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Dead by daylight as of right now. (Long text.)

DwarvenTavern
DwarvenTavern Member Posts: 2,495
edited January 2020 in General Discussions

Before I start off, yes I know I said I'm done with dbd, if anyone remembers my post. I said I'm done with the game and a few people made some jokes about it. I know I will get [Bad word] from the "comedians." I still haven't changed my mind, but I also don't want to sit around and let this go down a destructive path. I'd feel guilty if I didn't do at least something. I'll talk about things we already know, the reason why is to clarify it a bit more for those who don't quite understand, yet are interested. I'll even explain what could have been better and mention the issues players have. Without anymore delay, let's begin.

Let's start with the most obvious. Dead by daylight has went through a lot of recent changes that have caused outrage and controversy. The most prominent is the infamous Hex: Ruin change.

Hex: Ruin

Reworking Hex: Ruin was probably the most bold move the devs have made for killers, it was made as a simple bandaid fix for an issue that's prominent for years. Generators. Generators can be done within quick succession. They're normally 80 seconds, but with the right perks, addons, maps, and teams, that time will severely drop. Like I said, Ruin was a bandaid fix, for weaker killers, ruin was used to temporarily fix that particular issue by making gens regress when get a good skill check, even preventing that extra progression when a great skillcheck was it. That ceased some genrushing potential. Now that it's been "touched up," there is barely anything to help with the gens speed and especially since the devs are not in favor for multi stacking perks to slow down any progression. That being said, this is the situation. You have a cut on your arm (gens) you use a bandaid to cover up the wound in hope for it to heal (ruin) But, someone yanks off the bandaid (ruin nerf) then someone else rubs dirt in your wounds (gen rushing and potential lack of slowdowns.)

People are upset with this change for obvious reasons, there wasn't even any compromise to this issue, gens times are still bad and toolboxes have been indirectly buffed by this change. Hence why there has been significant increase of toolbox uses as of lately.

What could have been done instead?

Gotta mention something first, Ruin definitely did need to be nerfed, but not like this and without tackling another major issue. They mentioned that it was used 80% of matches in red ranks and it was being way over used. I gotta trail off here quick, that's a bad excuse to use to start something like this. Now, what could have been done along side the ruin change? Options are very limited. You could argue that there has to be secondary objectives, while I agree, it's not possible in this current state. A great example is the 2018 Halloween event: Hallowed Blight. There was also the lunar year event as well, but the Halloween event was a MAJOR issue. What did it do? It created a secondary objective. The map was riddled with these glowing sickly looking flowers that you could interact with. There was a channel for it (progression bar) like a generator, while it was short, it clearly bought enough time for killers to get a major spike in kill rates. If you thought Freddie's was high right now, imagine him during that event. By the way, this was OPTIONAL. People kept dying because no one would do the objective, the flowers offered more points and were more easily abused. So can you imagine if they implemented a PERMANENT version of that? You'd need a cornated team. *cough* swf *cough* Killers would also most likely receive a bit more than a simple perk nerf if they kept exceeding their kill quota. Remember. Ruin was nerfed because it was over used. (Quick mention. Endgame collapse is different. I know someone was thinking that. That was made to tackle the end of the game, this is DURING. It would be a lot harder to deal with because you would have to rework the whole objective, possibly for both sides.) They would essentially have to touch up the whole game. Okay, how about generator progression nerf? Also horrendously bad, if you increase the time too much, killers would still be extremely powerful by a indirect buff. While this sounds off, it could theoretically work. A skillcheck rework. What if skillchecks were more engaging and possibly life threatening if they were screwed up on. Here's how I imagine it. Now I know it will never work, but it's an idea that is more possible than a major overhaul to the objective, because they would have to do it for both sides. Here's the idea. Instead of skillchecks being that boring circle with bars clearly indicating where you have to land that needle, what if it was button commands. Quick time events that could possibly move, unlikely, but has the option. The doctor being able to move them more often. (His ultra rare addon could have a fake quick time event to through you off. Two buttons but one actually works or the fake one will have no noise to go with it. I know about Huntress's Lullaby. When I have an idea on what to do, I'll edit this post.) And if you complete these skillchecks quickly, you would get a great skillcheck, but instead of it simply giving you an extra 2 or 3% progression bonus, it could do something else. Like a silent gen or something else. But, if you fail, you regress a gen fairly easily. 9% and with a small chance that you hurt yourself because the generator freaking explodes. I'm currently thinking of more ideas that could work. As for toolboxes? Oh goodness, all toolboxs should only allow a good skillcheck bar like Autodidact. The fact that you still can get great skillchecks on toolboxes is ridiculous.

