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Do the devs really expect Killers to win 12 chases before Survivors finish 5 gens?
This is ideally how the game is supposed to be played. With the Ruin nerf there is no way Killers can play this way. Slugging, Camping, and/or Tunneling are required to win. The math does not add up.
Comments
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Are you aware that you can defend the gens?
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4 survivors, 5 generators, 80 seconds per generator, survivors can work on seperate generators, or work together with barely any efficienty penalty. Killer needs to do 12 chases, a chase can be extended to 30 seconds minimum by just running forward after the onhit sprintburst.
The math alone is unfavourable for the killer.
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The devs want to balance around 2 kills. But they probably also don't want the killer to tunnel, so let's say, the killer should win 9-10 chases on average.
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The devs are oblivious when it comes to red ranks.
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Nah, balance it around the killer focusing hard on two survivors while the other two are ignored and left to do gens. I'm sure that'll be fun for all four. /s
If each match is supposed to be two kills and two escapes and we're not just talking averages here, then the devs are actually balancing around all five gens being completed every match. For anyone to then make it out those exit gates, you really need at least three survivors to make it that far. So, that means the killer gets one kill at most while the gens are up, and then the killer gets their second kill while the other two escape. That's how the matches should go if we take the devs literally at 2k2e per match.
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They actually expect you to win 6 chases, and get 2 kills while 2 survivors live. That is apparently how the game is balanced. Issue with that is, their built-in win condition (emblems) don't line up with that.
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Eh, I don't pay much mind to what Peanits or anyone from BHVR says, to be honest. Peanits also said "We're not removing ranks from the tally screen".
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Even with slugging and camping you won't win against a decent team.
It only works on randoms like knock out only works on randoms.
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I'm about 99% sure he never said that. Can you provide a quote?
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The thing is, I feel like you can't lose a single chase without being so far behind you will have to sweat to even have a chance to come back, unless you are leaving somebody and even then it could be too late.
You either keep up all game or you lose.
Balancing around two kills is a very frail way to do it in a snowbally game like this, I would understand if they implied you are tunneling down one.
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This exactly. DBD hates it if I have something else running when I open it and normally refuses to go full screen afterwards. This cost me the game as I lost a Claudette early into the match on swamp because I ended up clicking out of it when I was going for a hit. This happened several times ingame and it lead to everyone escaping but losing that Claud put me at a major disadvantage as about 2 gens were done when I finally downed and hooked someone.
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He also said - and that infuriates me still - that with the ruin nerf, killers just derank to the rank they are comfortable with. But since i get all red rank survivors even at killer rank 15, thats really just laughing in your face.
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I'm 100% sure there's a search function.
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Yeah, I looked through all his comments from the past two weeks and couldn't find anything to that effect. Also, you're the one accusing someone of lying, so the onus is on you to back up your claim, not me.
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Oh yeah. I can't count how many games I lost as killer because of a single mistake. A single bad mindgame in a chase, a single missed swing.
Meanwhile as survivor, I stack up mistake after mistake after mistake and still escape and double-pip.
Its crazy, right?
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I believe he's refering to this:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/976390#Comment_976390
Someone right after asked the direct question but looks like there was no answer. Most people assume the worst when left without answers and I can't blame them, honestly.
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Actually, if I remember correctly, someone posted a screenshot of a mod on Discord or something answering a question saying they decided not to remove ranks. However, I do not have the screenshot, and I'm recounting this from memory, so it's just hearsay. But I'm pretty sure that someone official actually did respond somewhere other than the forums saying they changed their minds about doing it. Of course, they could've just meant they decided not to do it during the newest patch.
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Right, so all he actually said was that ranks hadn't been removed from the tally screen. He very intentionally didn't say that they would not be removing them, since that would have been a lie.
They were left without answers because he's probably contractually bound not to reveal changes before they're officially announced, and if he had said that they weren't going to hide ranks, he would have been lying. So what else would you have expected him to do?
I know everyone wants to convince themselves that the devs are deceptive monsters, but if anything I would take that as proof of Peanits doing his best to avoid being dishonest with the community, in spite of all the accusations to the contrary.
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Oh, I'm very sorry, didn't know about the screenshot and I'm not very active on Discord in general so I couldn't know about said original source.
Again, sorry for assuming.
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Didn't mean to put it that way, I guess the "I don't blame them" was too much, I was just trying to help finding the comment because I, too, remembered something similiar, even if essentially different after a recent read. I don't believe the Devs are "monsters", I know there are decisions to be made from a buinsness standpoint, I know they can't tell us everything right away.
I'm on the side of the community that finds most of their decisons to be questionable but I have no insight and I'm no buinsnessman.
Anyway, I'm going off topic for the third time in a row so I guess I'll stop writing in this thread.
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To be fair, that really is skirting the line of honesty and communication with the player base. Like, that isn't a lie I agree, but dude you have to admit that is really pushing the envelope.
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No I know, sorry, I didn't mean to direct any of that at you. It was meant to be directed towards the people you're referring to, who take silence as an indication that the devs are lying to them.
I just get really sick of people confusing their own interpretations of other people's comments with what was actually said, and throwing accusations like "Peanits is a liar" around without proof. Constructive criticism is great, but if we're going to criticise things the devs say or do, we should get our facts straight first and criticise things they actually said or did, not what someone else accused them of.
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No, no, don't apologize. Like I said, hearsay. I've only been able to find one screenshot of a reply on Discord:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/989375/#Comment_989375
but it's the same basic stuff Peanits said, that ranks will still be on the tally screen in the next update.
It was the only Discord screencap I could find. Many threads about the leak were deleted when it first came out, and because of that there ended up being so many conflicting stories flying around that everyone has different memories of what they read and saw. That may be the screencap I saw and I'm misremembering (like everyone else), or maybe there's some other screencap out there somewhere.
