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Simple nerfs to Survivors' meta perks
DECISIVE STRIKE
- Hooking a different Survivor reduces the remainder of DS timer by 20 seconds.
- DS deactivates when get interrupted (from a gen for instance so Survivors Will be less cocky) or when grabbed from a locker.
BORROWED TIME
- Introduce the Critical Health State which is applied if the Survivor under the Endurance effect from Borrowed Time is hit
- In the Critical State Survivors have 20 seconds to heal themselves. The timer expires in eaxtly the same conditions the Deep Wound timer does
- Survivors will have to find other Survivors to get healing or heal themselves with a med kit, Self Care or Inner Strength
- These changes should happen to make Survivors use BT effect only if it is neccesary
DEAD HARD
- Reduce the speed boost.
Comments
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No.
DS is already easy to work around. Survivor doing a gen in your face? Hit them instead of grab. Or better yet - go after the unhooker!
BT doesn't expire while in a chase to encourage killers not to tunnel once BT proc'd.
How does anyone complain about DH on dedicated servers?? It's almost unusable. IF a survivor gets it to proc then just bait it ffs.
If you're struggling with basic tactics like not tunnelling and camping then you just need to play more. The game shouldn't be brought down to new players level.
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Ds is kind of meh. Sure it works sometimes but not a lot.
Borrowed times deep wounds will go down if the person is not sprinting or mending.
Dead hard is not too bad once you know they have it just bait it.
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The DS and BT changes seem reasonable but DH nerf is uncalled for. Do you want to nerf SB too?
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DS should just deactivate once you interact with something, it's no longer tunneling if you're sitting there trolling the killer healing right at the hook (or had time to go back to a generator and start repairing or whatever) easy fix. Borrowed Time only lasts 15 seconds and only triggers if they're in your terror radius iirc.
Dead hard is fine, it's like a sprint burst that buys you a hit but only works when you're injured. Risky especially on dedicated servers and plenty of killers will bait it out. Honestly it's the decisive strike + unbreakable that sucks ass because you can't pick them up but you can't slug them either, toss in adrenaline and it's like trying to kill a cat with extra lives ffs.
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no ######### all of these perks are counterable but you decide to complain and ask for nerfs instead of adapting.
DS - stop tunneling
BT - stop tunneling
DH - bait it
here again we see why killers are the whiny part of this community..
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I think you misunderstand what "quality of life" is supposed to mean.
These are all just flat out nerfs.
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Decisive Strike change is good.
The Critical State thing sounds awful. What if the guy who unhooked you was the only other Survivor left, and you got hit but then he went down? You would literally have to sprint in circles to keep the timer going and try to go back and unhook him just to heal you just to avoid dying.
I can understand the Dead Hard nerf- lots of people are responding with "just bait it" but the most effective use of DH is to use it for distance to reach a pallet or window that otherwise you wouldn't reach before the killer got you. You can't "just bait it" if the person isn't using it to dodge hits at all. So wanting a Dead Hard that's less good for moving towards a pallet would probably be a decent change, but I feel like it would need something to compensate so that the hit-dodging aspect is more effective or more rewarding.
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Do you actually play Killers often?
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Survivor main not understanding the problems of those perks..
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DS is far too prevalent, it's in most of my red rank matches. That alone is grounds for a nerf, apparently.
How about this, DS resets on another Survivor being hooked.
As for BT, the only time I ever see BT used is to unhook in the Killer's face as he is walking away. He is then put in a lose-lose, chase the unhooker and have a 45 second chase, lose 2 gens. Chase the unhooked guy, wait out BT, pick him up, get DS'd.
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These arent QoL changes, these are nerfs.
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Survivor doing a gen in your face? Hit them instead of grab. Or better yet - go after the unhooker!
What?
Survivior doing a gen in your face? Go after the unhooker!
Do you see what I see here?
I thought killer was supposed to stop surviviors from doing gens, not chase around surviviors that are doimg nothing and let the rest repair all they want... But maybe Im playing it wrong...
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Lool, this is so stupid..
These Survivors..
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Just so you know, people are more likely to take you and your ideas seriously if you can engage in constructive discussion with those that disagree with you, instead of just dismissing them as stupid survivor mains who don't know what they're talking about.
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I don't Like how People use Dead Hard for distance to abuse loops.
