Can you be more consistent with you consistency?
You always say how it is important to provide survivors with information, if they are affected by hex perk, status effect, even somehow showing other survivor's rbt timer. Then there are obsession "tentacles", not sure how the others know killer is obsessed with a certain survivor as soon as the game starts, but w/e. The killer's objective is to prevent survivors from escaping. How is he supposed to do that if survivor find a dull or a skeleton key in a chest? Don't you think it would be fare to put a key icon next to survivors name when escape via the hatch is possible due to that survivor possessing a key? So that killer is aware of it and can prevent it from happening - basically giving him information which is necessary to complete the objective. Or that kind of stuff only applies to survivor?
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Right now closing the hatch gives the killer a better chance. Knowing someone has a key why then close it? It could just prolong the game for a long time until the survivor attempts gens which could be 1 or 5.
The whole idea of the original hatch and now with the egc is to end the game.
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They whole idea behind playing killer is to kill survivors before egc in the first place. And how is egc and closing the hatch relevant to my post?
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Well since a key can never be taken out the game and any one can pick it up once the one using it is dead then the other survivors has a chance to be the person whom you reference so its extremely relevant.
So this information will tell you who you need to tunnel out the game and hopefully kill the others before the hatch can spawn. If ypu fail there is a chance you will need to do that the next one who holds it and so on until it comes down to just two left. Then it's as my post stated.
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First key can be removed from the game. Second a key cannot be picked up if weaved ring or white ward is used. Thirdly I still have no idea what you are talking about, you're not making any sense. And I never said anything about any scenario when the hatch hasn't spawned yet.
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You know what, I like this idea. Then I know who to tunnel, and when. It breaks my heart when the guy with the key I was tunneling - doesn't have the key anymore when I put them on hook because they gave it to someone else.
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First Yes if it's hit 10 times which lets be honest has little chance of happening and players tend not to use the key for other purposes.
Secondly its very rare to see these add-ons when aomeone brings in a key and you specifically mentioned finding one in a chest as per your OP.
I am responding as your post is confusing. Why do you need this Info? What does it add to the game? The only logical reason I can see is to be able to tell so you can tunnel them out the game quicker.
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It lets you know that when the hatch spawns there's a survivor in the game who can open it with a key
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I’d be down for giving more information to the Killer. It’d also make bringing a key a huge risk because you’re putting a big target on your back.
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Thank you for the clarification on how it would exactly work.
I am not sure if it's something that adds anything to the game which would be beneficial to killer apart from putting more pressure on them to protect both gens and find the hatch.
If the hatch spawns and the key icon pops up the survivor is also at a high risk of being camped which I don't think is something the devs wish to promote.
For keys I would prefer then to actually be a lot more rare with some overall changes.
Maybe one in 15-20 bloodwebs for pink ones and they are the only ones which allow more than one to escape through it and can no longer spawn in chests.
Purple ones can be found in chests and are more common but they only allow one to escape and the time for its other uses is increased to 30s like the pink one.
Once a key is used if the killer then closes the hatch it cannot be reopened by another one for 60s.
I think making pink items themselves be more rare and that they can never be found within a game would solve the biggest issues. I know doing the plunderes challenge in the past I found 3 pink keys out of 6 chests I opened.
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So, you’re perfectly ok with survivors being given information such as hex totems, who the obsession is and when they’re being chased, and various other given information? But you’re opposing a killer knowing who has a Key in the game 😂 you know what that’s called?
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Nice to see you instantly make an assumption as I reply with my actual thoughts on thr topic at hand. You know what that's called? It's always better never to jump to conclusions regarding how someone thinks.
I have spoken up many times about how I think the info on the hud actually ruins the not knowing experience and wish it wasn't there. It was added due to trying to close the swf/solo gap but imo unsuccessfully as it just buffed them also hence I don't think it adds anything to the game.
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Let’s backtrack then, per your post here’s your view:
“The only logical reason I can see is to be able to tell so you can tunnel them out the game quicker.”
