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So devs talk a lot about skill and in-game tactics to win...
But then, survivors can run from loop to loop and constantly drop pallets and theres nothing that a killer can do to stop it.
Gens go so fast that survivors simply run away in a straight line, drop pallets, and go from loop to loop without caring at all about looping, mindgaming, etc.
This to me seems a big problem and when you play as killer it feels so bad that a single survivor can do this for an entire game.
Yes, I pressure gens, and Yes i do give up on chases to go and pressure people. But this makes winning as 70% of the killers pretty much impossible. I also choose which pallets to break (the safe/god ones). Even with all this in mind, there is no way that a killer cna protect 5 gens from 4 survivors. They will escape, or they mess up by being too greedy or too altruistic. They don't even need to be greedy in chases because all they need to do is run and drop pallets.
Playing as a survivor this is what i've been doing lately and oh man if it doesn't simple my games A LOT. Just press Shift and your good to go.
Any survivor can do what he wants for as long as there is no early game tool that killers can use besides playing hillbilly, nurse (pls give her QoL changes), spirit and maybe some stealthy killers like ghostface. Even those really struggle to win because of the issue that i mentioned.
I can't be the only one seeing this.
Comments
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Just git gud -Developers
On a serious note, a good portion of the community feels you, the devs have just surrounded themselves with Yes Men
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They said they were going to see if gens go too fast now that ruin got changed.
But they forgot about what happens until then and it doesn't seem the smartest idea to change ruin at a time like this.
Ruin needed a change-fact. But not now. This will happen and make more people switch roles.
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I think you're exaggerating the system and overlooking its nuance.
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Then explain to me how i can do it as a survivor and it simply works really well.
Go play some games on wreckers yard, blood lodge, mothers dwelling, basically, giant maps doing that and you will see what i'm talking about.
I think that you are not seeing the problem.
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The forums is full of the exact opposite of "yes men", and the devs get most of their feedback from here.
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If you check their QnA it's also incredibly obvious that they're plugging their ears and aren't actually weighing their actions
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I'm not a Killer main, but if I was I'd be happy that they're looking into gen times. If sacrificing ONE perk is the cost of that then so be it. It'll benefit Killers in the long run.
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Massive X to doubt. Go check the developer discords lmao. Tells quite a different story
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You got a link?
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Honestly, i think that they said some good things there.
But their biggest problem is that they take too much to do stuff. Legion is still,imo, the worst killer in the game and i have around 800 hours on them. I can easily have a better match as doctor with only 2 perks and 0 add-ons than Legion with a full set of stuff (excluding moris). THEY GOT "REWORKED" IN MAY OF 2019.
I really don't understand how can't anyone at bhvr see that Feral Frenzy has too many drawbacks for its little use.
They do some nice changes sometimes (ex: freddy's rework and some of the spirit's changes) but they also are not ambitious and can correct their mistakes.
The biggest example is the nurse rework. They were ambitious and changed her base power that no one asked to. Most of nurse's mains and good players (the people that understand the game) said that it was too bad of a change. And they refuse to listen because they don't see it as a mistake. Only few months from now on they will notice that it was a bad change.
They are too scared to risk some changes BUT need to revert them as soon as possible if they are receiving a bad feedback after being tested. I don't understand why... so many good things can be done if tested with the community but they dont seem to see that too.
What if they do some changes to gen times in the near future? If they have a really bad feedback, then they get reverted. If not, then GREAT.
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I'm not saying that it is bad in the long term. In fact, I defended that it needed a change, but not now.
I think that they should make PTB as League Of Legends had the PBE a few years ago. It should be restricted to trusteable people. Not fogwhisperers, but a "category" under that one. So they know that the data that they get from there will be a good and fair one.
After that:
They should test gen times internally without ruin with the team that they have for testing and come up with something good.
Then it gets released to the PTB and see if the changes are good or not. If they are, then it is cool to launch them to live. If not, then don't rework ruin before actually getting the stats.
This is how i would do it.
