Leaving DS Alone
I've been seeing comments about "balancing" and how they should nerf DS. They don't need to touch DS anymore. It got the nerf it supposedly "needed" last Spring, therefor it's fine as is. Besides, having DS doesn't guarantee ANYTHING. If executed right (as a survivor) you can buy time and maybe even escape. Yes, DS is a huge pain in the ass for a killer, but so is NOED.
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It's rare I ever get hit with it.
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Go for the unhooker and ds never pops, better yet just whack the unhooked and slug to chase the other guy so it’s only one person working on the objective unless they have unbreakable in which case you got that out of them early
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The problem is that good survivors always make use of it. They protect their friends and get free escapes. No killer will wait for 60s to counter it. DS can be traded for 1 injure, or more injures, if killer dont eat DS, and stun.
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I've lost count of the amount of times I've hooked someone, chased someone else while they get unhooked and healed, then manage to find them and down them, THEN get hit with DS. Like oops sorry I tunneled even though I went all the way through another chase and hooked them and you healed and got on a gen oh man look at what a gosh darn tunneler I am you definitely aren't just crap at stealth and chases or wearing a bright outfit so I can't help but see you. Man, what a nasty killer main I am. The timer just lasts for so long it is basically a 60 second immunity after unhook as long as someone is the obsession.
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I get hit with ds a lot... not because I’m tunneling but because I get downs so fast all of them have ds
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The fact that it had to be turned into an "anti-tunneling" perk sounds like a killer problem, not a survivor. If a killer is tunneling me, that is preventing me from progressing into the match. Therefor, I should be able to escape. It's a once-per-match freebee. Like I said, it doesn't guarantee anything other than more time.
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I don’t get hit by it often. I am quite capable of remembering who I hooked and when.
I get more salt out of that fact than anything else.
“Slug so I can’t use my DS”
me: Yep.
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You name all the buff to it but refuse to bring up the key nerf to it. Take your biased thoughts somewhere else. It was nerfed and changed to counter tunneling, whether it does that now is up for discussion, but saying it wasn't nerfed is just wrong. Would you rather go a whole game getting 0 hooks because of one perk, or go the whole game not tunneling. DS isn't hard at all to play around, and if you want to tunnel that badly, then eat it and keep tunneling.
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Sad thing is, most of your killers ( especially the serious ones ) don't care about your match progression, or fun, ect. They're self- absorbed, and only play for their own fun.
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This. I don’t get why people are in such a rush to pick survivors up.
I’m not even normally near the hook when someone is unhooked. If I am then I go for the rescuer since the unhooked person will normally have DS/BT. That way I get to avoid both perks.
If I only see the unhooked survivor then its a simple slug.
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I'm still at a loss as to why people think DS now vs then is a nerf. Seriously, current DS gives every player a 60 second immunity window. How is that in any way a nerf?
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The 60 seconds to do whatever is incorrect.
If you are not a killer who runs back to the hook and you happen to find a survivor they won’t have 60 seconds to do “whatever”.
If you are they yes but you also deserve it if you mean to tunnel right off hook.
Also it’s not like DS makes them untoucheable. You can still down them and slug them. Which takes one survivor off a gen (main objective) and forces a second to heal and off a gen (main objective).
Slugging while it can be countered can only be used once. While you can down them again and slug them unlimited until they bleed out.
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This so much, it's infuriating. Especially when they know they have it up and will jump in a locker (with Head On too for maximum aids) but knowing you literally did the thing it's supposed to do and get hit with it anyway is terrible. My suggestion was to make it so it deactivates once you interact with something to stop this insane abuse. People will get unhooked, and purposefully take a hit for their unhooker just so they can DS and now both of them escaped and you're stunned for ages.
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First off, not everyone who has DS plays like this, and many that do, do it without DS.
If the person decides to immediately work on the gen next to the hook, they are doing that at their own risk because you are one-shot away from getting downed and slugged.
So yes there is a risk. Just because you don’t like that you don’t inflict fear doesn’t mean that there is 0 risk. Many of the people who play risky end up paying the price and sometimes even throw the game.
