesting that it is not a hex perk I believe he is saying it should only work one time.
So not NOED but MWED (most will escape death)

Yeah, I admittedly didn't read the last part until later.
MWED indeed, lol. I'm not sure how killers who use NOED a lot would react to that. While making it a non-hex perk would be a buff, only being able to down someone once would be quite the nerf.

A buff on one hand and a nerf on the other - Dead by Daylight in a nutshell...

I still don't know 'cause then totems would be completely neglected unless someone was trying to farm points. That would give one less thing for survivors to do. I think they should just add in another objective in between the gens. I've heard people suggest finding parts or finding oil.

No. Just no.

@Tsulan said:

@fluffybunny said:
NOED is like the DS of killers. You can play poorly and still get a win thanks to a perk. Imagine if they buffed DS to make the perk a multi-use perk. Whether you like it or not, they actually have to be cleansing totems in order to counter NOED before it goes off. If they do that, they're wasting time. Most of the times people don't and I've also had survivors get after me for cleansing totems with a killer with NOED because I was "wasting time" and not focusing on getting out. Gen rushing is an issue, but buffing NOED isn't the answer.

NOED is only an issue if survivors gen rush. It´s in no way comparable to DS.

Have you tired knocking the survivor out and then running around in circles sometimes surivors miss i do that tbh xd or just drop them in the chack OR just let them die or use them as a bait ez counter :P

@SovererignKing said:
Tsulan said:

@fluffybunny said:

 @Tsulan said:

   @fluffybunny said:

     @Tsulan said:

       @fluffybunny said:

      NOED is like the DS of killers. You can play poorly and still get a win thanks to a perk. Imagine if they buffed DS to make the perk a multi-use perk. Whether you like it or not, they actually have to be cleansing totems in order to counter NOED before it goes off. If they do that, they're wasting time. Most of the times people don't and I've also had survivors get after me for cleansing totems with a killer with NOED because I was "wasting time" and not focusing on getting out. Gen rushing is an issue, but buffing NOED isn't the answer.

     



      NOED is only an issue if survivors gen rush. It´s in no way comparable to DS.

   



    DS: Survivors get a free escape unless they are juggled or close enough to a hook

  NOED: Killer gets free hooks where they wouldn't have gotten them otherwise unless survivors cleanse the totem after it spawns or cleanse all totems

    How are they in no way comparable?

 



  DS: Survivor gets a free escape unless they are close to the hook. Dribbling only works for a short distance.

DS rewards failiure.

NOED gives the killer free hooks? So they magically teleport to the hook and die? He doesn´t has to hunt and down them? This truly sounds OP!

NOED only punishes gen rushers. That´s about it. It can be completely prevented, unlike DS.

NOED gives free downs. Is that better? That's like survivors getting free get away. Only DS works once and NOED works every time until the totem is destroyed. It can be before it goes off. It could be never if the team couldn't be bothered. I've had whole teams wiped out because of NOED. They would either get no kills or one, but the NOED came in to save the day. I've had someone with NOED complain about someone with DS getting a free escape. Well, there's your free downs, buddy. You're as bad as them.

1 DS is no problem. 4 DS are a problem. Especially with how fast the gens are done and how long a chase takes.

NOED punishes those very gen rushers and can be cleansed before it even spawns. Killer wastes up to 3 perks for a endgame strategy. For perks that only come into effect once the gates are powered. Survivors behave like the killer lost once the gates are powered and that he should go into a corner of the map and cry.

But the match is not over until you see the point screen.

What i find even more ridiculous, is WHY survivors complain about NOED. Killer let you get points and pip. Yet survivors still complain that they died at the end of the match.

But if a killer kills everyone with 5 gens up, they also complain that they depiped, and received next to no points. That the killer is #########, because he camped or whatever reason they make up.

There really is NO way to make survivors happy. Maybe if the game would start with open gates. But then they would spend 20 minutes at the exit teabagging.