That was a lot of text for one thing. Now we'll move on to a different subject that everyone is not happy about. Don't worry, it's not as long because we all understand this issue.

What about MMR/ELO?

no. It will never work on this game, no matter what we say, it still is going to happen. That's the worst part, ranking in this game is easy and that will exploit it. By alot. I also believe that swf would possibly screw with this system even more. Please don't do this, this will end poorly. If people are begging you to turn off dedicated servers because of how shotty it is, imagine THIS. We can see how bad this will be.

How about the battle pass and cosmetics?

I'm so upset that this has become a thing in this game, why? While I'm on board with the cosmetics, I am not for the battle pass. (That is what it is, don't argue that it isn't, it's literally copied and pasted from fortnite.) This is clearly a cash grab and that is insanely disappointing, that's actually one of the reasons why I stopped playing dbd, because it is trying to get quick cash for almost no work effort. Except for the design team, they always put in a lot of amazing work. I spending money on stuff that just rewards cosmetics, but the design team puts a lot of effort in to their crafts.

Killer and survivor chapters.

When I see a chapter coming out, I no longer get excited at the endless possibilities for killers and survivors, I instead think of the freaking perks. Normally that would not be a bad thing, but since this game is designed in a way of how a simple perk can change the whole match for the better or the worse. Better being "it is doing something that should have been taken care of from the start.) I didn't get excited for any of the killers after the Spirit release, with the exception of GhostFace. I got excited because it was dbd's birthday and how crazy everything was.

The Archives seem pretty cool.

It actually does. But, it was still put together in a really bad way. It was and possibly to this day, still exploitable. Remember the infamous "six feet under challenge?" I still haven't completed mine. For those who don't know what that challenge is, that challenge requires you to play as any killer who has to sacrifice every single survivor with the basement hooks. Everyone was sweaty/toxic that day. Killers were mostly sweaty, while survivors were mostly toxic. What made it so bad was the fact that survivors could tell what was going on and disconnect from the match, just to rob the killer of their challenge. That was fun.

What should Behaviour do instead?

Work on the objective. See what the hell is going on instead of blindly drinking out of the ever so limited money fountain. This is the same company that managed to rework and bring life back into Death Garden. Remember when I said that they wouldn't add secondary objectives because they would need to rework their whole objective? It doesn't mean that they can't. They still can. I don't know about any of you, but I would personally be happier and spend more money on the game that has been fully reworked instead of a couple of chapters that introduce more [Bad wording] bandaid fixes that would only temporarily fix the issue and only for it to get nerfed because it took care of the problem that is UNIVERSALLY agreed to be the big issue in this game for everyone who finds the game extremely boring. Right now it seems like they're doing a somewhat decent job on the Archives, but I have no clue.

1.) It just came out

2.) I haven't touched dbd in a long time

So I have no clue if it's any better, if someone could clarify, I will love you forever.

I decided to make this post because of this survey they just released and it inspired me to make this post. But, the question that stood out the most for me was "Would you recommend this game to your friends."

My answer is a simple No.

The community is extremely sided, playing killers will give you a really bad time and cause your blood pressure to rise, survivors are incredibly boring unless you relentlessly bully the killer or find the underdog of killers, the rift is a cash grab, perks are either second chance perks or bandaid fixes, and the community is divided as all heck.

Am I asking for too much, oh my god yes.

Will this happen. I'm praying that it will, but we all understand that it won't.

P.S. If anyone makes extremely good comments for this post. Ideas, thoughts, or just comments. I will copy your text and post it in this post. If you give me your permission obviously and I will mention your name as well.

Wall of comments

I_Face_Camp: "I think the main problem is that the game is essentially having an identity crisis. Is it a competitive game or a casual game? This question was even in the new survey which I noticed. Personally I enjoy the game alot more when I go into it with a casual mindset. Many times I get sweaty and try to get 4ks and then just find myself getting frustrated. Other games have multiple game modes to accommodate competitive and casual players but DBD cannot do this because queues would become way to long. How they fix this problem I do not know."

ad19970: "I agree with your take on a second objective, the Hallowed Blight Event was a prime example as to how a second objective could butcher the entire game. Though I do think a second objective would still be possible, it should just probably not take as much extra time to complete as these flowers during the event did.

