Honestly that Otz game is sooo far from normal survivors
First disclosure, I do think gen time could stand to be increased a bit and the game is survivor sided at high ranks, but...
Everyone in an uproar about that Otz youtube where he was constantly chasing and downing people and they still managed to finish four gens, how many of your teams are really like that?
As survivor I can lead the killer on a two minute chase and literally not see one gen pop, then find out one teammate was following us and the other is crouched in a corner.
As a killer I’ve lost mind games or ate a stupid DS and still managed a 4K with 4 gens left. Did I play well, not really, but survivors have some weird phobia to actually accomplishing anything useful.
So yes, that game video shows how unbalanced it can be at a certain level with certain addons, but again let’s not act like you even see that 1/10 games.
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Can we at least act like you should see that level of imbalance 0/10 times (unless the player skill gap is really big) and that the game should be balanced accordingly?
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The "everyone" in an uproar is a tiny silly small part of the community with a big mouth.
Honestly people need to stop being stupid.
Hell ironically:
If anything that vid showed that survivors need a boost, when so blind focussing on gens was sitll not enough for even 1 person to escape (yeah yeah Hatch).
PS, stop dragging even more attention to literally 1 match out of his daily 50 in which he 4k's 95% of the time....
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Personally the majority of my games are like that. Its just the current meta of do gens don't heal make it to EGC and you get a pretty damn near free escape with BT, DS.
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That game imo was really just sweaty survivors and Otz matching their sweat as well.
2 toolboxes + PT forced Otz to tunnel to even the playing field.
He made some mistakes here and there that caused him to waste too much time. Yet, he still managed a 3k out of a really good game. End of the day Otz is still a really skilled player, and his videos are his solid proof.
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Here we go again. BT and DS killer karens that think those 2 perks are the sole reason they lose.
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Nothing gets you a free escape against camping imo, I'm pretty sure at that point it's only hook trading.
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Wait, I'm confused... So now we're saying the survivors in that game were playing optimally??????
Those guys were pretty ######### and still got to the point they did. The whole discussion is look how hard he had to sweat against survivors that weren't even that good using TOP TIER killer Hillbilly. I mean give me a break, how many times did those survivors literally give up the one shot?
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A team of BT and DS users can force the escape if none of them are on death hook yet. But that’s mostly a coordinated team thing, if you’re solo chances are at least 1 teammate bails immediately to secure their escape
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Not at all, an optimal team with toolboxes and any looping ability Otz gets zero kills. But that type of team is so rare, I mean I know all killers like to use the excuse of “SWF deathsquad,” because I used to do it myself. Then you start realizing that those teams aren’t common at all even at red ranks.
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i know right! like come on that was an easy game, they didnt all have deadhard, DS, BT, Unbreakable, they wasted time healing just to get down by a chainsaw and they couldnt even loop and lasted a few seconds in a chase. all they did was hold the button to do gens, not even using the strongest toolboxes, was only 2 toolboxes, smallish map...
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I'm not complaining about the meta or the perks themselves, just stating how strong they are in the EGC hence the current meta of rushing to the EGC.
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Those groups are much more common than people think. They don't even have to be good, they just have to be efficient at holding M1 and not wasting time.
When the game is "fine" as long as the survivors are bad, that's an issue.
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I don't want this to come out wrong, but I'd love to know what time zone you play in as well as what system, because you will never hear that coming from a PS4 player. The culling usually begins at around 5pm, that's when survivor mode activates. Also, the average pool of survivor is getting better anyway, Solo survivor isn't that great of a hindrance if you are actually independently good at survivor in my opinion anyway... I'm rank 7 and survive, oh, maybe between 60- 75% of my games? But I don't play SWF especially now because I'm wait in lobby 60 minaphobic.
Now to be fair I do only play against red ranks.... But to be fair I'm currently rank 10, so yes, quite a few games can and have gone like this, even tho I still get my occasional 4K still and usually earlier in the day I can generally do fine. Maybe I'll upload games again and start sharing what I find while playing weaker killers (Although I'll say this... I get results with Legion quite often, and can still 4 iri with him, that travel speed and distance actually brings up a good point about one of the precieved worst killers).
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You don't have to do much to escape when the killer is bad.
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Hillbilly is pretty overrated, but yeah the survivors were just not afraid of doing gens.
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I mean I don't disagree with that. He's actually called OP by some in this very forum. But he was my first main, and I'll say he's still amongst the top tier of killers as far as raw ability to pressure and chase.
I would never call him a crutch killer or anything, but his design does make up for some lenient balance design philosophy.. Most of the time. Some maps just aren't made with him in mind.
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I play rank 1-2 survivor on PC and 8-ish killer so that is also against red rank survivors most games, eastern US. And the things you see survivors do is crazy like self care in a corner against sloppy butcher, self care against legion with no thanat, following a chase around without even having a flashlight to make a save, camping shack pallet and dropping it 20 seconds into the game, dropping a supper safe pallet and running before the killer even starts to break it and on and on
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If you don’t wanna believe me or think my situation is a one of, watch OhTofu okay 9pm same region at red ranks and watch the survivors he goes against. He’s constantly saying things like, “not to be rude but these survivors clearly don’t belong in red,” so maybe you’re just lucky to have all good survivors where you’re from
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The fact that he can be looped and can only 1 shot you out of position or get you on a curve is the only reason i think he is pretty balanced, maybe on the higher end of that said balance but still he's rewarding and has the tools to do his job.
