General Discussions
General Discussions
after nerf Hex Ruin... Dead Hard need a nerf also (80% survivors use this perk)
Comments
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I mean, maybe it fits the criteria but I honestly don't mind the perk. Maybe just remove the dash portion of it, otherwise it's a fine perk.
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I would think DS needs nerfed first, it’s almost impossible to play around. DH you can bait, in which case the most they get out of it is dead hard for distance sometimes reaching a pallet
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Ruin was used by 45% of players and 80% of red rank players. Please show me your official stats on how much Dead hard is used.
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The only perk used as much as ruin on the survivor side is self care. By a large margin.
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According to dev stats, that we never see. I'm not saying they're liars but they use unverifiable stats to justify #########, I'd love an API that can track things like perk usage and dcs/kills/escapes.
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I mean I already see too much self care in red ranks. I'm sure a ton of people in ranks below that use it too. Most people play claud first to just get self care lol
Guess it's time to nerf self care again
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It is a good perk for low rank players where games last 20 minutes.
Not sure why Red Ranks use it tho. You would think they'd know better
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I'm sure it has to do with survivors being able to rank up to red ranks easily even when they're pretty bad.
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I suppose so. I think that also contributes to some of the frustration Red Rank Killers feel. One match, they can win easily and it doesn't feel like a challenge. The next, they get stomped and they feel they never had a chance.
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And I see a lot of red rankers with DH/DS/BT/Adren/Unbreakable, I also see a decent amount of Self Care but less than those other 4 perks. But the issue is, that's what I see. I dunno if the official statistics back me up, and I have no way of verifying it.
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Dead Hard is already nerfed by dedicated servers.
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You don't get it. Survivors are 80% of the player base. If something annoys them, it has to go! They bring their friends, spend money on cosmetics to be "cool" and peer pressure their friends to do the same. The loner killer not so much, so why give a #########? They don't bring in the big money. Catering to them is a waste of time and resources aka money. Their will always be enough killers, because DBD is the only game with that feature. So their is no where to go.
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ur answer make it easier reflexion for me
adrenaline, dead hard and ds need a nerf because it's used for a 80% survivors on red rank.
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Self-Care is far and away the most commonly used Survivor perk. Dead Hard is common, but it does not appear to be in an unhealthy position.
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on red ranks I seen more DS than self-care, survivors use Inner Strength
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Removing the dash portion of it would make it a garbage exhaustion perk as killers will just wait it out.
The dash part of the perk is what makes it even worth running at red ranks. If you take that away then it'll just be another perk being thrown to the void of unused perks.
We all remember what happened to Vigil
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Yes but what Groot is asking you is how do you know for certain that 80% of survivors are using it.
Where's your proof? Where's your evidence?
No need to reply as I'll know the answer
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DH was already nerfed when dedicated servers were introduced lol also I don't understand how a perk like DH could be op, all you literally have to do is get close to the survivor, wait for him to use it and then swing is it that hard? 🤣
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It's a combination of factors. Self-Care being so highly used isn't a big deal, because it's not breaking anything. But Ruin being so highly used was more of an issue because of its warping effect on the entire game experience.
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It's no better than the other exhaustion perks, and it's definitely not over used.
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Can you guys make a statics later with kill rates for every killer in game after the ruin nerf? Please :)
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You nerf it down to the ability to use 1 health state and I'd by down with that.
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Lol. Forgot to add "for survivors" on the end of your sentence there, bud. If you actually cared about "the entire game experience" you would've released the ruin change with a fix to gen speeds or added a second objective for survivors. Instead you guys ignored the impact this would have on the killers experience, while also saying yous are coming after the other slow down perks killers have.
Also, how about releasing the stats for us to see for ourselves. Many streamers and I see borrowed time, ds, dead hard, and adrenaline used just as much as selfcare, so until you release these stats I'm calling bs on that claim.
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Oh yes, I agree. Instead of working properly 20% of the time like it already does in dedicated servers it should work properly only 5% of the time. Too op plz nerf
No survivor perk besides DS interaction with lockers should be nerfed right now.
