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DS needs to get Ruined (or a major rework)
Because honestly...it SUCKS at doing its job.
Killers are getting negatively affected by it by survivors who know full well they have immunity and who use this perk to taunt and bully.
Solos are hurt by it because they don’t have the assurance of a swf to try to protect them from a genuine tunnel snake.
And it just plain sucks at defending against tunnel snakes in general. On one hand, killers KNOW off the bat they’re safe if no one brings an obsession perk - they’re free to tunnel. On the other hand, tunnelers will purposely try to eat dses so they can continue tunneling.
In summary: it rewards the toxics and is unfairly punitive to those genuinely trying to be a good sport.
Comments
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As long as killer can tunnel as they like actual DS is totally fine.
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As long as they can run gens as they like, Ebony Mori's are fine.
You see how bad that argument is?
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You obviously know how unreasonable you are.
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I'm sorry, are you trying to compare the survivors primary objective,necessary to escape, with a rare offering that killers don't have to use to win as being somehow equal?? You're right, you do sound absolutely ridiculous.
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Killer's objective is to kill, isn't it?
I'm pointing out how dumb that argument is. The game should be fun for both sides and stuff, like ebony's and DS, that make it unfun need to go.
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Ebonys are one of the best tools killers have now to stop gens from flying
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You talking about Tunnel snakes just makes me think about this lot from fallout 3. New killer maybe? lol
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They are extremely unfun. I use them on last hook, personally.
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I get tour point, but your comparison is a joke. You dont need a Mori to win.
That being said, you do need something to survivors for killers that tunnel like there's no tomorrow. Removing DS ruins the fun for not only the for the one tunneled but the rest of the team as well. So while you want it removed, you will need to find some way to give survivors a chance against this playstyle.
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It's also unfun to play against multiple toolboxes and 4-man SWF... so they get the mori. That's my philosophy
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Yay, my reference went noticed! Except the difference, of course, is vault tunnel snakes rule and dbd tunnelers drool.
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All they need to do is make it deactivate when you start repairing or unhooking.
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I can absolutely confirm that I only tunnel when I feel pressured.
Gen rushing and tunneling are the same thing. Both sides efficiently doing their objective. Why punish one but not the other?
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DS was never supposed to "stop tunneling" as tunneling is the fastest way for a killer to lose. It was only ever supposed to extend a chase after being unhooked.
It's true though, it's not doing it's job, and is being abused in worse ways.
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I like the idea of a 10 ft snake as a killer! Silent, strong, swift! But one major downfall, windows..... 😂
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+ jump in a locker
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Noed exists. It punishes survivors for powering the generators.
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True. And you see all the complaints about it, I would be suprised if it doesn't get nerfed soon.
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I have to disagree. Gen rushing is harder to prove since it takes coordination between all 4 survivors. In a SWF, sure, but against solo's,they just spawned separately and hit gens. If you didn't pressure them off, several will get done at once.
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I was just talking about a gang of teens who think they're tough but are ACTUALLY completely harmless, but then I remembered we already have that.
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With the amount of times loops can take up, it is entirely possible 3 gens will pop when playing against Solo's.
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I completely understand. My steam name is a movie reference, but I get 10 times more people making Leeroy Jenkins jokes than actually know it.
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All you see are complaints about DS too. Neither will be touched imo, devs don't need more negative feedback from the community. I feel like they're playing things safe.
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And I'm not denying that. I'm denying it being a gen rush, survivors primary goal is gens. Separated load ins and no gen pressure is to blame for those 3 gens popping. SWFs make an organized effort to get them done is a gen rush. From the killer side, it is there decision on how to go after survivors. Choosing to tunnel is completely on you, just as the SWF chooses and organizes a gen rush.
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I have to commit to chase someone, else I don't ever get any hooks and I lose.
When I do commit, I lose those gens. It is inevitable. With the amount of loops that are totally safe, and the amount of pallets, it will take me more than 80 seconds to catch a half-decent Survivor.
As it stands, if I play a low tier Killer, I will not win if the Survivors and I both play perfectly. I have to rely on their mistakes and I cannot make any mistakes.
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DS is fine as it is. Both sides have good and bad perks. Just role with it.
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I'd be fine if it simply deactivated during end game, and didn't apply to grabs.
Then it would actually be anti tunnel, and not something people could use to parade themselves around in front of the killer know there's dick all they can do about it.
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Here is my change I always mention, because you can lose the survivor and find them again 30 seconds later and DS is still active, and they use it for purposes other than tunneling
DS:
De-activates when going on a generator or entering a locker
Lasts for 20/25/30 seconds
Time slows down 50% when in a chase
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Name one killer perk combination as strong as dead hard, adrenaline, ds, and unbreakable. That combo has no counter. It allows for strong looping, multiple mistakes, strong end game, and defense against slugging.
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You can’t remove DS now.
Ever seen how hard a killer tunnels once they know a survivor doesn’t have DS? Changing DS would result in free tunneling and a tunneling epidemic of epic proportions.
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The original purpose was to make OoO live longer.
But the game has gone a long way and Devs realized that making perks that encourage/help in plays that make the game unfun is not a good thing.
Right now tunneling is one of the bigger issues and surviviors have chosen DS as a tool for that.