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If theyre constantly dropping pallets, your making progress. You dont have to chase 1 person the entire game as they deplete the map's pallets themselves, but if you can chase someone and manage to get either a hit or a pallet within 10-15 seconds... thats all you need. Turn and pressure a gen after that. Eventually survivors will find all the pallets around those gens have already been broken and they'll be taking hits in dead zones. New ruin is actually helpful for this playstyle since your constantly chasing survivors off of gens before they can make any REAL progress, and the gen regresses back to nothing by the time they get back. Did this with Legion and Myers last night to really great success.
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Slug, tunnel and camp when the opportunity arises is what i get out to that. I do agree majority of maps are pretty trash with how tiles can connect to other strong structures, god loops being in the game for years and too many safe unmindgameable pallet loops. Just don't play nice is all i can say, if you are clown or one of the killers that lack map pressure or way to one shot you may be SoL unless you find some weak links to exploit.
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The problem is that by the time most of the pallets are broken, the game ended.
It's correct that i'm making progress, but it's correct that the game will end very soon.
It's very rare in my games that someone leaves the gen and then i chase that person and someone comes to that gen when i get away to try and hit a person. I was also using ruin on the games that i started thinking about this. It's a hex perk and is easily taken out of the game.
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Yeah, I did that in some games but i started to feel bad about it and i wasn't having fun. I want to have fun, but there is no time for it in match that lasts 5 minutes.
So i switched to survivor and started doing what i described and yeah, i can do what i want, basically. I'm a very bad looper so thanks that this is possible.
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Like I said though, dont chase 1 person who is tossing the pallets. They will chain them together and end up getting use out of pallets all across the map. Get 1, then rotate to someone else. This will create dead zones. You dont need the entire map to be a dead zone.
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Didn't you read what i've written? I give up on chases to pressure gens and only break the very safe pallets. But there are so many pallets, so many giant maps, and so little time when 2 gens get done between the 1st and 2nd chases that it becomes almost impossible to kill 2-4 people.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that there are many chained tiles.
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I aggree with Nullspec in parts.
It is unbelievable that they have since may not found the time to make the Legion fun again, without those stupid stuns.
And I don't want to start here with the fact that nobody had ask for such a update as it had hit the Legion on may.
Sure, the people wanted to have the exploits fixed and many liked to see the op addons go, including me, but that was it.
And well... My parents have teach me... "If you break something, it is your task to make it fine again, soon as possible." That is all I can say to that.
What the pallets matters...
Really the best you can get is a survivor who drops the pallets infront of you. I would even chase after him, without killing him, just so that he drops every pallet in a specific area of a map, besides hawkings.
There are so many pallets that this tactic doesn't work, because then you wasting the whole match just breaking pallets. Luckily the most of them are unsafe.
Also the gens going down to fast imo.
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How long are these chases?
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Those are my points.
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Bubba basement that’s all I gotta say
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so yeah, here's the thing: if you want to be competitive that's how you gotta play: merciless. If you don't find it fun, then you should play with a more casual approach, or in other words do what you like.
Maybe you like to chase, maybe you like to jump scare, to snipe with huntress, to deep wound 4+ survivors per feral frenzy... whatever it is, do that. But if what you find fun is to 3-4K then we are back to the start: you have to play with a merciless mindset.
You can't have both, or at least, you can't have both in DbD. You can in Civ 5 though.
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It depends. If i see that the survivor has a good map knowledge I make them drop a pallet or 2 and i go to the gens again. If not, I make the survivor drop safe pallets for around a minute.
I can't give exact chase times, it's not even realistic count that, but under a minute I can assure you that it is.
Either way, the correct answers are not being answered. The good question would be: "How many gens can be done within the first 2 minutes of the game?". Well, sometimes, there is the possibility to do 3. But technically, there can be 4 gens done (but that is 100% unrealistic).
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I really need to level him up to get that sweet insidious that is the worstly designed perk of this game imo. It promotes the most toxicity overall.
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It’s a legit strat haha there touching on leatherface and billy next mid chapter so I hope that they don’t nerf him
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Thats just it, like I said...10-15 seconds. Get a hit or a pallet and move on. If you get a hit after 2 seconds, unless you think you can get another one right after...move on.