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Dead hard is just easier to manage than the other exhaustion perks. The only downside is that Dead Hard can be countered.
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Dead hard for dodge hits is fine.. dead hard for distance is broken.. it doesn't matter how many people use it, tell me how fun is playing an m1 killer and deal with that extra loops due to hard hard.. ah of course it's a surivor perk so if it's fun for survivors it's fine! not biased btw
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Sprint Burst letting you get to the infinite all the way across the map is also pretty broken you could say.
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Adding two new changes at the same time instead of one at a time is what causes clusterf*cks in games. They need to see how ruin change affects everything before adjusting the game around it. Very difficult to tell which part is lacking if you release both at the same time.
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There actually aren't enough Killers, which is why Survivor queues tend to be so long. That, and a lack of solo survivors. And there are actually several games with the killer feature, like Don't Even Think, Friday the 13th, and a few others who's names I can't think of atm( one in which a power up deal transforms the first person to it into a chosen killer for a short time, then leaves them and resets, and another that features ragdoll like characters). It's not unique to DbD at all.
Killers are really the only unique characters in the game, since perk sharing pretty much relegates the Survivors to different skins/voices. The only real difference is that some are louder vocally or have brighter, flashier clothes, making them somewhat better suited to decoy duty or looping. I'd rather spend my money on a unique killer than a character I don't want to play, especially since I can just wait for most of their perks to just pop up in the shrine.
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Out of curiosity, what are "problem" perks that you are currently looking at or observing?
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@Waffleyumboy 99ing sprint burst can be in a certain way, but i'd rather deal with sprint burst at the beginning, so i can also ignore that chase, instaed of getting dead hard'ed half chase without counterplay, and wasting another minute.
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Sooo, let's put it this way. If 80% of survivors carry this ability. Why wouldnt you expect it? Or do you just swing at survivors the second they get in range? This ability hardly effects good killers. If you watch any of them you literally see them ride a survivors butt and say "deadhard?" It's so freaking obvious it's almost worthless. Occassionally you see a good play like lurching to a pallet to drop it or vault a window, but that's it. If that's the case, you might as well merc every perk that's commonly used for all characters. That's like saying "is NoED annoying for new players?" Yeah let's nerf noed because new players have a hard time with it. If we're going by that logic, oh boy
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Out of curiosity, did the devs ever investigate the reasoning for ruin's high usage in higher ranks before deciding to change it?
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Well it's why Ruin saw a nerf.
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I got this from a reliable source: 80% of red rank players. 😁
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Deadhards not nearly as common to new players nor nearly as hard to deal with as new people trying to get the timing for a hex skill check. Ruin could break games for new players because most new survivors had to start looking for ruin and would spend anywhere between a minute to the entire match looking. Deadhard is a lurch forward one time that can save you but even as a new killer it's easy to catch them off of unless you're up against someone much more experienced. DS was a problem with new killers and an annoyance to old killers (still is to the ones forced to tunnel or go for them when gates are up) more than deadhard and it was balanced fairly well. Deadhard is fine.
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Decisive strike is used a lot at high ranks and can have a major impact on the game and especially the killers momentum. Would this be an example of a perk being looked at? Or would it have to be used to the extent of something like self care?
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And let them keep self healing off in a corner for half the match so they never touch a gen before they get killed. Solo queuing needs some form of self heal, and the more time players spend self healing the more time the killer has, so self care is one of the best perks for killers.
Now if you wanna talk about Adrenaline and the abusable nature of running DS, BT, Adrenaline, and OoO. Then we would have a real discussion about balance.
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Yeah, rank 20 survivors learning the games mechanics before they get their shiny rank 1 badge two days later. Oh wait....
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Oh I actually agree DH is fine. I think the dash is a little forgiving, but it's a perk that doesn't need to be looked at really. I'm just saying it's an extremely popular perk, and a player recently released a data set of their 106 games, perks such as DS and BT saw a 56% and 50% play rate between ranks 13 and 1, with play rates rising to Ruin's 80% in later games. He didn't keep track of DH but with devs saying that these aren't perks that see the same play rate as ruin, and then seeing this data set and comparing to my own experiences in the game, I'm doubting their claims.