Even if there is a screenshot somewhere of one of the mods/devs saying "We decided not to do it," it probably goes on to say "in this update."
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He did misinterpret the comment he was replying to, but if they had been saying that ranks had been removed from the tally screen already just based on hearsay (which is exactly what a lot of other people were saying) I think it's best to clear up the misinformation rather than say nothing and let people get themselves all worked up over it before they knew the full story.
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ermm no? they expect you to do 6... you are not meant to 4k
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Exactly.
A perfect game is a 2k and 2 escape, which means you have to win 6 chases at least. Or by building up pressure and chase them away from the gens and have them injured you can buy some extra time to win even more chases.
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Fair enough. The communication barrier here is somewhat apparent though regardless.
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It would be nice to have more information in general, of course, but the impression I get is that the CMs do their best to keep us in the loop as much as they can without disclosing confidential information. And we should remember that we have only paid for the right to play their game, and any additional information or communication we do get from them is a privilege, not something we're entitled to.
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Killers go on post-game rants about balance if 2 survivors make it out. People feel like they’ve lost even if they haven’t.
I think it needs to be clearer to them to stop the whining. “Entity displeased” needs to be changed to something more positive lol
Look at the other thread where someone talked about winning 20 games in a row at rank 1 as Doc and how DS was stopping that from being the norm. Like if DS was the only thing stopping that then it would be the only perk balancing the game lmao
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No they don't, they expect you to slug and camp and all that stuff to give you pressure
I know the meme of the moment is that the devs are survivor sided but they don't actually follow the survivors little handbook for good killers
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Actually, you only are expected to win 6 chases because not every Killer deserves a 4k every game (unless all of the survivors in your game are potatoes). Killers are supposed to get 2 kills per match because that’s the balanced and fair number.
However, in order to even pip up, you need to get the two kills after chasing them for as long as possible, maybe even hitting a stray survivor once or twice on the way.
So in short: not 12 chases because you’re expected to only win 6, but, the chases and kills will have to be dragged out in order to pip up because the emblem system is stupid.
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But you can even get 8 hooks and won't kill a single one by doing so. So you're telling me you should tunnel 2 survivor every game and camp them? Kk :)
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With this thinking, you have to focus on 2 survivors and ignore the other 2. Not fun for the survivors being focused/tunneled. Not fun for the survivors being ignored, as they don't get chased. Not fun for the killer as they pretty much have to ignore 2 survivors and actively search for the 2 already hooked.
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1v2 mode confirmed :)
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No, I'd never encourage camping and tunneling. I only stated that this is the minimum for a "perfect" game ( even though a "perfect" game is something else in my point of view). But in some cases it also might be justified. Let's say you already won 8 chases and got 1 kill. Exit gates are open and you hook a survivor. A lot of people would camp to secure their kill, which is understandable. Some would go and try to get another hook or kill, which is what I would do if I don't have a kill challenge. Highly depends what to do in what situation.
I mean it is difficult to balance this game at all. Sometimes if the survivors are potatoes you can even get all 12 hooks before one single gen is done...
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Yeah it's been pointed out many times. The math showing the time to complete objectives for each side isn't even remotely close or reasonable. Killers literally don't have enough time.
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You are completely omitting
- Healing
- Rescuing teammates
- Doing bones
- Looking for gens
- Searching chests
Its dumb to "look at the math" when it comes to DBD, there are so many variables that affect gameplay and make the game easier/harder for both the killers and the survivors
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Rescuing teammates and finding gens is quick. Many survivors don't bother healing and if the healing is being done by a teammate or med-kit, it is pretty fast. Chests and bones are completely optional.
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The problem is people ignore those
Much times they dont heal (i can do gens get hooked and rescued again) dont do bones (thats why NOED hate)
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Yes these things can be relatively quick. But they all add up to time off gens. If a person is on a hook 1 or 2 people will come for the save. Leaving 1 or 2 people on gens. If the killer finds a person on a gen while another is on the hook. That's 1 or even 0 people on gens. All these things add time for the killer. Which is not to say early game doesn't need something to slow it down. It does. But that's why people trying to apply math to matches doesn't work. Too many variables.
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you dont have to do anything, weird to completely limit yourself in such a way.
Might as well have a bot play for you instead, you just play normal but the desired outcome is 2 die, 2 escape, if you 4k then something is not right.
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Thefirst 4 gens will be repaired after youve only finished 4 or 5 chases. What you do is force survivors to fix gens far apart so that you can guard the final 3 easy. Youll get 3 survivors that way easy
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You only need to win three chases to make it an even 3v1 like bhvr wants.
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You should never be going in with a 12 chase mindset. 12 hooks maybe, but even then, that's inefficient. But 12 chases shouldn't be the goal. Snowballing is just as viable as it ever was. Infectious Fright/Nurse's Calling is meta for me right now on most killers. It's the best stalling perk combo in the game right now.
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Survivors can escape Mori. Mori require 7 chases to kill everyone.
12, lol. That must be a full potato team.
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Well, technically a chase start as soon as you spot a survivor and ends with a) the survivor being hitted or b) the survivor breaking you LoS for 15 seconds. Meaning chasing and downing a survivor is not 1 chase but 2 chases, the first ends in the first hit and the second one with him being down.
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They are not. They are transforming ranks into MMR.
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Allegedly...and "Considering removing ranks from the tally screen".
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Yes because why Show something that is not used for match making anymore?
I don't know how the MMR thing will turn out but I hope it will match more accurately.
I will not miss any rank and as far as I understood from discord and notes, the MMR will be shown instead of rank.
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Just be in 4 different places at once bro.
Imagine not being able to split yourself into multiple beings, git gud.
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