And they're covering up bad match making
Comments
-
The other thread from that Scott guy is right. There are too many variables for any sort of skill based system to work. Ranks are also mostly useless, but they're better than nothing.
I had three killer matches this morning. I got a bad map as Wraith against gen jockeys. I got seven hooks, one kill, three escaped. I feel I played as well as I could without resorting to douchebaggery and the game depipped me. Too many pallets. Too much sprint burst. All three remaining survivors had Adrenaline. Then I was doing an Oni ritual and again got a bad map (his map, bad in both design and it's just too god **** dark). Got two hooks before getting stuck in a pallet and had to quit. Wonder what MMR would say about this game?
Last match was against a sweaty four stack but they were too altruistic and could have easily gotten all the gens done but were too focused on healing and saves and bodyblocking. Got a 4K with 30k points. Got a pip, but I played much better in my Wraith game where I lost a pip. The variables are just too large, there's too much RNG.
This just seems like a stupid idea to hide how bad matchmaking is.
1 -
Except there are at least two problems with that . First they can just say, “well yes Meg played poorly on your team but her last 10 games she was very skillful so this must have been a bad game for her it happens.”
And that leads to the bigger problem, what did Meg do so skillfully the past 10 games? Did she escape and do gens because her team carried her? Did she play against a lot of killers trying to farm blood points or trying weird challenges?
The problem is everything is hidden, including what is considered skillful in the first place.
0 -
That’ why I said it is impossible to have a perfect ranking system. We just wanted a better one that could be adjusted after adjusting the matchmaking.
Ando no, everything is not hidden, in the current ranking system you know exactly what needs to be done to rank up. It will be hidden in the new MMR system but not in the current one.
1 -
But you’re saying once they confirm the skill system works we can ask for buffs/nerfs how will we know the skill system is working fine?
Let me wan you through a scenario and you tell me your thoughts, I’m open for feedback. you’re going to play a game and notice two of your teammates are potatoes, but the killer is really good and so is one other teammates. So do you think the MMR is working based on this game?
If you say no, why? It’s possible those potato teammates Are SWF if the good player. It’s possible they are good but are screwing around for some reason like a Rift challenge or maybe they’re a streaming doing something like Puppers playing blindfolded.
My point is that you can never be sure if it’s working or not, and while like you said currently the emblem system is right there the new skill system will be hidden. So you can never actually prove to the devs if it isn’t working, therefore it never needs “fixed.”
0 -
Sorry, thought I was answering to another thing (it was on another topic about the subject were I stated that I don't think the changes will be good and explained why).
But answering to this one, never mind the last response since it was based on something else:
I understand what you're saying here, but you are also basing yourself on one game only. What I meant with my answer was that if they confirm the system is working fine and you find a Meg that performs poorly and all other games you find people that perform more or less like you, than you know for yourself that that Meg probably had a bad match and the system is working. If you constantly find yourself playing with what seems to be alot better or a lot worse players than you, then you know the system doesn't work properly.
BUT, even if the last one happens, lets say you are constantly being paired up with people that are worse than you making you "lose" almost every match, you have the legitimacy to say that killers are too strong or too weak because the devs stated that the system is working.
For what I meant by legitimacy it is irrelevant if the system is working fine or not, what is relevant is if the devs consider it fine or not because of what i said in the last paragraph ;).
0 -
1 -
You’re right about that, you need to look at multiple games but what do you mean by “perform more or less like you?” We go back to the root problem of not knowing what is considered skillful.
Again a few examples, you lead the killer on a 7 minute chase (extreme) to start the game during which two survivors do all the gens and open a gate. You get hooked any everyone bails on you so you die. Exactly how “skilled,” was everyone? On a scale of 1-10 how do you get ranked? The two people who did gens? The last person who literally crouched all game but escaped? Now keep in mind your rating may not be the same as BHVR and they won’t tell us.
Now let’s look at a totally even game, everyone does a little more than 1 gen worth of progress, gets chased about 2 minutes total and everyone manages 1 safe unhooks then you all escape. Did the order of chases matter? If I got chased first and used all the pallets then you had to rely on looping windows for the same length of time shouldn’t you be considered more skillful?
How about your perks, if I played DS BT DH and adrenaline but you ran a goofy plunder, ace, open handed and no mither are we equal skill? I would argue you are more skillful because my perks carried me whereas yours almost hurt you.
0 -
Well, you're absolutly right about all that and I don't disagree with you, plus, not knowing what is considered is a bad thing and that's why I don't agree with the new changes and you can read my post about that on this topic where I agree with the OP:
What I was responding in this topic wasn't about that at all, I was just answering to that specific question you asked:
"Also how would players be aware if they're being matched with an opponent of an equal skill, except your word that the system is working as intended?"
And I just said you will know the same way you know now, nothing will change in that regard. By playing a lot of matches you will just have pretty good feeling if you're playing with better or worst players overall. I wasn't disagreeing nor agreeing with you or the new system, I was just genuinely just answer to that and telling an advantage that comes from it (the legitimacy for asking for balance to your own experience).
The Win/win meant: if the system works, great, everyone stays happy and the need for buffs and nerfs will be easier to detect. If the system doesn't work, people will still be asking for buffs and nerfs but nothing really changed from what happens now but at least, since we don't really know what the system is based on, we can legitimatly ask for buffs and nerfs without any regard for other players experiences since we are suposedly playing with people of the same skill level.
But once again I say, I was only talking about that and the fact that you will know if you're being paired up with people of the same skill level. For my opinion on the system itself, well... that's a different story and you can read the topic I "quoted" above ;)
0 -
Which will
1. Not work since you don't take any advice from skilled players, so how do YOU (bhvr) want to make such a system while you yourself aren't skillful?
2. Still could hide bad matchmaking since you will also hide the "skillscore" to everyone. So basically you could match up a 100 scored player with a 10 scored player and noone of the playerbase will know for sure if the matchmaking is working as it should.
0 -
The problem with this is that people need to see something that shows that the system in place is actually working (like MMR or an actual rating instead of ranks). Trusting the developers on this when they are hiding something probably won't work for a lot of people, because psychologically it doesn't matter that you are hiding the ranks because they don't get used in matchmaking anymore, it still suggests that you have "something to hide".
The other thing about the new way to determine your skill is that it is basically impossible to do, as there is almost an infinite amount of variables that would need to be taken into account and there are simply too many to make it work.
I've looked through several discussions that Devs have commented on and I couldn't find a single one where a Dev replied to this concern. Is it because you don't have an answer to that (which is understandable because it is practically impossible to do) or is it because you are not allowed to share any details (understandable too because if people knew what exactly to do they'd just try to do only those things)?
I'd refer to ScottJunds latest video, he explains the situation quite well there.
0 -
Let's be honest, the majority of people think that the reason they aren't telling us is so we can never say it's working incorrectly.
1 -
This I agree making rank not visible will be bad oh well they are the type to make a mistake and not learn from it
2 -
Yeah I totally agree with you on that, hiding the MMR is just stupid. But as I mentioned you can still tell how good other players are based on their performance so you'll still be able to tell if they actually did fix the issue or not, it is weird that they wanna hide the MMR though.
1 -
The match making sucks. I literally did one match just then as the killer and just DC half way through it with how good the team was. I'm sick of getting SWF groups in this game and not even been able to tell they're all communicating together.
I'll happily take the DC penalty all day because this game sucks at match making.
0 -
We can tell, in our opinion, if the matchmaking is even but the devs and their defenders in the forums will just say get gud and claim it’s working fine.
As a red survivor who keeps getting paired against yellow/green killers it isn’t fun.
0
