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Do gens go too fast?
I have found this to be a controversial topic, many claim that gen speeds need to be reduced and hook timers increased to give trials a more drawn out and nuanced feel, but to me this sounds ridiculous when killers can get all 4 survivors slugged, hooked, or dead just as fast when abusing add ons or offerings of equal power to toolboxes. I get that there are many killers that lack the proper mobility to apply pressure on certain large maps, but how does this concern gen speed?
Comments
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It is easier to change gens speeds than rework all the maps.
People don't want to wait 2-3 years for all the maps to be fixed.
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Yesn't. On one hand, they go by fast. However, a majority of people on the forums (from what I can tell, correct me if I'm wrong) seem to have the mentality of "If I get into a chase, I need to end it." To me, I usually drop a chase if it takes longer than a minute with no hits.
Some people may not use that strategy, arguing they can heal and such, but that will at least keep them off gens.
I dunno. Feel free to share your opinions. I'm just a Legion main, what do I know?
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That or just change the gen times ONLY on the offending maps.
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That might be a neat way to fix them fast...
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The gens can go too fast, but the average survivor is typically inefficient and takes unnecessary hits. There's no reason to ever not be on a gen unless you're healing, going for a save, or in a chase, but many survivors do nothing for extended stretches. Basically, the gens are fine unless the survivors are actually good, at which point the gens are 100% not ok.
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I recently watched Ohtofu review GF gameplay at high ranks and it really got me thinking...if a killer at high ranks using a low map pressure killer on a huge map can perform this well, is the game really all that far from well balanced?
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To me the speed of gens doesn't seem to be the issue as increasing the time spent on a generator just makes the most boring part of the game even worse, that and good players will still get out leaving only the new or bad players behind who weren't the issue in the first place.
Ideally the right solution is something completely different which comes down to fixing the size of the maps to make generators more realistic to manage and fixing how safe certain maps (Ormond, Rotten Fields, Disturbed Ward) can be either due to a structure or the layout of the map itself which would made chases feel more fair as well.
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That would be nice. Chase times need to be more consistent with patrol times.
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To me, that's usually not a killer performance thing so much as it is a survivor performance thing when it comes to low pressure M1 killers. I didn't watch the entire video you mentioned, but there are numerous loops on Purgation that GF shouldn't be able to get a hit on. That usually comes down to pallet greed or incorrect pathing.
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It turns out many of the loops have an opportunity for GF to mindgame with his crouch.
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Ghost face works because he has his own form of map pressure and can get people through mind games and out positioning better than most killers
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It alwaya goes back to the same thing. If the survivors are good, then prepare to lose in 5 minutes. If they're bad, then sure it's "balanced". But again, why balance around bad players? It just means if the survivor base suddenly decided to actually get good, killers would be screwed.
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Didn't that guy in the Tofu review only get 2 kills? I wouldn't call that a loss or anything, but he also played that GF almost perfect and still didn't pip, so...
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Yes the pipping system is bad in some ways, but he was already r1 right?
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I think he was at least red rank, but yea, it probably didn't hurt him much I. The grand scheme lol, I think that's the whole reason he submitted a review is to see why he only got Brutal
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"Just pressure gens"
(sarcasm)
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I have always heard the statement "Just pressure the gens" but you will realize how ignorant this statement is the more you play the game. I think this comment from Otzdarva's newest video sums this up the best:
"Just pressure the Survivors, but make sure you never slug because they'll have Unbreakable, make sure you're never near a hook when a save happens because they'll have BT, make sure you never try to chase anyone for 60 seconds after they get unhooked because they'll hop in a locker and have DS, and make sure you never make a single mistake at a loop (or try to punish their mistake at a loop) because they'll just Dead Hard to the next loop. And make sure you're pressuring extra hard because they can just bring 4 green toolboxes with BNP and finish Gens in about 30 seconds."
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Hmm I'll make sure to watch this video, but I'm pretty sure Otz thinks that gen speeds can't be decreased correct?
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I personally believe there is just too much survivor momentum in the first 60 seconds of the match. If you don't choose the right gen, it'll pop before you find a single survivor.
It's hard to see when playing survivor, but extremely noticeable when playing high ranks as killer.
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As a newbie killer playing against way better survivors, yes they are way too fast. Some games 2 or 3 pop before I even get my first chase in. But when I play against survivors equal to me I would say the gens are good.
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It would be cool if gens went slower the higher ranks survivors are compared to the killer.
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was just about to reply with this video
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Being completely honest I am done giving compromising ideas as no one seems to like them.
Gen times as a whole need to be looked at even on smaller maps simply due to how fast they can go and how little time the best players of the game can make them have.
An idea that could help is simply removing the progression bonus of great skill check as each one removes 1.6 seconds needed to complete a generator and the average amount of skill check per gen is roughly 5 from what I have seen removing 8 seconds off of each(or 16 if 2 people are working on it).
In fact one of the reasons why old ruin was run was even if people could only get great skill checks old ruin negated the extra speed.