Your words, not mine. I made an assumption based on the information you gave. That being a one-sided view on why Killers do not deserve any handed to information. Simply adding a key to a survivor icon is not detrimental to the survivors as much as the information given to survivors is against killers.
You don’t want assumptions made then don’t assume the “only logical” reason to wanting this information is to tunnel.
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That is because the point of the mechanic wasn't clear as when I made that post it hadn't been stated that it would ONLY show once the hatch had spawned.
It is logical to think that wanting that info from the start since it was open to interpretation would be used for tunelling the survivor with the key. What other reason would you say it would be useful for?
Where did i say killers didn't deserve information at all handed to them? you are expanding it making more assumptions as I was speaking solely on this one topic. The fact you took bias from that technically says more about your own.
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I have no bias. I’m an open-minded individual that would rather have a counter to a counter to a counter for gameplay.
You assumed the only reason for having this information was for tunneling. You never stated you opposed the information that survivors are handed. Yes, I made the assumption, a logical one at that.
Giving the killer this information is not solely promoting tunneling. It allows the killer to keep track of who brought a key. When I see a survivor with a key, I don’t avoid and target only that survivor. But it’s very hard to keep track of who has a key, especially when the team might coordinate clothing and characters. Giving this information let’s a killer know if the key is still active in play or if it’s swapped hands. That is only fair. It makes no sense from a logical standpoint that survivors can communicate cross-map without a communication device yet are given a plethora of information to locate a killer, chests, totems, exits, and each other.
Giving a killer information to keep track of where a key is isn’t simply encouraging tunneling, if anything it would actually allow the killer to focus elsewhere since they know where/who has the key. You think on the negative of this information when it can have a positive impact. Survivors with keys are tunneled because a killer cannot track the key so the easiest way to do so is to get rid of the person with it, via tunneling.
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Your posting on this matter says otherwise as you instantly did the but what about the info the other side has and tried to insinuate bias was in play.
Not really as going by what most people say in key discussions they actively tunnel already when they see a survivor has one. Yes it's an assumption but its based on what has been discussed in the past so not a baseless one.
Again going by past discussions while some may use it as you state and it could be positive for them the others well they will simply know who to target. Just look at one of the first responses on this post about how a player could do just that. Giving this information then can promote a playstyle the devs actively want to discourage and why I personally don't think as an addition to the game it would be a good one.
It's the same for certain perks like myc or lullaby. Already perks which are highly situational and made worse by a notification.
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I'm killer main and as soon as I know someone has a key I make sure they're dead before hatch spawns. I'm all for nerfing survivors but this doesn't seem fair and basically hard counters keys. Personally I like the game-changing mori/key dynamic.
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Not really, I’m just saying it’s unfair for one side to have an informational advantage of the other.
Just because one person says they’ll do one thing doesn’t mean everyone will. Sure, low-skill Killer players might use the information to tunnel, but it already happens despite not having the information. More intermediate - advanced killers will be able to formulate strategies around knowing who has the key in their possession - this can also play both ways as survivors can use it to mind-game a killer.
Explain to me, if this would encourage bad play-style, then how is it fair that survivors (regardless of SWF) are given the knowledge of Hex Totems? A literal notification that informs them there is a Hex. How is it fair that survivors know who the obsession is and when they’re being chased? Survivors also have information about add-ons killers bring. When a survivor is hit with a certain perk a huge notification pops up informing them. How is fair? Yes, they do this for the solo player, but this is abused in strategy by SWF. I do not care, because I use it when I play survivor, but simply asking for information on keeping track of a key holder isn’t much in comparison. Anyone who brings a key can equip themselves with counter perks.
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From my experience in these forums, announcing what you main nearly nullifies your argument as soon as you oppose your main side.
This isn’t a “hard” counter towards keys. Survivors have plenty of “hard” counters to killer tactics/perks. Allowing a killer the information to know who has a key and if it’s been swapped is minor in comparison.