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Sounds to me like you would benefit from blood warden good sire
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Those survivors got manhandled super hard. He played at a much higher level than them the entire game, and yet if he made even one more mistake in the early game, it was entirely possible that all or almost all of them could have escaped.
First, devs need to fix the many awful maps (why is Yamaoka still a map...?), and then go from there. He would have been able to pressure them better on some of the decent maps. On Yamaoka, even though he destroyed them, and played leagues better, they still nearly won. And they did nothing special that game. If matchmaking gets fixed, that kind of game will be the norm in every red rank game. Imagine if he wasn't billy.
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Imagine if Otz slugged correctly
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He hit at least four??? Trees or rocks outside of chases just trying to cross the map. Not talking about a couple he hit trying to curve, that’s understandable.
And I hate to be that guy but he had no gen slowdown perks, I know we don’t all wanna play the same four meta perks every game but if you play at high ranks you need to being a high rank build otherwise you don’t get to complain. It’s like if the Chiefs has showed up at the super bowl without scouting the 49ers, oh wait you mean we have to try hard to win that’s dumb.
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That has nothing to do with anything I just said.
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But it's true
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And blueberries are sweet. It's true. Waters also wet.
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Funny you mention, because I think that's EXACTLY it honestly. I'm playing on the west coast, and honestly I haven't seen a survivor try to heal at a pallet with no purple add on health kit since Self Care was nerfed. The only early pallets I face are when I play Doc, Clown, or Freddy. Also I'm currently rank 10 and ONLY face red to purple ranks survivors unless SWF is also present and brought a surprise guest.
That's exactly why I wanted to know region and time. Rank, doesn't so much matter to me. And I wasn't calling an indictment on your ability to reach red or anything, so please don't think that.
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Nope I didn’t take it that way, I agree region/system/time do matter... from everything I have seen the European and Russians are absolutely sweaty tryhards 100%
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Exactly, he's where most killers should be balance wise because he can be quite stress inducing when played well, but still defeatable. Whenever I escape vs. a Billy, I think to myself "what a ######### rush, I can't believe I made it out". When I survive against a GF or Michael Myers I think to myself "What am I gonna eat for dinner" although to be fair I'm thinking that in the middle of a game with them as well.
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An endgame build for killer could be fun, but I'm doing quite well with my current builds. I've been playing a lot of Ghostface with Sloppy and Nurses, and the rare amount people who don't heal versus Ghostface have an insane amount of courage and I actually respect them. Other than that I play Oni with ruin and if they don't heal I have my power up so often that I'm basically a race car for the full match.
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waters not actually wet by definition, water may make objects wet as something needs to be dry before it comes wet. but either way survivor is too easy and boring, a decent survivor team will ######### on nearly all killers, hell i solo que and random perk wheel and i still escape way too much, some games i de-pip because they went too fast. balancing around people who are scared to do gens or just stay in a terror radius and cant even lead on a chase shouldnt even be near red, probably green rank at best, i shouldnt get rank 2`s who miss skillchecks, hide 90% of the match around the edge or lead on 5 second chases... not a red rank
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Yeah my bad for lumping you in with the whineys from the BT DS dogma
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this is why you keep track of time/days to find the best time to play each role, i notice patterns when i play killer so i tend to avoid them, sure they may be instant lobbies but i dont wanna play against a bunch of tryhard swf sweats while i just do random killer wheel to have fun
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No it's really not that far from bormal survivors, and its very easy to do for survivors.
Survivors completely ignoring the killer and still completing objectives is not a new thing in the game. Just everyone who spoke about it till now was not heard, but now people are finally actually paying attention.
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My late night games as Purple killer I tend to end up against all red ranks like I said, BUT this is where the bad red ranks come in because I generally get 2-4 kills and maybe one game per night out of 10 they just abuse me, teabag and all escape... I’ll take those odds. Then I close chat and leave for my next game before risking getting ripped on in chat.
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Upvote strictly for the water is wet cliche takedown. It's always markedly false, water is a liquid, it can't by definition get wet.
Other than that, no idea what you both were discussing, carry on.
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Wasn't being literal.
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If you watch Otz consistently you will see that he has an understanding of the game, beyond the majority of the red ranks killers, sometimes he has borderline future predictions.
So for Otz to sweat that hard and win, only considering that the team had gens skills but weak looping skills, it means that there is a problem.
Most of my games in eu on ps4 are similar to that, swf with crazy gen skill and very short games.
Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose but a game like this isn't fun for anybody including the same survivors.
As we often exchange messages, it is clear that a lot of these survivors are not OK with 6-7 Mins game and a 10ins queue.