2 people getting 5 great skill checks each turns a normally: 44.44 second generator into a 28.44 second long generator which needless to say is absurdly fast.
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Yes great skill checks should only give as much as healing does.
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no.
I have no issue applying extreme pressure as Clown.
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There's a difference between memes and spam...respect it
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ok i'll stop now i just couldn't resist XD
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Btw to give you an idea of how fast that is:
4 survivor's working on a generator according to the wiki complete it in 28.57.
This means 2 survivors getting 5 great skill checks(28.44 second completion time) each work very slightly faster then having the ENTIRE survivor team working on one generator.
Old ruin even without the penalty on normal skill checks greatly reduced the completion time of generators to the point where If ruin wasn't a hex and only removed bonus completion from great skill checks it still would be a better generator slow down perk them a maxed out thanatophbia for gen speed.
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I don't even consider this topic a debate. It's pretty unanimously agreed upon that they do go too fast. The debate is more about how we want to go about fixing the problem.
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Maybe among the crying few who believe they are entitled to red ranks and 4ks just for buying the game. Have you seen Ohtofu's GF gameplay review? Did gens go too fast in that game?
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"Maybe among the crying few who believe they are entitled to red ranks and 4ks just for buying the game"
That is an extreme minority and a poor rebuttal by people who simply disagree and don't have a counter argument for them.
"Have you seen Ohtofu's GF gameplay review? Did gens go too fast in that game?"
I did and I don't think it has contradicted anything.
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You think gens went too fast in that game, with a pretty bad map for the killer? Despite the results?
Also I made the "crying few" statement because no sensible and logical competitive dbd player thinks gen speeds are the problem. Not to insult you but I have yet to hear a strong argument other than "It's pretty unanimously agreed upon"
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"You think gens went too fast in that game, with a pretty bad map for the killer? Despite the results?"
It's bad killer map in general, not a bad map for Ghostface in particular. Also, it was quite clear those survivors were not doing gens as optimally as possible. A better group would have done them much fast. I don't think that was the best example.
"Also I made the "crying few" statement because no sensible and logical competitive dbd player thinks gen speeds are the problem."
Every single one does actually.
"Gen speeds" does not literally mean just the time they take to complete. For example, I think the 80 seconds to complete a gen is totally fine but I do think gens go too fast. You see what I'm saying? The time for them is fine, but they go too fast because of poor map design limiting the killers potential pressure on survivors.
"Not to insult you but I have yet to hear a strong argument other than "It's pretty unanimously agreed upon"
Inversely I have not heard a strong argument from you about why they are fine.
Many people have posted on here and in videos breaking down the math for time to complete survivor objectives compared to time for the killers to complete theirs.
While not the best type of data, the anecdotal data is from players with massively more hours than most people who play both sides at rank 1. This is a lot more important data than say some anecdotal of low hours at rank 10 for example.
The few people who think gen speeds are fine are people who don't play both sides at rank 1 with a decent amount of hours to fully understand the issue.
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lol what add-ons or offerings equal to tool boxes? Better yet, purple tool boxes with a brand new parts? Also, 4 survivors = 4 opportunities to bring in meta add-ons/offerings vs the killer. Gen speeds definitely need to be reduced. If survivors can pop 3 gens in under 3 min, before I can even get a hit, that’s a sign of an unbalanced game.
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2 mins is a lot of time
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Gens are too fast in high ranks. it's impossible to play against high rank or high rank swf when they rush gens. it felt like game is fav to savs all the way.
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I think there should be two modes “Casual” and “Competitive” Competitive would grant double the blood points.
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Some teams are so good that no amount of pressure you can realistically apply will stop them. Otherwise yes you are right
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No. The Gen speed is fine
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Its a hard one to answer.
For a 4 man SWF yes definitely
For solo survivors (unless top rank ans efficiency) no.
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They go so fast in my games that I give the killer opportunity to kick them so I can ensure max repair points. Having all gens done by the time I'm halfway through my second gen is bad for my emblems.
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They aren't ever going to fix the maps, they have no intention of fixing the maps, I don't understand why people keep assuming this. They've let Haddonfield alone for years now and they've touched Badham twice and it's still absolutely dire for killer, if they had any intention of balancing maps or making them fun to play they would have done so already.
Hell looking at what they've done putting breakable walls, god windows and now god pallets all over the reworked map it's safe to say they're actively trying to make maps worse than before.
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Well if the killer applies enough pressure, then the gens slow down considerably, but to do that, you usually need to run a top tier killer, with the best perks that include perks to slow down the generators.
Assuming the survivor team is competent, it's hard to apply this pressure since, A) Downing survivors with, let's say a trash tier killer takes like 1-2 minutes on a strong map for the survivors, and B) Maps are sometimes too big to patrol and defend generators
If you made it easier for killers to apply pressure, e.g make maps smaller, make some killers stronger, it would solve ALOT of the problems.
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I literally made this comment before Badham got reworked.
It's over a year old.
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If all 4 survivors immediately- and only do gens at all times whenever they can? Yes, yes they do go too fast.
That's not even debatable in my opinion.
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