You can’t have it both ways Tulsan. You can’t have a really good shot in the match, AND have this ######### trump card in your back pocket for when things go sideways. I’d much rather have a really good shot (Killers getting buffs and Survivors getting some nerfs) to make the game actually balanced, and get rid of both sides “Trump Cards”. I’ve never been a fan of “winning after you’ve lost”. Comeback mechanics are just cheesy. I feel you on the “They cry even though the Killer let you play the rest of the match and you still won.” Though it’s a trade off. What would you rather have, the cheese win, or the hard earned win. Pick one. 

I’ll post these two videos again, you’ve seen them both, but other might not have.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hwMKJtVdFeY
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EknTQnpjHrA

NOED is a wild card, but it’s too much of a “Trump Card”. I’m more than willing to give up these things for better balanced actual matches.

First video the killer turned a potential 3 kill into a 4 kill. (gates were still closed) thx to NOED.
Everyone died and they still got more points than the survivors of the second video where everyone escaped (yeah gen rush!).
Also 2 survivors had Adrenaline. It´s simply a late game strategy. I think the game needs more perks for different parts of the game. Or at least to specialize for different situations.

It´s not winning after you´ve lost. Game is not over until you see the points screen.
Imagine the killer is Freddy who has Remember Me, NOED and Blood Warden. He focuses on the Obsession, which has DS and wastes 4 gens to kill that survivor. It´s a risky strategy, but a strategy.

You made a wrong call at the gate. The moment you heard her, you should have left. Even without NOED, that huntress would have downed you.
Always assume NOED and Blood Warden. Or DS when you play killer.

Also NOED isn´t really meta. Unlike DS.

@Tsulan said:

@Jonathanskilz said:

@Tsulan said:

@fluffybunny said:
NOED is like the DS of killers. You can play poorly and still get a win thanks to a perk. Imagine if they buffed DS to make the perk a multi-use perk. Whether you like it or not, they actually have to be cleansing totems in order to counter NOED before it goes off. If they do that, they're wasting time. Most of the times people don't and I've also had survivors get after me for cleansing totems with a killer with NOED because I was "wasting time" and not focusing on getting out. Gen rushing is an issue, but buffing NOED isn't the answer.

NOED is only an issue if survivors gen rush. It´s in no way comparable to DS.

Have you tired knocking the survivor out and then running around in circles sometimes surivors miss i do that tbh xd or just drop them in the chack OR just let them die or use them as a bait ez counter :P

2 nights ago i played Hag (i never play Hag) and used the BBQ offering (still have over 20 laying around). Just went for the points and didn´t really try anything else than getting to those damn hooks.
So gate gets powered the moment i down someone next to the last bbq hook. I pick her up, and hear the clang of that hook that got sabotaged with a teabagging Meg next to it. Dropped the survivor and just waited. The downed survivor made a false call and healed up instead of crawling to the gate (wasn´t far). So they try to distract me to heal. Doesn´t work and i down her again. She then disconnects and i down the sabotaging Meg next to the gate. (Injured everyone who came close). Meg dies.
The chat was full of salt from Meg, but also towards Meg. The other survivors defended my position, since i didn´t camp the event gens and only wanted my hooks.
Was an interesting turn.

Fun to read, hope you got your hooks done btw :P

@Jonathanskilz said:

@Tsulan said:

@Jonathanskilz said:

@Tsulan said:

@fluffybunny said:
NOED is like the DS of killers. You can play poorly and still get a win thanks to a perk. Imagine if they buffed DS to make the perk a multi-use perk. Whether you like it or not, they actually have to be cleansing totems in order to counter NOED before it goes off. If they do that, they're wasting time. Most of the times people don't and I've also had survivors get after me for cleansing totems with a killer with NOED because I was "wasting time" and not focusing on getting out. Gen rushing is an issue, but buffing NOED isn't the answer.

NOED is only an issue if survivors gen rush. It´s in no way comparable to DS.