These problems need to be addressed, because currently the best way to play dbd is gen protection, no chases meta, like true talent does.
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Tbh as killer and even as solo survivor (both red ranks ofc) it's not that uncommon. Understandably it varies from time to time but I'd say my average for games like this would be around 3,5/10.
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just the usual talk which most people dont understand, i just dont get how people think its just to balance a game around people who do nothing most of the game and cant actually play... but in the end what do i know, its not like iv been rank 1 killer and survivor for over 2 years and know all tiles and nearly all totem spawns, could hit ruin and played every killer with every perk. but if 4 people like me end up on a team the killer is lucky to get enough hooks to even get a kill before we all escape...
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Posting a whole new thread as a reply to another one is such an attention grabbing pathetic move.
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Dude i hate playing survivor, some games go so quick i cant believe i waited so long for it, but not only that you nearly de-pip for escaping.. i want longer more interesting games, i love to get chases, i love to see different killers and perks but that gets less and less how this goes on, sure if you play killer and get a full team that cant play and hide it can be fun and longer but when you go against or have good team mates then the game isnt as fun. it should be less about escaping (after all youre entertainment for the entity) and more about what you do in the trial. i just dot get how people are okay with this how it is, i mostly play survivor now compared to 2 years ago but at least i can admit ho easy this game is and how broken it is when people can actually play really well
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Idk, I'll have games with no slowdown perks and I'll get an easy 4K or something with maybe 1/2 gens done, and other games will be more like that Otz video where I just can't do enough to slow down the game. Granted they did have 2 fast toolboxes and Prove Thyself, but I feel like you can't really say "games at this rank are like this" because it varies heavily a lot of the time
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the toolboxes wasnt even the strongest and there as only two, but what youre saying is when you arent playing against the actual good red rank players the games fine, but when you go against people who actually play like the real old red ranks then you cant do anything about it... and thats the problem, the game shouldnt have to rely on survivors being terrible and afraid to do gens etc. for you to do well and have fun...
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just because YOU dont see it everyday doesnt mean it doesnt exist. it exists and its a problem and it needs to be fixed. there is no more ruin so no one can just say you should have had ruin and applied pressure, its in the game and it needs to go away.
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I'm on ps4 and I agree with him for the most part. I play at all different times of day, US East as well as red ranks. I normally play Wraith, Myers, Doctor and Freddy using the Spirit Fury/Enduring/BBQ/4thPerk as my main build but switching it up depending on how I'm feeling. I've been playing since just before Clown was released and in my time I have seen maybe 1 squad I could consider a deathsquad that made me think, I could never have won this game no matter what I did or how I played.
Against SWF's I'll usually have a tough game but whether I win, lose or draw will depend on the map as well as how many mistakes I made during the match and how well they played as a team. A lot of factors go into it but I feel like I always had the chance to win if I do end up losing.
Against your average group of people I will almost always 3k as I normally don't worry about hatch and I'll also just give hatch to people if I curbstomped them and got my BBQ stacks already. I don't camp unless the gates are powered in which case I will camp to secure a kill or down more people if they plan to be altruistic. I do slug if the situation calls for it and I almost always try to secure some kind of 3-gen strat from the beginning if possible.
So from my own experiences, I would say I get an obvious SWF group in maybe 1 of 5 matches in which the game can very well go either way depending on the circumstances. The other 4/5 matches I will normally win unless I mess up hard or they pull off some crazy good plays. The 1in100 deathsquad will curbstomp me as they would almost anyone.
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure some people do have bad luck and face deathsquads more than you're average joe but more often than not people will think they're facing a group of gods when in reality it's just a normal SWF and they played awfully while using awful perks on an awful map.
Just my own opinion from my experiences of the game so far. ^_^
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Oh good lord.
First of all, Otz only applied pressure on the first 2 gens that were side by side and the last gen. Middle game he relied too heavily on Bitter Murmur and only downed survivors out of position/doing nothing. This left the other survivor to go and do all the gens.
Otz isn't dumb. He knows very well that you can start slugging to buy time. He did it before ruin was nerfed. And he didn't even use old ruin all that often.
He also wasted time chainsawing injured survivors when a simple M1 would have sufficed.
And that map is terrible for Billy due to all the obstruction.
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I agree, the game should be fun for both and sitting on gens is not, chasing is fun but sometimes the game ends in 3-5 chases.
As for the pip, at Red ranks you won't pip as a survivor unless the killer manages to give you some people on the hook to ubhook/heal etc
You are absolutely right
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I agree with you overall. But it doesn't change the fact that this is still a possibility, and even regular for some players. You shouldn't balance around the 1% but BHVR is outright refusing to acknowledge this is even possible and actively attempting to convince players otherwise.
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I agree you shouldn't have to rely on the survivors being potato to win, but therein lies the problem. If we make it "fair and balanced," for the best killers vs the best survivors then everyone else will suffer and that makes up like 90+ percent of the player base. BHVR clearly has to worry about appealing to the masses. Also, I am one of the masses lol I am not elite by any stretch.
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