Sprint Burst is ok, it forces to slowly walk.
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Exactly this, @Aztreonam78 try telling them why they should believe you and address common arguements from your opposing side. 😁
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With Borrowed - maybe than Survivors ic Critical State should have "recover" and "heal" options both.
Heal when they have medkits, perks or team mates.
And recover for 32 seconds Like from Dying State If they have nothing.
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Meh, It is not worthful to discuss with people not playing both sides.
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yes, i do. half killer half survivor. i have no issue with these perks and don't understand why some people do, they're all counterable.
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BT needs no nerf.
First of all if a survivor unhooks another survivor right in front of you GO AFTER THE UNHOOKER. After all they are the one with the BT not the hooked person. If you hate BT it only makes sense to go after the person who has the perk.
Secondly it's not the hooked survivors fault that their teammate is an idiot and wants to unhook them right in front of the you so why punish the person who got unhooked? GO AFTER THE UNHOOKER. They are your problem!!!
Now maybe you are a camping, tunneling toxic killer in which case BT is working exactly as it should.
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Killer main not understanding the problem with his "quality of life" suggestions
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Yeah, I bet you play both sides buddy
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Actually I play both sides (though more killer these days since my friends are getting a bit burned out). What you seem to not understand is the reason those perks exist in the first place. They were designed to stop/punish killers that tunnel/camp. If you can come up with a *fair* solution that actually helps with those issues I will be happy to listen. Until then its probably best to leave it alone...
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I see that you quoted me twice? And edited the 1st quote to use as the second?
Do you understand that youre actually playing with real people? And not with AI bots? Do you understand that getting camped and tunneled aren't fun for anyone? All the perks listed have work arounds. And they have fairly specific and limited conditions to trigger. If youre not camping or tunneling they wont even come into effect!
No matter what changes are suggested and implemented it will result in one of two things.
- The perks will be changed and survivors will find the most effective way to use them. People will complain. And we're back to square one with nothing changing.
- The perk will be dead and nobody will use them. If theres no way to combat camping and tunneling then nobody will play.
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Why is Dead Hard in the center for nerfs now? Bait it.
DS needs a nerf. BT needs to NOT work when the killer doesn't even have a chance to walk away. Give it a 10 second timer after somebody is hooked before it activates and remove the TR requirement.
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DS i simply want the stun to be nerfed 5 sec to 4 sec.
BT i think its fine, it is really OP but I feel like nerf will make useless.
DH, it should not be able to dodge traps (killer attack is fine)
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The only change I think that would actually change how BT is used (for the better) is to make it so that if the killer hits the survivor with the Endurance buff that its no longer a "Safe Unhook". This would make survivors use it for its actual purpose as they would get no points boost for farming their teammates with it.
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In red ranks, DS isn't used as anti tunneling, it's used as 60 seconds of protection to get a gen done. BT is just a free escape when used in the end game.
I like OPs suggestion about DS. If you're doing an objective while DS is active, then you're obviously not being tunneled, and DS's timer should drain. I don't have an idea personally for BT, I just don't like the free escape it gives. DH. . . eh, I don't have much of an issue with it. When done right, yeah, it extends a chase, but most times, they waste a pallet. I'll rotate off when that happens, come back later.
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Its often in the last 20 seconds or so of DS that you get picked up. Might as well just ask for it to be removed once you hook another survivor. This would be a large benefit to campers.
As for BT awful. I use Inner Strength. Theres no guarantee that perk will be active when I need it. 20 seconds is not enough time to find a totem and destroy it and then heal in a locker. Nor is it enough time to find another survivor to heal you.
DH is the only one there that has potential. Removing the speed burst would stop it from being a free pallet/vault.
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-.-
You obvious didn't play at release.
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I know because I play both sides, and I get tunneled and camped.
BUT the moment you start doing objectives, you CANT expect the killer to not go for you.
NOT tunneling as a killer means LETTING SURVIVIOR DO WHAT HE WANTS. And you can do that as a killer, but not if a sirviviorbstarts working on a generator. Killer CANT ignore a survivior working on a generator.
So, if you dont want to be tunneled, RUN AWAY after getting rescued, dont to a gen 5 meters from the hook, dont heal under hook, dont hide in a bush 5 meters from the hook. Just. Run. Away. After you are sure that killer has lost you, start healing, repairing whatever.
