Killers/Survivors balance
Alright, I'll give it one last shot I guess.
I've been playing this game since it literally came out on Steam. I remember them days, when survivors had a pallet vacuum, jungle gyms had two pallets in it, and there was no bloodlust.
But for that time it was okay. There was no "looping" or "genrush", everyone was afraid of the Killer. I'm not sure if the devs ever played their game in the past year or two, I am sure that they don't play it like every day, and also I'm goddamn sure that no one of the devs plays on rank 1. Although I am a rank 1 killer and rank 1 survivor, and I beg you: please stop balancing the game for the rank 15 or so. You killed ruin, because when it was good, toxic swf couldn't have fun (you know, fun = teabagging at the exit gates and insulting the killer in after-game chat). Now solo survivor queue on red ranks takes kinda 30 minutes, and killers, who obviously don't want to get genrushed, teabagged and insulted, have to play really dirty in order to merely get one pip. So they camp, they slug, etc. I can never see all this situation after ruin "nerf" (let's be honest, you just deleted the perk) as fun. It's fun for the killer to get multiple chases, it's fun for the survivor to loop the killer for 5-10 minutes, but it's not fun when all the gens are done at 3 minutes 37 seconds, and the killer is literally facecamping somebody on a hook, because he wants one kill.
So please, here are the steps you can follow to make the game way more interesting and competitive than it is:
1) Slow down the gen speed. Add like 60 second per gen, this will be just enough.
2) Let the Killer see, which survivors on his lobby are SWF.
3) Add some debuffs for the SWF. Even slower gens, or +1 gen per 1 SWF member, or bigger emblem rewards for the Killer for playing against a SWF.
4) Make "Chase" and "Altruism" to be rewarded more then "Objective", because I already said what real "Objective" of the survivor mains is.
5) To fight facecamp and tunneling, you can use the very bloodpoint system. For example, if the killer is standing in front of the hooked person, and there are no other survivors in 16 meters range, the hooked person starts gaining 1000 bloodpoints in "survival" category every minute of the facecamping process, because, you know, it's hard to "survive" a facecamping Bubba, and the killer loses the same.
Comments
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Ok, this sounds VERY bad for the game.
- We do not need that big of an increase. Maybe 20 seconds, but a full minute? No
- Lobby dodging is bad as it is, don’t add another reason for it to happen.
- Im up for a debuff or bonus for the emblems, but an extra gen per swf sounds too strong. Maybe a decrease in action speed by 15% if you’re in a swf group.
- Altruism for me should count as objective. Your increasing your (and your teams) chance of survival. Chases, sure, more bop decreases the grind.
- No. Just no. Face camping is punishing to killers already. Yes you lose a lot as a survivor but your team gains valuable time. Is it annoying to be camped. Yes. But that’s how some people enjoy the game. Same way some people enjoy constant looping or gen rushing. And tunnelling is fine, unless you literally mean hard focusing a single survivor for no reason.
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Addinng 60 secons to each gen woould just kill this game immediately. Nobody wants to hold M1 even longer than they have to now, and 60 seconds to each gen would make many killers so brokenly overpowered.
Giving swf survivors debuffs is also something I don't think should happen. The only way to balance solo and swf survivors is to give solo survivors all or at least most of the information that swf survivors receive with communication.
Chase and Altruism should not be rewarded more than objective, or you'll just end up with teams of which no one wants to do the objective because they can earn more bloodpoints by just running around the killer and waiting for unhook possibilities.
Also, nerfing survivors objective time will also require a nerf to tunneling and camping. Just decreasing Blood Point gain won't do the trick. Some people only care about kills, not about Bloodpoints, and they'll be encouraged to tunnel and camp more if objective time would be increased since survivors couldn't punish camping killers as much by rushing gens.
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Better alternative: add a second objective, maybe refueling gens using a gas canister which could add about 30 seconds per gen. To compensate, camping and tunneling could be eradicated by making it so hooking a survivor outside of the basement causes the entity to grasp that survivor and transport them to a random distant hook. Maps would probably need to be toned up in power for survivors and need special hooks in distant corners of the map so it's easier for the Entity to transport survivors. Perks and items would be modified to accommodate the addition of a non-generator objective.
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Try holding M1 for that long after you had surgery on your wrist. I have to take frequent breaks when i play this. One of the reasons i picked up killer as well. I cant hold M1 all day or i will need a second surgery. They refuse to implement a toggle. I can understand why. Holding M1 is as simple as some games go for me till i am on the hook. Taking that away would make this game almost on autopilot
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These ideas have been posted before and I agree they would be heading in the right direction but BHVR don't care at least any more it seems.
1) Slow down the gen speed. Add like 60 second per gen, this will be just enough.
>Map size and gen speeds are obviously a huge problem more so for some killers, decent Ruin was a luck plaster to fix this but they have pulled it off and the blood is flowing now. Length of time needs to be decided and balanced
2) Let the Killer see, which survivors on his lobby are SWF.
>No problem with this, let the killer know what they are up against. Comms shouldn't be in the game but it's here and it's fun. Lobby dodging isn't but the other points should fix that with balancing...
