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This is Not Fair
The wall breaking mechanics should not be given to all killers, how does that make sense? And how is it fair? It should just be a unique killer power.
I get that the devs are trying to nerf loops, but why don't they try to nerf tunneling and camping at base kit? Isn't looping a "legit strategy" just like tunneling and camping?
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shrug idk to be honest. I dont think they will be putting these walls in bad/weak loops. Hopefully they only put them in annoyingly good loops like the one in the corn map. You all know what im talking about.
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I doubt jungle gyms + killer shack will be able to be broken, just some walls near busted windows.
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yeah, like the legitimately strong ones, like iron Works. But I swear if they put them in totally not overpowered loops that require ACTUAL skill, bye bye Dead by Daylight.
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Doubt. After all these killer threats, complaints, and decrease of players they will.
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Lol. Bye.
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I think this is aimed more at god loops like the main buildings on Ironworks, Groaning Storehouse, and four out of the five Coldwind maps. Wouldn't be surprised if the reworks for those maps will include breakable walls and the new map is just a test.
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They've basically confirmed that new map is a test, so the others won't have breakable walls. But it honestly sounds like they want to nerf ALL loop walls, like T walls, 4 walls, ESPECIALLY jungle gyms, etc... all because killer don't know how to anti-loop/ mind game.
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They are doing this as some loops are completely busted without Bamboozle.
If this was a killer power, it would be terrible as it only works at some areas, you can’t just bust through every wall you see. This makes is easier for BHVR to balance maps correctly, while adding a new game element. Yes looping is a legit strat, same with tunneling and camping, but looping is very RNG based, while tunneling and camping is not.
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What I can see is really strong loops becoming more mind gamable.
Also the killer opening the wall could be more of a choice as who knows some may make a loop stronger or give you more time to reach another.
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Let's see how it plays out before we rush to judgment.
They dont have time to rework all the maps. They cant keep bleeding out killers. Seems like this could be a way to fix both issues.
Let's be honest. You shouldn't be able to bully a killer. It makes the game a joke.
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Tunneling and camping have been nerfed, like, twice, calm down. and both we're quite insignificant.
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Okay, then get you list them, please? Because as far as I'm concerned, there has only been added amounts of seconds you can hit a survivor after being unhooked. That's it.
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I see these walls more like pallets that are already down. If you get into a chase before the killer breaks the wall, he has to choose to either follow your loop like normal, or take the time to go break that wall.
Yes, it may shut down the loop for the rest of the match, but the loss of awareness (nose against wall with no view, plus time spent breaking it down) means that the survivor will have no trouble escaping that particular chase.
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Tunneling got nerfed when DS was reworked, same with the Styptic Agent, as these 2 can help counter tunneling, same with BT
Camping got nerfed multiple times
Survivors can be unhooked at any angle
survivors got I frames when being unhooked
When getting off hook by yourself, you regain control of your character faster
Kindred’s existence
Also DS
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I'll take jungle gyms having a breakable wall. That'd be cool. Same with shack. I'd like it if the I-walls got safer tho
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The mechanic even come,we still don't know how it works or even if is going to be in the game,just wait a little longer.
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So main building with 2-3 pallets inside of them are fair? A killer cam spent anywhere from 30 seconds to 2 minutes chasing a survivor inside of the building
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I almost always agree with your opinions Umbrae but gotta be honest, this one I disagree with. And I know it'll look ridiculous with some killers(hello Pig, Legion and GF) but I think it's FAR too early to tell and make final say yet.
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Even if they make all of them have breakable walls. Just like pallets, the killer cant spend all their time breaking them. They won't have any pressure and the gens will pop.
Meanwhile if I see you breaking a wall or hear it i will do a cheeky mindgame and disappear while you are locked in animation. It will only be worth on strong loops.
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Haha I see what you did there mister! What a callback. I just really hope the devs don't go overboard and make all loops, uh, well... "unloopable"
Don't be scared to disagree with my "trash toxic entitled survivor main" opinion, I won't hate you :D Glad you're going to have fun, though!
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omg would you people STOP overreacting based on nothing, really getting sick of these whiney doom scenarios you are pulling straight out of where the sun does not shine.
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This made me feel a lot better, actually. thanks for that. I guess you're right. Too early to tell, though.
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Ya know, we were having a constrictive discussion here before you came and insulted me again :|
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Nah, I don't think they'll cave that hard. They already know that the majority of games are just killer slaughters. A lot more people die than live and they're well aware. The ruin nerf only exposed bad killers for what they are.