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I also said that i can't have fun if the games can be ended in 5-6 minutes and all im doing is running after someone that simply drops pallets and vaults to another tile.
I play legion and doctor at red ranks and i can't leave the ranks because i pip up and get few bloodpoints at the same time.
A win for me is to have fun with a good amount of bloodpoints (basically BBQ 4 stacks and some more bloodpoints in the middle). I can't do that because when the map becomes a giant dead zone and i can actually go and down people, the gens are already done.
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SO the killers job is to hit people and let go. They heal, then repeat. This sounds like A.I. to me ngl.
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You end up exhausting the important pallets nearest to the gens instead of allowing them to waste your time by chaining pallets together. You'd end up chasing 1 guy off a gen, just for them to use a pallet 10 meters away, then another 20 meters from the gen, then 30... As opposed to going after the guy on the gen who isnt gonna reach the nearest pallet because its too far away from the last safe spot. While theyre healing up, go after their teammates. Alot of times you'll end up in situations with 4 injured survivors who are either gonna go down if they hop on a gen because its a dead zone or theyre gonna use time healing up, allowing you to venture away from the gens.
If doesnt matter if you chase 1 guy who drops every pallet on the map by camping them until you show up, it takes too long and the gens will finish. You HAVE to rotate.
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why can't you have fun if a game lasts 5-6 minutes? I can understand why it wouldn't be fun for a survivor, but a killer plays differently.
Why do you consider fun to get 4 stacks of BBQ? Just because of the bloodpoints?
Can you please tell us what is fun for you? It's a serious question, everyone has a different definition.
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All i want is to have fun, not put 30 thoughts into a single decision. Do survivors have to do that? Hell no!
I want to have my 4 BBQ stacks and more bloodpoints. But this needs time to do it. I want to play to chill but also improve my account AKA win bloodpoints.
But in 6 minutes that i can't hook anyone, how can i get the stacks? It should be easier for a killer to down someone. I'm not even asking to win the game everytime. Occasionally would be a good goal.
What you described is pure sweat and i don't want that. I just want to have a game to have fun.
But something is wrong when if both sides play for fun and 1 side always wins. When both sweat, the depip squad has the advantage and mostly wins. I play at red ranks and cant rank down because rank reset is really bad now and i easily pip with legion and doctor.
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So you're telling us that a perk that usually got cleansed in the first minute of the match is the reason you no longer win any killer games? I'm sorry it's just hard to believe buddy, I do suggest you use corrupt intervention though that perk is so much better than both old ruin and new ruin
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My definition of fun is just have interactions with the survivors and get a lot of bloodpoints each match. Also, being able to win sometimes (2 FAIR kills+) without sweating is also good.
Now compare it to what my experience (and of many people in the forums) is.
Games that last 5-6 minutes (very short time to being able to interact and being able to chill and just play relaxed).
Even if I sweat, survivors are able to escape using the way that i said and i can't get many bloodpoints and interact with them. Most of what i do is break pallets and see people run from tile to tile.
There's no room to play more casually as killer and get some bloodpoints. No one can have fun with strictly losing.
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No offense to the devs. But they play like rank 20s.
You can watch it on stream after stream they have played, and it is always equal to rank 20 playstyles. They balance the gane around the new players because they inherantly ARE new players.
For them make comments and remarks about skill level and tactics is... Well its trashy.
I have no remorse for my statements as I probably speak for a majority of longer-standing players when I say this.
To be given advice and tactics through a developers eyes is never accurate. They know how it was made and base all of their statements through the assumption it will work. It was designed to work that way, and when tested by other devs or even people who are aware of the changes, the results will continually show it works; not entirely because it was made correctly, but made to work from the players because they subconsciously know it should.
The developers should be the last people to give advice on tactics involved in the game and just give little tips. Hey, remember that reverse skill checks are a thing now against doc. Hey, remember that Lery's now has pallets that are less safe than before where the safe ones were.
Leave the skill and tactic talk to people who have 5000+ hours in the game. To the people who have the game so engraved into their mind that they could do better than rank 20s while blindfolded.