Have you tired knocking the survivor out and then running around in circles sometimes surivors miss i do that tbh xd or just drop them in the chack OR just let them die or use them as a bait ez counter :P

2 nights ago i played Hag (i never play Hag) and used the BBQ offering (still have over 20 laying around). Just went for the points and didn´t really try anything else than getting to those damn hooks.
So gate gets powered the moment i down someone next to the last bbq hook. I pick her up, and hear the clang of that hook that got sabotaged with a teabagging Meg next to it. Dropped the survivor and just waited. The downed survivor made a false call and healed up instead of crawling to the gate (wasn´t far). So they try to distract me to heal. Doesn´t work and i down her again. She then disconnects and i down the sabotaging Meg next to the gate. (Injured everyone who came close). Meg dies.
The chat was full of salt from Meg, but also towards Meg. The other survivors defended my position, since i didn´t camp the event gens and only wanted my hooks.
Was an interesting turn.

Fun to read, hope you got your hooks done btw :P

5 BBQ offerings got all hooks but one.

There seems to be the same arguments constantly that NOED is a cruch perk, yes in some instances it can be considered one but its activation is in the survivors hands.

Totems are designed as a mechanic to slow the game down, in essence they are another objective which people keep asking for, just because it is not an objective that gains you anything more then BP does not mean its not worthy of doing, the whole point of NOED being a totems is simply to take survivors off gens, if you refuse to cleanse a totem you risk it activating, its not rocket science.

Dont blame the game, the perk or the killer if it activates, consider what your team mates have been doing, I've cleansed four totems and seen it activate, I dont complain about it I just think well there is only one left to find, it still creates another mini game for me, its a perk thats use is in our hands, it cant work if we do a secondary objective plain and simple, it is only ever strong when we allow it to be, dont be that person, cleanse any totem you see and the killer is running the whole game with just 3 perks.

@Tsulan said:

@fluffybunny said:

@Tsulan said:

@fluffybunny said:

@Tsulan said:

@fluffybunny said:

@Tsulan said:

@fluffybunny said:
NOED is like the DS of killers. You can play poorly and still get a win thanks to a perk. Imagine if they buffed DS to make the perk a multi-use perk. Whether you like it or not, they actually have to be cleansing totems in order to counter NOED before it goes off. If they do that, they're wasting time. Most of the times people don't and I've also had survivors get after me for cleansing totems with a killer with NOED because I was "wasting time" and not focusing on getting out. Gen rushing is an issue, but buffing NOED isn't the answer.

NOED is only an issue if survivors gen rush. It´s in no way comparable to DS.

DS: Survivors get a free escape unless they are juggled or close enough to a hook
NOED: Killer gets free hooks where they wouldn't have gotten them otherwise unless survivors cleanse the totem after it spawns or cleanse all totems

How are they in no way comparable?

DS: Survivor gets a free escape unless they are close to the hook. Dribbling only works for a short distance.
DS rewards failiure.
NOED gives the killer free hooks? So they magically teleport to the hook and die? He doesn´t has to hunt and down them? This truly sounds OP!
NOED only punishes gen rushers. That´s about it. It can be completely prevented, unlike DS.

NOED gives free downs. Is that better? That's like survivors getting free get away. Only DS works once and NOED works every time until the totem is destroyed. It can be before it goes off. It could be never if the team couldn't be bothered. I've had whole teams wiped out because of NOED. They would either get no kills or one, but the NOED came in to save the day. I've had someone with NOED complain about someone with DS getting a free escape. Well, there's your free downs, buddy. You're as bad as them.

1 DS is no problem. 4 DS are a problem. Especially with how fast the gens are done and how long a chase takes.
NOED punishes those very gen rushers and can be cleansed before it even spawns. Killer wastes up to 3 perks for a endgame strategy. For perks that only come into effect once the gates are powered. Survivors behave like the killer lost once the gates are powered and that he should go into a corner of the map and cry.
But the match is not over until you see the point screen.

What i find even more ridiculous, is WHY survivors complain about NOED. Killer let you get points and pip. Yet survivors still complain that they died at the end of the match.
But if a killer kills everyone with 5 gens up, they also complain that they depiped, and received next to no points. That the killer is #########, because he camped or whatever reason they make up.

There really is NO way to make survivors happy. Maybe if the game would start with open gates. But then they would spend 20 minutes at the exit teabagging.