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If a survivor is being unhooked in your face - you should be able to get a free hit in during it. That makes both injured and basically a hook trade (unless youre actively trying to tunnel one person out of the game).
The only thing I can see potentially working would be to have the DS timer pause if slugged. This would stop the killer downing the unhooked and then going for the unhooker to void DS (in your situation if I've read that right). Only then would it make sense to not let the survivor do gens with DS (would still need to let them do altruistic actions/cleanse totems though)
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So you don't like how people are using dead hard to their advantage? Odd.
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Tbh, DS and BT complaints mostly seem to stem from survivors using them offensively from what I've seen.
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No, DS isn't supposed to work in a way that killers want it to.
BT isn't supposed to work in a way that killers want it to.
DH isn't supposed to work in a way that killers want it to.
Just so you can understand the purpose of perks. Survivor perks give them an advantage to help them survive, all those perks activate under some kind of pressure from the killer at first.
Killer perks help them kill survivors, apply pressure to survivors or limit their chance to escape. All killer perks work most effectively against bad survivor plays, with no penalty at all to the killer.
Also, the 3 perks are all highly counterable by the killer themselves. Learn how, instead of making up really bad ways to nerf them
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I play both sides and have reached red ranks with both(dosent matter to me but that’s what this community needs to see or they won’t bother reading anyway right?)
BT needs no nerf. Period. It is one of the most balanced perks where even if u aren’t camping or tunneling, it is annoying but it’s just for a safe hook rescue. In fact maybe it’s just the fact that I usually play ghostface, but it isn’t an issue for me. Even then, my experience with BT is that it procs on 2 occasions:
killer is camping or tunneling(which ironically dosent help because then unhooked gets grabbed but wtv)
or
killer is patrolling or coming back to the hook, where he may tunnel
in either situation, I feel it’s fine. As a survivor even if the killer dosent down you, it wastes you or your teammates’ time. In fact in certain cases I resent it because it wastes my adrenaline. As a killer you also will be sure that unless they are in a chase, they have to mend and it’s pressure.
DS is smt that should’ve been fixed long ago. I understand why it was made and how it’s necessary, however it is a pain for both survivors and killers to have to wait 60 seconds slugging or to be slugged for 60 seconds. Most of the time I just choose to eat the DS because I’m confident, but it is painful to only have gotten one hook and to get DSed at 56 second mark even though I’ve never even seen them before that point. I feel that a better fix would be
- get rid of allowing them just a 60 second timer
- making it so that if I hook or chase another survivor for let’s say 20 seconds it goes away
- make the timer go down faster when outside of let’s say double the killers terror radius(since that’s usually linked to speed and ability to down) this makes it fair so that a killer that’s not even considering tunneling and the survivor just goes down at the last 10 seconds to help a teammate
for those who say DS is perfect, I don’t know about that. It’s in a good spot for survivors but a pain for killers. Ppl complained about ruin but DS is the equivalent of that for survivors. Also please the skill check argument does not work. Anyone who’s played even to yellow ranks will be able to hit that skill check most of the time. For those saying it’s has counter play because you can dribble’ then it’s the same as how ruin has counter play, just hit skill checks.
Now for DH. Argh. I used to love this perk. But with dedicated servers and killers always baiting, I think I’d rather proxy off the time they bait and have an extra perk(like resilience) than DH. Nerfing it now is gonna cause an uproar because it’s essentially making an already situational perk not only not used for said situation, but used in the Low skill denominator method called ‘DH for distance’
overall these are my thoughts, if you disagree please don’t just say the same few arguments which have already been addressed and actually find a proper way to fix this. Thank you
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No. How easy is it for a camper or insta down killer to down the rescuer, hook them and then immediately go for the unhooked surv?
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But catching the rescuer does not disable DS!
You can catch the rescuer, hook him, go patrol nearby gen and find the guy with DS workimg on it, you try to catch him, but he sprints into a locker. Quality gameplay.
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No.
- Just eat the DS stun.
- I've never had issues with BT
- DH is a weak perk.
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Ikr? Leave DH alone.