If you have a problem with how DS is countered there are also perks annoying to counter on the opposite side. Why should I throw the pallet early just to counter Spirit Fury? Just to diminish the full potential of a loop? We can also play that game.
Every killer knows how much of an impact slugging has. They use it even without DS being present AND it is unlimited. Imagine complaining about a built in luxury.
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They added counterplay, which was important.
Still, i ######### hate DS as much as before, I have been hit by it unfairly so many times before its tiresome.
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cry me a river buddy
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They need to fix Map Layouts, Map Sizes, Matchmaking, Ranking, SWF, and Killer Strengths before they can look at the Perks. The perks for too long have been band-aid remedies for bigger problems, and now they are only adding to the problems - changing them now will only skew statistics further than what the perks are already doing. That's what we seen with Ruin.
The moment they changed Ruin there was a big fallback, but then suddenly many people realized we never needed it at all. That's the same with the "crutch" perks Survivors use, but removing/changing them will be even more threatening.
This is why the Dev's have even already told the community they are focusing on Matchmaking, and Ranking right now, then Maps over time.
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Most of the "OP" meta perks that killers complain about were added/tweaked to counter their #########, cheap playstyles.
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I think the Devs would be too scared from the backlash that they would get if they were to touch DS. The salt would be enough to fill the Grand Canyon.
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If you think DS needs a nerf you're not a really good killer, no offense to anyone.
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I really wish people like this would aim higher now that balancing is so bad anyway lol.
You just basically said DS in its original state was fine, that already nullifies your opinion to anyone who isn't a dedicated survivor main. You might as well argue for it to be returned to its original state where it was just another health state lol. I already barley play killer, so it aint hurting me none. I say its raining so let it pour so that maybe the devs will finally try to stop the flood you know?
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They said the same thing about ruin, but since DS is a survivor perk it probably wont be touched for real.
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This is the same thing. Its not true, its very obvious DS is OP so giving the opinion that you suck if you think it needs a nerf already negates any rational person from considering what you say valid. If you take away the "offense" the sentence just becomes generic toxic slander WHICH needs to be heard because its what every toxic survivor is thinking anyway lol
Let the gods hear the crashing waves for what they are
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Really, imo the only big issue I have with it mechanically is locker cheese. If you're grabbed from a locker, you should not get to use DS, because that has no counterplay beyond staring at the locker, which a killer can't afford to do.
Also, I do have a reasoning issue with the stun length. They upped it to 5 because Enduring was a thing, but never touched it when Enduring got that Nerf. (Like .1 second faster pallet stun time less but losing all the other sources is indeed a Nerf in my book, even if pallet stuns are more common.)
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DS will hit you if you try to play well (even without tunneling or camping). What's frustrating is how easy it is to abuse. 60 seconds of killer invulnerability. If the killer doesn't want the 5 second stun (which can't be countered by anything, mind you), then they have to leave them be. It's the dumbest situation. There is no survivor equivalent to this except NOED, but they can counter that before gens are done.
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It was good the way it was before it got nerf.
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DS needs to be restored to it's original state.
THE ONLY TIME A PLAYER CAN USE DS IS WHEN A KILLER IS CHEATING.
MAKE NO MISTAKE. TUNNELING OFF THE HOOK IS CHEATING!
IT IS UNSPORTSMANLIKE, SHADY, AND UNACCEPTABLE!!!
I am a killer main and there is absolutely NO QUESTION IN MY MIND. DS should be removed from the game because ALL SURVIVORS SHOULD BE INVINCIBLE FOR 30 SECONDS AFTER BEING UNHOOKED.
WHY?
THE ENTITY LOATHES WEAKNESS. THE ENTITY HAS NO TOLERANCE FOR KILLERS WHO TRY TO TAKE THE EASY WAY OUT SO SURVIVORS ARE INVINCIBLE FOR 30 SECONDS AFTER BEING UNHOOKED.