The toolbox nerfs show they're handling this the right way working on the specific, outlier problems without touching the base gameplay. So far at least.
The sabo changes I think are pretty fantastic. Makes them more like less annoying flashlights. It's more useful to try and save someone with it now while also neutering that very toxic, troll SWF with four no mithers that just run around 99ing every hook to screw with the killer. Definitely approve.
I think the dev update is a net positive in every way for both sides of the game. It adds some new mechanics and might just shake up the gameplay a bit with more strategic use of toolboxes and sabotage as well as opening up new tactics for killers with the breakable walls. Do you run CI and just start smashing half the walls on one side of the map to make it extremely dangerous there? Do you use I'm All Ears to break down a wall you know that survivor is about to loop past?
Honestly, I uninstalled a few days ago out of annoyance at something, but this might just make me come back.
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"legit strategy"
i dont see how fair it is to abuse overpowered windows that give you a free escape
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think you need to look up the definition of "constructive discussion" before using it.
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It's only a threat if it hasn't happened. Since it has been happening, what killers did was make promises. Many switched to survivor, and queue times skyrocketed.
Killer is the most skill based and strategic role in the game. Survivor is the most chill role in the game. You can go on and on about "looping taking so much skill", but at the end of the day, survivors have a distinct advantage during loops. They might think they are mind gaming something, but really, it's because they have a 360 degree third person viewpoint. Something the killer doesn't have. I'm not saying the killer SHOULD have this, but it does dampen the skill argument. All the killer can do a lot of the time is guess. Survivors in a lot of cases don't have to guess.
Killers have every right to want buffs. The devs, have for all intents and purposes, been survivor sided for a very long time.
You may not think so and point out "omg self care and balance landing nerfs", but think of it this way - when survivor things are nerfed (balanced landing, and more recently toolboxes being the upcoming example), there's always a trade off. Something is taken, but something is put in it's place. When RUIN was nerfed for example, it was just gutted. Nothing was done as a trade off. Or when EGC came in and Pig was indirectly nerfed in her end game. Nothing was given as a trade off, like pretty much every survivor nerf.
They are even survivor sided when it comes to bug fixes. DS had an issue in the Doctor patch. It was fixed in under a week. Meanwhile, sounds for killers aren't fixed, which has been there for months, and Wraith's lunge STILL isn't completely fixed. It's quite clear where their priorities lie the majority of the time.
So, having said that, what I don't think is fair is survivors complaining about killers actually getting buffs once in a while.
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Still crazy to me how no matter what the devs do, they will always be called "survivor-sided" despite the escape stats.
I don't think the toolbox nerf will do much, since I know we can do gens super fast even without them. I am, however, glad about this toolbox change. Makes you think a little more, eh?
I am SO THRILLED for the sabotage changes. As a 100% solo survivor, I've never really got a great experience with sabo AT ALL, so I'm on board with this, too!
I read @silverwolf4455 comment and felt a little better about the breakable walls.
Dedicated servers MAKE ME want to uninstall, but I'm not going to. I hope you come back to thus game with a warm welcome and fun return!
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Yeah, maybe I wasn't being too constructive, I'll admit that. But at least we weren't outright insulting people.
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Remember, even though dedicated servers are "prioritized" for killlers...killers never wanted them. It was survivors who begged for dedicated servers. Killers actually tried to warn us.
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You definitely need more time to be good a killer than survivor.
Killers have every right to want buffs. But so do we.
I don't think the devs are survivor-sided, and if they are, I don't think they mean to.
We got nothing out of Self-Care nerf, and the Balanced Landing "trade" isn't too good and I definitely prefer the old way it was. The EGC Pig nerf was 100% needed, and did kinda get something in return. The smoother transition between crouch and standing up. I think Ruin is still good, but what do I know, right?
It does seem weird to me how DS got fixed in 3 days, tops, while sound bugs, Spirit and Wraith lunge aren't fixed for months. To that I say I don't think they know. They've acknowledged Spirit and audio but I personally think it takes longer to fix a core game mechanic than a perk.
If you compare the game from 2016/2017 to NOW survivors have been nerfed countless times while killers got buffs, with the occasional nerfs.
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What do you mean how is it fair? We don’t even know how long it takes or where these walls will be. Even if it’s on jungle gyms etc, you’ll be forced to drop the pallet earlier but then you run to another one after they broke it. It’s not like it’s the only loop on the map.