However, if there was a second objective to be added, the devs would have to work on so many other aspects as well. Some very weak killers might still end up needing some small buffs, but more importantly, the killers that are already strong, would become broken with a second objective, so they would need to be nerfed in some way, which could have the downside that they'd become less unique or less fun to play as. Tunneling and camping would also need to be nerfed in some way. And the devs would have to make sure that the second objective would not be any harder to complete for solo survivors than for swf survivors. Even maps would have to be looked at, as maps like Hawkins will probably end up being to good for killers, whereas maps like Bloodlodge or Haddonfield might still be too good for survivors.

The idea of making skill checks harder and adding quick time events is something that could be very interesting, the only problem I see is that it will hurt new players too much. New survivor players already struggle a lot in chases and such. Of course, new killer players do as well, but that's what balances the game out at low ranks as well. Which is why the actual skill of survivor and killer should always lie within the interaction of these two opposing sides. If the objective of survivors would also become harder to complete, this will probably end up in teams with new survivor players not making any progress at all, and simply dying to the killer one after the other, not depending much on the killers skill level at all anymore.

That's why I personally still think the best way to balance the game better for killers is to individually buff weaker killers and improve maps a bit so they become a bit fairer. Also, if killers are more powerful and maps are smaller, the interaction between the killer and each survivor will be more frequent. And that's exactly where the skill of the players should come into play.

I personally still don't think the game is in such a bad state as some people seem to believe. The game does have a fair amount of killers that are still viable, even without Ruin. But it is a problem that so many killers are not viable at the highest level of play, and that certain maps just feel a bit too unbalanced."

Post edited by DwarvenTavern on

Comments

  • I_Face_Camp
    I_Face_Camp Member Posts: 244

    I think the main problem is that the game is essentially having an identity crisis. Is it a competitive game or a casual game? This question was even in the new survey which I noticed. Personally I enjoy the game alot more when I go into it with a casual mindset. Many times I get sweaty and try to get 4ks and then just find myself getting frustrated. Other games have multiple game modes to accommodate competitive and casual players but DBD cannot do this because queues would become way to long. How they fix this problem I do not know.

  • AsePlayer
    AsePlayer Member Posts: 1,829

    I chuckled when that question came up. Easiest button press of my life on that casual button.

  • DwarvenTavern
    DwarvenTavern Member Posts: 2,495

    That's a very good point, do I have your permission to put your comment in my post? I figured it would be unique

  • AsePlayer
    AsePlayer Member Posts: 1,829

    It's not even that I'm casual. I'm fairly competitive, but this game is by no means a competitive game. There's way too much imbalance to even consider that possibility.

  • ad19970
    ad19970 Member Posts: 6,814

    Your post is pretty good. I agree with your take on a second objective, the Hallowed Blight Event was a prime example as to how a second objective could butcher the entire game. Though I do think a second objective would still be possible, it should just probably not take as much extra time to complete as these flowers during the event did.

    However, if there was a second objective to be added, the devs would have to work on so many other aspects as well. Some very weak killers might still end up needing some small buffs, but more importantly, the killers that are already strong, would become broken with a second objective, so they would need to be nerfed in some way, which could have the downside that they'd become less unique or less fun to play as. Tunneling and camping would also need to be nerfed in some way. And the devs would have to make sure that the second objective would not be any harder to complete for solo survivors than for swf survivors. Even maps would have to be looked at, as maps like Hawkins will probably end up being to good for killers, whereas maps like Bloodlodge or Haddonfield might still be too good for survivors.

    The idea of making skill checks harder and adding quick time events is something that could be very interesting, the only problem I see is that it will hurt new players too much. New survivor players already struggle a lot in chases and such. Of course, new killer players do as well, but that's what balances the game out at low ranks as well. Which is why the actual skill of survivor and killer should always lie within the interaction of these two opposing sides. If the objective of survivors would also become harder to complete, this will probably end up in teams with new survivor players not making any progress at all, and simply dying to the killer one after the other, not depending much on the killers skill level at all anymore.

    That's why I personally still think the best way to balance the game better for killers is to individually buff weaker killers and improve maps a bit so they become a bit fairer. Also, if killers are more powerful and maps are smaller, the interaction between the killer and each survivor will be more frequent. And that's exactly where the skill of the players should come into play.

    I personally still don't think the game is in such a bad state as some people seem to believe. The game does have a fair amount of killers that are still viable, even without Ruin. But it is a problem that so many killers are not viable at the highest level of play, and that certain maps just feel a bit too unbalanced.