So basically surviviors decided that they want "ANTI TUNNELING" perk instead of "Pissing off the killer" perk
The worst thing about current DS is that it has 3 purposes, 1. Anti tunneling, 2. Pissing off the killer, 3. protection while doing objectives. And if you run to the gen, do it in killers face and then go into a locker, you can do 3 of these things at once. 1 perk shouldnt have such power.
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DS is fine. Seriously, all this whining about DS is sad. In the last 8 matches, I have come across 17 DS survivors. I was hit with it one time at the end of the game. I've 4k'ed in 5 of the matches. 3k'ed in the other 3.
If you are getting swarmed with DS, maybe you should think about the tunneling. DS is all but an anti-tunnel perk. It is intended to annoy killers who tunnel. It is working as intended.
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Oh yea thanks
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Killers always say that survivors have full immunity to being killed, but i think they forget that DS requires you to hit a skillcheck. Id say when im spectating survivors, every one in five or six will miss the skillcheck. Its a small chance, but its there. I think killers only notice when they do hit it. Ive had many killer games where id see after game survivors (that i basically tunneled lol) had ds and missed.
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Yes by being a tunnel monster,
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Look at the triple tunnel thread, how is this an anti-tunnel perk?
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It can bite the window and fling itself over it.
Lol that is tunneling you entitled Killer main. You're supposed to show the Survivors the way out and wish them good luck in their next trial. It's in the Survivor rulebook. You really think that you're allowed to HOOK the Survivors?
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Yes, I'm aware of that. That is also a very rare occasion. I've been playing killer for two years. The new version of DS has cost me maybe a handful of games since the change. The old DS cost me scores of games due to getting DS'd four times before the first hook. More times than now, DS hits tunneling killers more than anyone else. The occasional victim is like in the video above. You can point to several perks that screw over players like that though. How NOED that costs the survivor who cleansed 4 totems by himself, but because of circumstances beyond his control, he is the one who dies, not the others who did nothing.
There are lots of perks we can say create situations like this, as in a no win scenario. That does not betray the fact that DS's most effective use is as an anti-tunnel perk. How many times do killers tell survivors on this forum that if they don't like tunneling, run DS, that is what it is there for. Irony....
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There is nothing wrong with ds as it prevents killers from tunneling and it definitely does not have any effect on toxicity. If you want to be annoyed with a perks that does promote survivor toxicity then it would be object of obsession and head on.
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If we all agree that DS is an anti tunnel perk, then there would be no problem if it disabled itself when the survivior starts completing objectives? Unhooking, healing, repairing, etc.
You are not getting tinneled as a survivior if you are doing these things.
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Okay then what happens if you play against a stealth killer with nurses or one that just follows you without you noticing to a gen? The perk is situational. I play as killer too, but I don't ever like going after the survivor I just hooked, unless they are the next survivor I find I'll just down them and look for other survivors while waiting for ds to deactivate or it's been a solid minute without finding other survivors. Point is, if you find the survivor that you hooked, then chances are the person that unhooked them is close by, if not healing them or working on a gen next to them. It's only like a minute, if you just anticipate that every survivor has DS, then you'll never get stunned by it.
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The thing about stealth killers is that they have stealth, you know. If you let killer follow you all the way to the generator AND you touch the gen before you notice the killer, then sorry, you got outplayed.
The solution is simple: dont touch the gen unless you are sure you are safe. If you have DS then you have to think about how you are using it (LIKE WITH EVERY OTHER PERK) and not treat it like some sort of immunity shield you can mindlessly use.
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I personally find Borrowed Time more irritating. But as a survivor, I don't run either.
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Yea BT always screws me over when I try to camp. Lately I put on Insidious and suddenly camping is a lot easier :)
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first of all, if a teammate takes you off the hook right infront of me without borrowed time, and you dont have DS. You're going straight back to the hook....If it helps towards a kill/betters my score and will slow down gens as a result I don't care if you cry tunnel or not, because its not my problem your teammates suck.
secondly, If bvhr would stop spitting on killers I'd feel sympathy towards "fixing DS". If anything it needs a big fat nerf, and as you know anything that they "fix" is actually just a nerf (spirit, nurse, legion as a few examples) So I'd be careful what you wish for
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How was the Doctor fix a nerf?
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Same question tbh. I really like him now and i'm becoming a doc main myself :F he might not have the insane map pressure but his shock is just great for chases(loops i mean),and static blast is just great as a tracking tool.
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Totaly agree, some survivor perks needs same care like Ruin got 😊 (aka destroyed)
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"As long as ebonys are, keys will be fine." Same mentality :D But you do not have unlimited moris on the other hand survivors have unlimited chance to do gen rush without any offering. What will happen when moris are consumed or what if you face with really good survivors than you can not even hook some of them... Also there are keys that survivors can bring. DS is perfectly OK. Because even tunnelers consume DS knowingly if the survivor is good he can still make another chase and earn time and also waste the killer's time. I all the time made the chases longer with DS if the killer tunnels me. So I never play without DS. It just gave me another chance if I am being tunneled hardly.
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I'd agree with that, if DS was not a one time use perk. Part of the problem is the survivor moves away from the hook for 3 seconds and starts healing, but the killer already returned to hook and followed the blood trail and tunnels anyways. Thus your version of DS disengages when self healing starts, but they are tunneles anyway.
The only thing DS needs is to deactivate within lockers or when gates are opened. Otherwise it is absolutely fine and tunneling killers can whine all they want.
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