DS definitely needs tweaks and I love your suggestion for BT. It really irritates me when I hook someone then they immediately farm with BT
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Then dont do unsafe unhooks. Or use BT if you cant
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BHVR Has never CONFIRMED they designed DS to be designed around Anti tunneling the community labled it that way. Nerf makes no sense
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Thats literally what the last few rounds of killer nerfs have been for though, to center the game around new players.....
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No, how about you dont camp lol. If the killer is camping... you're going to have to farm them. D strike allows the person on hook to have control over that situation without having to rely so much on your team mates bringing in bt or taking the hit.
Going for an easy down by camping/tunneling deserves risk.
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I swear every day I see something about nerfing or removing survivor perks,but I rarely see anything related to killers except for maybe NOED. I mean it's literally every day multiple times a day. Its usually the same or very similar ideas as well. People could at least check and see if the topic is already up so we could get more interesting topics.
I'm new to the forums and not trying being mean at all. I survivor main and use none of these anyway. Literally none. I personally hate being instantly downed by anything. But if the majority enjoys it and it helps with balance,I deal with it and try to get better.
Not hating on OP at all. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. I don't run any of these perks and win pretty often. Or I get outplayed and die lol.
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Its not always camping, you know? If I see scratchmarks going towards the hook, then I will follow them and down the rescuer. And this is not camping, this is rescuer misplaying. If the rescuer is able to unhook someone last second, and he has no BT, then I will down the unhooked too, because there is no one else to go for.
So its not always killer being ToXiC, camping and tunneling, sometimes its just surviviors playing bad and making an easy target from themselves or whats worse, from their teammates too.
I dont like DS not because its anti tunneling, but because person with DS can get rescued, go away, get healed, do 1/3rd of a generator, get caught in a bear trap, then hide in a locker and STILL have DS active.
DS should protect you from tunneling killers, not give you 60 seconds of immunity during which you can do gens, unhook other people, open exit gates etc.
And thats because killer CANNOT ignore someone doing objectives he is supposed to protect, doesnt matter if recently inhooked or not. Besides, if you feel safe enough to do gens, then it means you are not being tunneled, if you felt tunneled you would be running away or hiding.
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DH is impossible to bait If Survivors use it for distance, not for dodge.
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I play since june 2016. Then I played maybe for half of the year only as Survivors bcs Killers were..
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Sure, they're counterable, but you sacrifice too much valuable time when you play as though everyone has those perks. I've legit had one chase happen after unhooking someone and then I found the person I unhooked. Guess what? They were working on a gen and I downed them after a long chase. Guess what? They still had DS from earlier, so the chase went from thirty seconds to at least a minute even though I didn't tunnel. 80 seconds is most of a generators time. With BT you either let them go or chase them, but I've had the unhooked person take a hit for the unhooker. That means you have three more health states to deal with between the two, and keep in mind that the surv gets a sprint burst after each hit while killer stands there hardly moving. (Takes a lot of valuable time) I think DH is fine compared to the other two. DH is annoying especially when they dash to a pallet where you otherwise would've gotten a hit. It too can extend a chase's time to double what it would be, just less often. The point being made here is time: Killers can often have a down by the time two to three gets are on in the higher ranks. It could be one in the lower ranks. Either way the math doesn't add up. Four people, one person in chase, hook them, someone saves. That's still two gens being worked on. Now you've gotta deal with either chase another full health state survivor while the unhooked gets on a gen, or you down the unhooked person and get them back on hook. The latter forces you to deal with BT or DS, which can stack, effectively tripling a chase time. (The other option is the person DC's because you tunneled and thus you don't pip and lose BP) Where's everyone else? On the remaining 3 gens. You, as a killer, need to make it a 3v1 ASAP. This is because four survivors can be doing too much at once. A 3v1 is deal able, and effectively cuts their gen progress in half. (Hooked person and unhooker are two of three instead of two of four. So one on gen instead of two.) This is why "tunneling" is understandable for the first person, especially if they were easy prey.
Side note: That idea for DS turning off once you interact with something (I say with a gen or healing) would make sense. The point is to counter tunneling and I'd say that when you get on a gen or are healing, you probably have someone else taking the heat and it's fulfilled its purpose. If someone wants to save it, they sacrifice progress in return. This may lead to people taking hits for others just to DS, however.
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Agreed. If you're running distressing with add on for larger terror radius from Doc it's ridiculous, and if you use stealth killers it's ridiculous. Make it more consistent.
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