Please Devs, just because you designed it to work that way, doesn't mean it will work that way or that people would even want to play that way.
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So you didn't read what i said.
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I see. Well, there are a few problems when we compare what you want with what you get: you want to kill more than two survivors, get a lot of bloodpoints and don't sweat, which I would translate to play chill.
The problem here is that you are also high rank because of the killers you play, but apparently your skill currently doesnn't match your rank, meaning that survivors are stronger than you at looping and making you waste time. What I would suggest is to switch up killer, take your time in learning it without caring too much on the outcome of the match. In fact, you should probably be happier if you de-rank while you learn those new killers (maybe use Trapper, it can be very interesting and at the same time it's very easy to mess up).
You will eventually end up in a rank that's better suited for you, and hopefully match making will not screw with you too much (until it is patched out, that is). From there you should be able to have games that are more on your skill level, get more interactions with survivors and bloodpoints.
I'm saying this because at high ranks the game is supposed to be hard, which you see as sweaty though, so it's obviously not where you want to be, and it wouldn't be fair for the players which want to have competitive matches to ask for the game to become easier.
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just about this from you: there is no way that a killer cna protect 5 gens from 4 survivors.
Didnt you see the dev stream? they dont want us to protect 5 gens at once... they said, and let me quote it for you: "Give up 2 Gens and focus more on the resting 3 Gens"...
The Objective from Developers sight never were to play the game as it was supposed to be..
They force you to play "their" Game, with "their" rules...
So, let the Survivors have max fun, meanwhile the killers do end up frustrated and quit the game...
When theres no Killer-Player left anymore, they will notice they messed up, even if it will be to late to make changes then...
I accepted for myself the fact they dont care about Killers, even if "were" at least the same "important" then the survivors... without killers no game.. that simple, so let us focus on another thing devs have said longtime ago: "If you dont like the Game, play another one".
I guess this we shall do for real.
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I did, and it's ridiculously funny tbh
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All the veterans know that map design is garbage.
But what can you do? The devs have their head in the sand.
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What I describes is situational awareness of whats going on around you as opposed to just the 1 survivor infront of you. I dont necessarily have to sweat through a match to be aware of peoples locations and when I should prioritize a different target. I'm not trying to lord over you or anything, but trying to actually help. The game can get overly stressful at times. Try watching this real quick to recognize an example of what I'm talking about. Fungoose does these educational videos and narrarates his thought process, which is actually a good example to follow. Theres plenty of little tricks you can pick up for each killer mid chase, but I'm not gonna go into all that, lol. This is a good example of time management.
Was looking through his posted games for a good example of how he's constantly looking around for scratch marks to keep tabs on multiple survivors as he's doing EVERYTHING.
Id highly suggest you watch some of his stuff for yourself though and not just this video, as its actually pretty good.
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Behaviour always was like that. Ever since the game release they just push with their own idea of the game and never listen.
The PTB isn't like in many other games where devs use it to gather feedback and data on how players handle new changes. Instead it is used as a replacement to QA team which they apparently have but they always fail to find same bugs that appear after every patch.
What annoys me the most is their hypocrisy. Not queen mentioned in the last QnA that they would like to refrain from knee jerk changes and gather data first as she bring up freddy's rework after the release. What she already managed to forgot somehow is how devs nerfed killers soon after release to "fix bugs". Spirit got a big nerf after ptb and after a while she got buffed again. Oni was demolished in a week after release as his power was never intended.
Is removing ruin a good idea? I don't think so. As some people mentioned it's not a big deal because good players ignored the perk anyway but it still was buying at least some time from survivors that went around to look for it. Did it manage to hold out for long? Definetely not in most of games but when it did stay up for long, killer could actually relax and play around with survivors.
Overall ruin was one of bandaid perks that devs introduced instead of actually tweaking the numbers. Now we will get a nerf to toolbox repair boost which will honestly do nothing as survivors can easily push out the gens anyway.
On the other hand I can guarantee devs won't notice anything wrong with the gen speeds as Peanitz announced they will consider doing. Why would they? New players manage to fix 1 gen in 15 games so gen speeds are fine.
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Amen.
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