I can understand your aggression and your defensiveness towards survivors, but what I'm saying isn't wrong. DS sucks and so does toxic behaviors; I avoid those. End-game builds are also a lot of fun. I mostly blame myself if I don't foresee it coming and react accordingly. I'm not talking about an end-game build. Whether you want to see it as such or not, NOED is relied on by a lot of killers who aren't that skilled. They wouldn't have gotten that 3k without it and it isn't because they're "letting" you get points. It's a game changer in the same way DS is for survivors. Perks shouldn't determine how many you kill or if you get away. It should be a mixture of both. With that being said, I understand some killers almost require the perk to be viable with how weak they are, but it makes me cringe to see it on top tier killers.

If they kill everyone before 5 gens, it's cause the team sucked. I wouldn't blame the killer even if they did camp. Gens could be done and that person could hang for a while. You get that when you play with randoms, though. It's like randoms disconnecting for no reason or killing themselves on hooks. Fun, fun. Camping and tunneling truly sucks, though. It makes it so one person doesn't get points/pips and that person may not have done anything to deserve such treatment.

I´m not really agressive towards survivors. I speak from experience. More often than not i had someone teabag me at the exit, while i went to the toilet, grabbed something to eat, had a chat with my wife, made a phone call, etc. While that survivor stood at the exit gate teabagging.

I agree that perks shouldn´t determine how many kills the killer gets. (this goes both ways btw.)
But as long as we have game mechanics that give an unwanted (looping), unfair (voice chat), or unjustified (hatch) advantage, it´s the only thing some people have left to balance the outcome of the match.

Ohh and despite me defending NOED, i rarely use it unless i test some new builds.

Yeah, I know. I get that, too, when I play killer. Though usually it's to teabag, but not let you get a hit or anything before they run out. If I'm at the gate (as survivor), it's to let them down me so I crawl out (I think they keep points from that?), but that's only if I like them and they're nearby. I don't teabag, either. When I said "if you get away," I was referring to DS. It annoys me when people use it and a lot of times, it kinda makes them suck tbh. I've had someone act like an utter newbie and attempt to say they were the only good player because everyone else died to NOED. I was the only one cleansing totem and the newbie didn't bother to get the one near to the gen he was doing. The killer also had STBFL, but yeah. It was definitely "skill" that kept him alive.

Yeah, they need to change how people get bloodpoints, honestly. If looping is rewarded, it shouldn't be. The goal should be to attempt to lose the killer, not to waste time. Maybe more stealth rewards/options would be nice to discourage looping. SWF (Voice Chat) isn't going to go anywhere, probably. They need to balance both solo and killers around that since it's quite popular. The last point is bad for both tbh. You're BOTH waiting for the other to move. End game honestly needs to be a lot better.

@shadowsfall42 said:
NOED like DS is a crutch and should just be removed from the game. It allows a bad player to succeed where they should have failed. 

At the start of a round, if the killer immediately finds a survivor and chases him, goes through a few pallets, kills him and then hooks him, it's not uncommon to see 3 generators completed without Ruin. If a survivor notices there's a hex perk up, people will stop doing gens and crawl around looking for it. Why not use that same logic with NOED? Because survivors would rather gen rush, open a gate and GTFO rather than be proactive about it and complain later when they feel the consequences.

When a killer's NOED activates, survivors will get mad at the killer. If every survivor would quit rushing for 10 seconds and go cleanse a totem, NOED wouldn't even be an issue. There's certain killers that I do use NOED on and when survivors say, "lol NOED" then I say, "lol gen rush" back. It's not a crutch perk and people that say this must be a survivor main to feel that way. There's a yin and yang to everything.

@Master said:

@Action_Jaxon said:
I don't think it should be made into a regular perk just because the amount of rage survivors already have when it comes to NOED. I run it on Myers most of the time and am constantly being sent hate messages over it. I can't imagine how much worse it would be if it wasn't something that could be dealt with by simply destroying a totem.

So if survivors cry enough, its not an option?
If you would give your baby everything it cries for.....

As others have pointed out it was already nerfed from being a regular perk to a totem why would they go back to something that they already changed because they didn't think it was working right?