Personally I actually object to nerfing based on popularity, but with the devs having set a precedent for it I'd hope they keep up with it for the sake of balance.
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How often will you killer mains open threads with nerf DH thus not being able to give any valid arguments? You guys are hilarious.
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I still dont get why so many people love this perk so much, at this point its pretty much obsolete.
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Ruin was highly used because the synergy between toolboxes, repair perks, and their effect on the team as a whole is ridiculous beyond ridiculous.
Old Ruin affected a whole team, and forced some to look for the totem while others worked, which ment slowing the game down to the point a killer could stalk and not have to break neck it around the map like a Nascar driver trying to catch up.
Conversely, Prove Thyself affects the whole team AND synergizes with other repair perks, toolboxes, and toolbox add-ons. It effectively makes it expected that an swf team will pop the first gen in under a minute, and the next two to three in the following in as many minute, if not less.
You claim it was due to popular overuse that your nerfed Ruin, but it seems that your view of popularity is equivalent to how many people use a perk per match, which in this case, isn't a fair metric. Only one needs it to benefit the while team and tip the scales massively in their favor, and most see it on at least one Survivor in nearly every red ranked match played, yet you say it's not an issue? We're talking about a perk that picks everyone's speed up by 10%. At 80 second base time, that's 8 seconds off, with no other aid. But add even one other Survivor, and that's a guaranteed 16 second reduction, on top of the speed boost granted for multiple Survivors working simultaneously. Since at least three hit the first gen, plus have at the minimum one toolbox, were seeing gens done in 50 seconds, possibly less. That isn't acceptable.
Hosting a PTB with the ruin change should have happened first to sample how it would affect the game at large. But instead, it's just thrown at us with the barely veiled excuse that we need to play other perks because slowing the he down isn't fun for one side of the whole? Repairing generators is the Survivors ENTIRE JOB.
If it were in a PTB, then it would be one thing and I seriously doubt anyone would complain, but it's in the live game. We're live players, not your experiments.
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But at least remove the immunity part of dead hard. I don't understand why that is even an effect you added to Dead Hard. All it get's used for is to get away with performing bad plays.
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Show me some official stats saying those perks are used by 80% of red rank survivors.
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Show me the official stats that say Ruin was used 80% of the time. You can't, because BHVR wouldn't even bother making a graph, not to even speak of some sort of API to let the players parse the data independently.
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Without immunity the survivor would have a hit register on them before the dash happens. Then DH would be a worse SB.
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hahahaha i am main killer red rank, dead hard is too easy xD
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I don't doubt that self care is the most common survivor perk but can I ask how are survivor perk's usage is calculated?
Is it based off of if its in a game at all?
Ex: A perk could be used in 80% of games but only by one person meaning this calculation is 80%
Or.
Is it based off of how many survivor's per game use it?
Ex: A perk could be used in 80% of the games but only by 1 person meaning it has a 20% playrate (80/4=20)
Or
Is it a combination of the 2 aka how frequent it is to appear and how common is its usages when it does?
Ex: This is a very subjective way of doing this but this is mainly for calculating the impact of escape rates and general gameplay impact overall: If its used in 80% of games by 25% of the people who gain 50% higher escape rate it should if that's always consistent mean it greats both a massive escape rate increase while also massively impacting gameplay.
These 3 different ways of calculating the numbers will give wildly different results so can I just want to ask HOW they are calculated?
Edit: TLDR: Effectively how do you guys interpate the numbers?
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What a load of cr*p. Any experienced player could see what was wrong with the game, which is why 80% of killers ran ruin at red ranks. The game is already a "clusterf*ck" because the incompetent balance team rushed out a change, which removed the band-aid that helped fix outdated game mechanics.
Then they double down on refusing to fix the issue and even say they're "looking into" the other slowdown perks killers have. That's not the mindset of a development team that wants to fix the core issues of their base game.
But let's put that aside for a second. The devs have the community participate in vanilla games all the time. That should've given them plenty of info on what was wrong and needed fixing.
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