I am a killer main and I not only support this, I'm highly considering boycotting the game until the devs make this happen.
when I watch streamers or play as survivor for a daily, I am REPULSED by the behavior of my fellow killers. so shameful.
they should be embarrassed.
poor sports that can't hack it so they bully one player and never let them play the game at all.
it's disgusting.
The game is designed to give killers such a huge advantage and do they use that advantage gracefully? No.
They use it to bully other players like big ######### and then, when bullied players DC because they're tired of being bullied, they get punished.
the devs are constantly catering to whiney killers who blame the game for their lack of skill no matter how OP a killer is and they just leave the survivors to be abused, bullied, and screwed over .
I am a killer main and that is the reality of how it is. I don't know why fellow killers deny it. probably because they're the ######### doing it
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DS Should deactivate when the survivor who has it active, touches a gen.
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In a 5 min match, how the hell is okay to have 1 min to do whatever you want, thats 20% of the entire match.
The real problem with meta perks is, that you can stack them.
They need to make ds, bt, adrenaline, deliverence and unbreakable have a similar cooldown like all exhaustion perks have, so you can't stack them.
Do that and no perk in this game needs "nerfing"
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Why DS needs to be changed?
Because once its active, killer can down and hook 3 people, find the 4th doing a gen 5 meters from the killer, grab him (if it works) and still get DSed because 60 seconds did not pass yet.
Not to mention surviviors unhooking, opening exit gates or being caught near hatch with DS active... Its a ######### joke.
DS is a perk that punishes killer for doing his objective quickly and in a fair way (hooking multiple people and allowing for multiple unhooks), without requiring any skill, effort, planning or anything from the survivior.
So basically its the same as NOED, it punishes surviviors for doing gens fast and does not require anything from the killer .
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This ^^^^^ my friends is the famous specimen called "entitled xxx main", survivior subspecies.
As soon a it sees an attempt to objectively discuss a "nerf", it looses all sense of reason and starts screaming that you are salty/crying for nerf.
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You forgot killer slug due to gen rush and DS the poison its DS snake fault not killers
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i don’t even play the game
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you answerd your own question there its an anti tunnel perk dont tunnel the surviver for 1 min with is not long i play as huntress and i extremly rare get ds if i do tunnel i only tunnel people who dont have mutch cosmetics cause they dont have ds lol
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On the first video yeah its not a tunnel but i feel like the spirit could had easy just down that other surviver who she got ds by instead just doing a random attempt to down the surviver again.
2 video ooooof that looks really annoying maybi she could had let them be on the ground and potentially waited the timer out but they would just crawl out to the exit gate but things like that it very rarely hapens and i still stand by ds is fine dont tunnel but yes this is annoying i agree
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I can see that
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Why don't they just change DS to only activate under the same conditions as Borrowed Time? Must be in Killer TR to activate. That might make it more interesting and add some juicy strategies to it.
I rarely ever get hit by it, but it's always someone who got unhooked and jumped right onto a generator, because 60 seconds of gen time = an almost completed gen, and they know it. Frankly, if someone gets on a gen or does anything other than heal/run away, the Perk should deactivate. It can be used later. This would actually provide some more interesting games for the Survivors, because they can then choose when it will go off.
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I've been running DS now for three years. It has received multiple nerfs, but it's still as strong as previously. Sometimes i just feel dirty using it, specially during end game collapse. Killer cannot do much of anything. It should be named "anti snowball" perk rather than anti tunnel.
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Then it'll be a stealth killer meta then survivors will whine then the stealth killers will be nerfed into the ground while ds will get buffed every patch
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Ok, so if a survivior has DS, he can unhook 3 people, finish a gen, open an exit gate and killer CANT TOUCH HIM because he has DS?!
"jUsT dOnT tUnNeL" doesnt work, I can down and hook 3 people, then find the 4th guy doing a gen/exit gate in my face and I still will get hit by DS just because 60 seconds have not passed yet.
"jUsT sLuG" doesnt work either, current meta is: (DS, Unbreakable, BT and DH/SB/Self Care), so I cant slug.