  • DwarvenTavern
    DwarvenTavern Member Posts: 2,495

    I agree with you too, and as I mentioned it could be possible for secondary objectives if they completely reworked the whole game. Like they did with Death Garden. But, you got me with the maps, maps are a big issue for both sides. Even if they did rework the game, they still have to worry about what kind of map they have to deal with as well. Do you mind if I put your comment in my post?

  • ad19970
    ad19970 Member Posts: 6,814

    That's true. I always wonder if a secondary objective would be healthy for the game, especially if the game would get a sort of rework, but I doubt they want to change their game this fundamental three years later. It's much better to find a solution that they can just implement into the game as it is now.

    And sure, of course. I'd be happy.

  • emptyCups
    emptyCups Member Posts: 1,262

    I'm up for qte

    Gotta fix that painful struggle phase first my fingers hurt

  • NullEXE
    NullEXE Member Posts: 1,632

    They should make a new map with a new objective. Like you have to find Key's around a mansion to unlock the doors to the outside. I think that would be pretty cool, and add some freshness to the game.

  • ad19970
    ad19970 Member Posts: 6,814

    That struggle phase is so awful, I still don't quite get why it's still in the game. But for the reasons I stated in my otherpost, I think QTE's wouldn't be that good of an idea for the game. Unless they are pretty easy to pull off, and are just a way to make generators a bit more interesting. Then sure. But making the objective of survivors a challenge is not a good idea in my opinion, since otherwise new survivors will just lose every single match.

  • emptyCups
    emptyCups Member Posts: 1,262

    I'd make them exceedingly easy on the hook.


    But I'd make them more difficult on gens

    Difficulty is relative and vague... but it needs to be more involved then just holding and tapping when you hear the sound because I don't even need to look to hit greats

  • korean_zombie
    korean_zombie Member Posts: 442

    i think behavior could release a DBD pro-version for players with 500 or even 1000 hours as their target. New source of revenue, new maps, addresses the game being completely different for new players versus veterans. Maybe ditch the stealth areas like Yamaoka and focus on chase mechanics and 50/50 tiles. Maybe put a few strong tiles in the corners of the maps where gens can’t spawn.

  • I_Face_Camp
    I_Face_Camp Member Posts: 244

    That sounds terrible. Why would you suggest taking away stealth when it is such a unique and fun part of the game.

  • kate_best_girl
    kate_best_girl Member Posts: 2,184

    I would like to throw in the rarity of actually listening to player feedback??? We all screamed and shouted "PLEASE DO NOT REWORK RUIN!!!" and it was done anyways. Im not sure if you remember, but back in March of 2019 Thana was buffed MAJORLY!!! It was changed from leveling up by 6/9/12/15 to 6/12/18/24. This buff was regarded as not that bad and no one ever complained about it. It was a great perk and overall people started using it again. So then they took away the buff and in all honesty nerfed it to how it is now. It went from 6/9/12/15 to 4/8/12/16. As you can see a 1% buff that only applies when EVERYONE is hurt isn't much of a buff. I feel as though they ignore us too often and are just fixing mistakes they made in the past not actually working on what we want.

  • korean_zombie
    korean_zombie Member Posts: 442

    I agree with Ohtofu that a mori must be brought for a team of blendettes. Searching bushed isn't fun, its lame. If I'm reduced to searching bushes for the faint of heart, I'm uninstalling.

  • kcwolf1975
    kcwolf1975 Member Posts: 651
    edited February 2020

    I think adding a secondary objective would be very tough to do without ruining the core of the game. I tried to come up with something that wouldn't disrupt gameplay too much.

    Add a key that could unlock a randomly placed door/chest that has a special item in it. There would only be one key and it would be under one of the totems. This would encourage people to cleanse totems and then give an incentive to the one survivor that gets the key to go and search for the door/chest. It would be optional but i think it would allow the game to slow down a little.

    About the rift, I don't see what is so bad about it. It is a cash grab, but they do it right by making it totally optional and it is only for cosmetics. They even let you wait until the end so you can see exactly what you get before you spend any auric cells. You can even get your auric cells back if you complete it.

    I like a lot of the cosmetics their design team comes up with, but I can't bring myself to drop real money on a skin. The only ones i have are thru shards or prestige. With the rift, my cheap ass can get skins and keep getting my auric cells back for the next rift.