As mentioned above, survivors can literally equip themselves with appropriate perks if they fear tunneling. Most keyholders do that anyways. The game needs to stop catering only to one-side and start implementing other informational assistance towards killers, not just in the form of perks, speed boosts, etc. A key is a huge, huge advantage to a strong team or even a mediocre team against a mediocre killer. Bringing a key, literally, promotes tunneling because it’s hard for killers to keep track of that person. This might promote a better strategic gameplay for killers so they can focus on overall play rather than eliminating that one survivor first.
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It will also increase risk of carrying a key so they don’t need to nerf keys.
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Primarily because for one reason notification of a hex was not only to close the gap between solo and swf but to also get survivors to look for totems taking them off gens and slowing the game down. It has an effect which can not only aid the survivor but also the killer in essense. It's a mechanic which doesn't make it instantly unfun for one side as you can choose not to bring in a hex perk after all. It's understandable why then but that doesn't mean I have to like being shown it. I still believe after a set rank these should have been removed from play as you should learn to know things rather than be held by the hand and shown.
Take NOED as a prime example. Before we had the moments where you may not have noticed it was a one hit down and were left to wonder. For myself this made it more fun and you tried to be more alert instead of just well knowing.
The obsession well unless its yourself who is it I really don't see the need for others to know. It makes rancor weaker on swf for one as they can communicate when they see the likes of rancor.
I touched on a couple of perks which I think shouldn't have notification already and there are more.
Equipping perks like DS or BT shouldn't be a given to not be tunelled and they need looked at themselves for the ways they can be abused. We should be asking for changes to gameplay which makes for less unfun games not asking for things that can create more.
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Okay, as killer, as soon as you know a person has a key why would you not kill them? There's literally no good reason not to. Especially if they're SWF, they can end the game as soon as hatch spawns. That's why they make the keys look so discrete- to work they need to be a stealth play. And honestly, there's lots of ways killers need to be buffed but a change like this wouldn't really help in the scheme of things. It would just give survs another reason to ask for a mori nerf.
The issue with killers rn isn't lack of information. There are perk combos to know where survivors are, what generators are being worked on, how many people are working on each generator. That's really all you need unless BHVR wants to actively promote tunneling. The issue is the game is kind of stacked against them- if survivors don't make mistakes, killer loses. And now that it's easier to genrush the survivors have more leeway for mistakes. But giving info about keys isn't gonna fix that, it's just gonna put a target on whoever has the key.
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Here we go, a discussion I like.
Makes sense. I really do wish once you get to a certain rank that it almost becomes similar to FPS hardcore. Limited visibility. I just feel the game is too geared towards catering to convenience. My opinion though. I’m fine with or without the information at hand or in discussion now.
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There’s already a target on every key holder. Also, gen rushes isn’t worse off than it already was. I’ve literally applied so much pressure in games that I’ve got 3+ hooks before a single gen is done. Then I get large maps where I get 1 hook and 2 gens are done but I still beat the game. PWYF is an amazing perk.
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I honestly thought it would be a lot worse without ruin, although it's definitely different. I usually at least 3k against red rank solo q but where it seems to really hurt is red rank swf. Haven't had a good game against a coordinated team in a while.
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Telling the killer there is a key would be fine. As long as it doesn't say who has it. Kinda like they do with hexes on the side of the screen. You know the killer has ruin but not where.
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It’s easier to pin a mediocre team. The coordinated SWF are the issue because they spread the generators out very well. Add in a good looper that takes you away from repairing gens and Gg to the killer lol. But the game isn’t as bad or broke as people complain about.
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You know the killer has ruin. Totem spawns are about as hidden as a tree in a desert. It’s not the fact you aren’t given a location, it’s the fact you’re given information that there is an active hex. Same with they key, you don’t need a location but who has it. Same concept. Nothing is locating the holder, it’s simply informing the killer a key is still in play and this survivor has it.
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The issue is killers will tunnel. Not every killer but enough that it becomes an issue. Any time someone grabs that key they're making themselves the only target for a lot of killers. To negate that and stop this from becoming the next gripe everyone has, then just warn the killer there's a key and leave it at that. You can figure out who is the one with the key easily enough, you can see it in their hand.
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