Is it going to make it so there’s going to be less pallets in the endgame and will survivors be forced to be more thoughtful with pallets? Most likely.
Is this a bad thing? I don’t think so. After the Ruin changes a killer can’t spend too much time on a survivor, even less than before because of gens going faster. With this mechanic, a killer could find a way around it. Killers still won’t be able to braindead chase one survivor and expect to win, but at least a killer won’t be forced to waste so much time on specific loops anymore.
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I agree with most of that, except for survivors wanting nerfs. Survivors have zero reason or right to ask for buffs. There is nothing in their arsenal that is underpowered enough to warrant a buff, they have all the advantages in the world, and they have the most powerful second chance perks in the game. I invite you to name one thing survivor related that needs a buff. Something that is actually underpowered that needs a buff.
The only thing survivors need is to have some of their useless perks reworked to not be useless, but that could be said for both sides. There's too many of those useless niche perks. Like, Vigil and Bitter Murmur. As for ruin still being good...maybe semi useful using a killer with mobility. Maybe, and even then, you don't need a gen slowdown perk on a killer with mobility. Put ruin on Clown? Huntress? Pig? or any other M1 low mobility killer? It's useless. Especially on big maps.
I agree the EGC Pig nerf was needed, but for an M1 killer (which is all she is during EGC because of the nerf), the crouch change (I say change because it was under no circumstances a buff) is worthless. How does that help during the EGC? It doesn't. Balanced landing for example, the stagger reduction when exhausted was a necessary change because of certain maps, and while it was underwhelming, what they gave it in return is still useful. The silent fall.
In terms of things they haven't fixed..I find it hard to believe they can nerf Oni within 3 days of him being released (Wraith and Spirit were broken with the Oni patch), and not fix Wraith and Spirit, both of which had very similar in territory (attack) issues for months. When it comes to sounds...they break sounds with every other patch. You'd think they'd know how to fix this by now.
As for comparing 2016 to now - that's a bit of a strawman argument (no offense), because there were things back then that were legitimately broken. Like, actual infinite loops that were literally impossible to catch a survivor (even with bloodlust at the time), instant BNPs, first down mori's (on killer side), exhaustion regenerating while still running, pallet vacuums, double pallets/double windows etc. Like, those nerfs were more than just nerfs for the sake of nerfs, they were actually broken. When survivor improvements and fixes need to happen, its very quick. Killers? Well...let's just say it took them 2 years to fix Freddy and when sounds get broken, every time, its a minimum of 3 months before they are fixed...they gutted Nurse when all she needed was her addons nerfed because some of them were actually broken.
Basically what I'm saying is, most survivor nerfs happen because things are actually broken, and they are 99% of the time given something to compensate (the sabo and toolbox thing is a good example). Killer stuff more or less just gets gutted and that's it; and when they do get actual buffs, they are...underwhelming to say the least.
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I haven't seem the numbers yet or watched any footage on the ptb but this update seems the most balanced in a while.
Some nice changes for both survivor and killer, both q.o.l and balance. Yes I believe that survivor is still to easy only because those gens can fly at red ranks. But it seems to be slowly moving in the right direction.
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Yes looping is viable and intended. However the length of some current loops and God loops is not. Breakable walls aren't everywhere and it gives killer something only they can interact with like survivors pallets hence why perks that effect pallets effect breakable walls.
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I thank God you're not designing killers.
A killer whose power is to be a worse Clown doesn't sound appealing to anyone.
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They just added a very powerful anti tunneling perk, like they keep adding anti tunneling/camping perks and anti slugging perks even, yet any anti gen rush perk gets nerfed into the ground, denied synergy with other gen perks, if released at all.
How much immunity do you want until there is no game left to be played you just pick survivor and choose the right perks and win, never being able to be hooked more than once lol.
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Bruh, dont be redicules dude! Killers have been gutted again and again, finally we see ONE SINGLE killer related change for the better and all the baby survivors are already on the complaining! YOU REALLY NEED TO STAY DOWN AND WAIT FOR AFTER THE PTB!
Besides, do you really expect all maps to be modified just because ONE killer power, that would not make sence, they honestly did the right thing if they wanted to add this wallbreaking mechanic at all.
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Survivors just want bullyable killers, complaints like this are a strategy to get nerfs that's worked extremely well since the nurse got tombstoned
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Don't forget the gigabuff to sabotage in this update that erases all the stuff they tried doing for killer
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it's literally one map
at the rate they rework maps, you won't have to worry about your precious god loops on 95% of the maps for a good while
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