DS doesnt punish killer for tunneling, it punishes him for getting multiple downs and hooks (and unhooks!) in a short amount of time (60s). So basically, it punishes killer for playing good.
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Last change that was made to DS was a buff, and before that there was a rework that made it more situational but more reliable. So it wasnt really that nerfed.
I wish that DS was an anti tunneling perk and not "anti killer playing good" perk
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ds do punish people for tunneling since they get stunned for 3 seconds :O
and yes dont tunnel does work because if you dont tunnel you whil not getds and not every surviver runs ds aswell my games i can tunnel survivers fun just go for survivers who dont have mutch cosmetics and they usually dont have ds, 1 minit is not long look at this this way right.
You hook 1 person then someone comes for the save you hit them once they save.then down you them and then you down the person they unhook after like 20 seconds then you go back hook the person who tried to save and then its almost gone 60 seconds and it dosent hurt leaving them on the ground for that long since its only 2 survivers who can do annything and the game is pretty mutch in your hands if you play it right
ds is fine and is there to stop tunneling :)
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LOL you think it prevents tunneling? That is such nonsense. I agree with you that it can help in some situations beyond tunneling and offers some flexibility to be more bold and daring but it is not very effective at addressing tunneling. First of all, you can be tunneled twice in a match. And the perk has a few prerequisites including the timer and passing the skill check. And even then Killers will still tunnel you, it's like they don't get the message! I've had matches where I was given borrowed time, DS, head on and was pallet saved and The Killer is still relentlessly coming after me. So yeah. I definitely want to see the perk changed but it has to be effective at remedying being tunneled. And the existing iteration doesn't do enough to address this issue.
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I'm glad but if you ever get tunneled more than once in a match you're screwed. I like how you're shifting the burden of blame to me, when it is The Killer of their own volition that determines whether to Tunnel someone off of a hook. I've definitely had matches where I never get to use decisive and I love that, because I really don't like running DS. I'm not going to list every situation because that would be boring but there are times where I'm so successful in the chase that it exceeds 60 seconds and then I'm basically screwed at that point. It varies from that to match but overall I don't think the existing iteration truly addresses the problem. And I have yet to see suggestions that strike a balance between the killer experience and the Survivor experience in this regard.
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Same here. Some i do tunnel cos by then i am pissed they used a crutch to get away.
But other times i am like, #########. I have hooked somebody in that time and they healed.
Attaching a condition to full health state to activate can be abused. They will just not heal so they can use it. Attaching a hook might be too long of a time. What i do know is that 60 seconds is too long of a time.
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What about being out of TR for 10 seconds? Or 15 seconds?
woops...there are killers who have none lol...i tried
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I never said it should be an absolute remedy. However, I can't entirely agree that perk is viable in the current state. DS can help with tunneling once per match if you meet the conditions and can be useful in some daring plays beyond that. The point I was illustrating is that even when coupled with so many perks and other options, nothing can stop a tunnel.
DS extends the tunnel, and in some cases, you may get away, but ultimately if The Killer wants to tunnel you, you will be tunneled. So not a fan of changes that benefit The Killer when the existing version isn't even that great. I want to see the balance for both roles, not just adjustments that favor The Killer. And where are any official statements that the perk is exclusively for tunneling?
And finally it doesn't have to be as dramatic and extreme as you expressed. It can be balanced to be more effective at tunneling but also fair for The Killer.
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Ok, so if a guy with DS gets unhooked, I ignore him, then I down 3 other people, then I hook these 3 people, then I find the 4th guy doing a gen in front of me, so I catch him and THEN I get DSed because 60 seconds passed yet, then is this called tunneling or not?
Spoiler: ITS NOT TUNNELING BUT DS STILL WORKS
So no, not tunneling does not stop surviviors from hitting you with DS.
DS punishes killer for playing good (3 downs and hooks in 60a IS playing good), not for tunneling.
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waiting for the PTB patch notes. If something not announced on DS being nerfed, really need to find a new game to play. 60 second invincibility shield is so bad. Skill check so easy to hit. Slows down all momentum of the killer.
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