3) Add some debuffs for the SWF. Even slower gens, or +1 gen per 1 SWF member, or bigger emblem rewards for the Killer for playing against a SWF.
> Yes, something like buff killer (4swf) or nerf survivors in swf, simples
5) To fight facecamp and tunneling, you can use the very bloodpoint system. For example, if the killer is standing in front of the hooked person, and there are no other survivors in 16 meters range, the hooked person starts gaining 1000 bloodpoints in "survival" category every minute of the facecamping process, because, you know, it's hard to "survive" a facecamping Bubba, and the killer loses the same.
>It is questionable, I had a Huntress camp from high up
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Yes let's make killers unstoppable monstrosities to make the game more fun. Oh, let's also make survivor 75% more boring. Kind regards 🤗
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60 seconds per gen. Seems balanced.
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1. No, gen times might need an increase of 10 seconds at the most, not 60. Id prefer a second objective over increasing gen time.
2. I'd be fine with this as long as they add a penalty for dodging as it would be a mess otherwise. Id prefer a bloodpoint increase vs SWF.
3.Bloodpoint awards up to 150% for a 4man SWF would convince me to play regardless of debuffs.
4. Nah
5. Why would you be awarded Survival points for DYING on the hook, and why would the killer who is camping care? If they are playing toxic purposefully bloodpoints, rank, or 4king means nothing to them let alone if the survivor is getting any. Are you going to respect every pallet just so the survivor doesn't get points for hitting you with it?
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LMAO 60 secs per gen? Stopped reading there. I get what you are trying to do, but you cannot exaggerate to make one of the sides heavily unbalanced. Maybe 15-20 seconds per gen would be more suitable but 60 secs is ridicilous, even with the new ruin change lol.
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I was going to respond to each one of your points, but I see that multiple people already have. If you're managing to retain Rank 1 killer and survivor, I don't see where your complaints are coming from. You obviously are winning more games than you lose in both roles.
I think if you take the time to think of the impact each one of the suggestions you made would actually have on the game over time, you would see the flaws in each suggestion.
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Hmm that certainly sucks, sorry to hear. It's a shame this game doesn't have more a more interesting main objective for survivors, but I can understand that the devs focus has always been in the interaction of survivors and killers.
I do feel like toggle could be an option though. I mean it wouldn't really be any more autopilot than holding M1 in my opinion, just holding one button doesn't require any more effort really.
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The idea of having gas canister has been suggested a lot. And I do unerstand why. The problem I see is that an objective like that would be harder for solo survivors than for swf survivors, since they could always communicate with each other if one survivors finds a gas cannister. I guess revealing the aura of those canisters would help with that, but then how much extra objective time would they really add?
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Like I said: 30 seconds. You want more?
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I think it's called balancing the game to have fun for all. I'm not sure what you enjoy in the game as doing gens is one of them. Maybe post a descriptive reply please?
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Fix maps first! Then look at gen speed after that.
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I think that they should make a hex based perk that has a powerful generator slowdown so the killer has a chance to hunt survivors before gens go off like firecrackers. That would reward successful killers for getting hooks and starting the snowball and punish unsuccessful killers with an empty slowdown if there early game wasn’t fruitful.
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On you last point i disagree. I think survivors should gain bloodpoints if they are being hard camped. You make a good point that this might be how some killers enjoy the game and it may not kill the teams chance of winning but a survivor that is being hard camped literally has no way to play the game. You could argue that even as a killer who is being destroyed by swf that you could still be having fun because you are playing a game you like. A survivor who gets camped and dies their first hook gains nothing. They get to have no fun and even though the team may not suffer they suffer.
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Are gens really that fun though?
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And another "how to kill the game 101 by a biased killer main". Some people just dont understand a thing.
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Why not just set things back to the way they were a year or two ago. Then:
1. Increase the rate at which bloodlust is activated and decrease the time between each bloodlust.
2. Decrease wiggle time and increase chances of escaping the hook on your own.
3. Decrease map size and either increase space between hooks or reduce the number of total hooks by a small amount (3 or 4)
4. Heavily punish face camping and unsafe hooks. Decrease speed for killer the longer they camp a survivor when there is no other survivors within a certain range. This would take effect only if the killer remains in close proximity to the hook for too long and they would receive no indication of the debuff. Unhooks made while the killer is within 5 -10 meters of the hook with line of sight would also add a limited speed debuff to the survivor who made the unhook. This in theory would prevent tunneling in an unsafe unhook situation as the debuffed survivor would be an easier catch. Unhooked survivors should also gain a small speed buff when unhooked.
5. Leave Ruin the way it is. Killers need to learn to pressure gens as it is a fundamental part of playing killer. Ruin now goes hand in hand with this concept.
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It comes to opinions and results, the current results are huge wait times for me as a survivor.
Why? BHVR favours survivors so calls it matchmaking. People who would play killer like myself so not find it fun. People who play survivor have soooo much fun that we all stand up in line waiting for someone, anyone to play killer.
Yes it comes at the expense of survivors having fun but if the wait times are more exciting than doing gens then BHVR have done it and no changes are needed
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