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Plague is a problem, and it's only going to get worse.
Howdy y'all, It's Vigo Here! I'm a killer man, but I also play a little bit of survivor It's about an 80-20 split. Plague is a problem and has a few fundamental issues with her core design that make her not only unfun to play but also unfun to play against.
Honestly after clown I think plague is the one who needs the biggest rework. As a killer I don't think she's great but I also know that she has problems and that she could be better for both parties. It's not fun to be unable to work on a gen because someone who is sick is working on it and you don't want to take the penalty. It's also not very fun to have to play the game like you have no mither because cleansing this thing off will give the killer a ability that makes one shot Myers look like a joke.
I know there are restrictions that make it not overpowered, but what this translates to is that the killer doesn't get to use their power and basically becomes an m1 machine, and the survivors have to deal with mechanics that are frustrating and obtuse. like I can't unhook my friend because he's sick and I'm not and if I touch him I'm going to have to play the rest of the game without a second hit. Basically you'll either get to give the killer tier 3 Myers or ranged tier three or at Myers if you decide they cleanse.
Again she's not great because no one cleanses, and I think making the killer more powerful will not fix these fundamental issues. It's not fun to play the plague, you only get a minute of being able to use a clunky weird range attack, and you only get that if survivors decide to give you that ability. Otherwise you're getting looped, taking pallets, playing in jungle gyms. And it's just not fun. not to mention the ability is not really satisfying to use especially with latency, it's basically a worse feeling huntress and it's not great.
I guess the point of trying to make is that the new change to plague isn't going to do anything but make every problem I listed here worse. I think she does need more power, but I also think that her power needs to change so that the mechanics that govern her abilities are not only fun to use, but fun to go up against. And you just can't Band-Aid that.
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I like playing as and against plague. I also find legion fun though, so I wouldn't pay too much attention to my opinions.
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Plague fixed all of the problems that still exist with Legion. Plague was rectifying the mistakes made with Legion.
Plague is fine imo and when I play her people tend to cleanse eventually.
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Plague is fine
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agreed with the other two plague is fine, she definitely needs a certain play style and perks to do well but what killer is at their best without perks.
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So basically, they added a unique killer to the game. And you can't just brain dead rinse and repeat actions to beat her. Her power and vomit is actually a deterrent to you working together, as intended. And you have a problem with that.
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Well I think lesion is underpowered, I do think that is power and kit is actually fun to play against. I just find plague to be not really fun because it forces you to play the game in a basic way. You're either m1ing the whole game or you're getting a incredibly powerful ability that doesn't feel satisfying to use in my opinion. Or at the very least is done better another killers like the huntress. I just would like to see the power reworked so there's a bit more counter play. and the killer has more opportunities to use a power.
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No, that is a misrepresentation of what I said. What I am saying is her ability rarely gets used and forces her to play pretty much m1 the whole game which is the most optimal way to play against her. As a survivor it's not fun to be unable to do actions such as work on gens or rescue teammates. Taking away gameplay options for the survivor does not lead to "deep gameplay" It leads to stagnant gameplay. I think that her ability could be reworked to be something that is fun for both people to use. I am a killer man first and foremost and that's my problem with the plague.
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I guess I'll have to agree to disagree, I typically play in high ranks so maybe that affects my opinion but whenever I play her survivors never heal and I often find myself never using a power that I find to be unsatisfying to use. I think it's nifty but I feel like there's just so much more that can be done with this concept that isn't being tapped into right now leading to what I consider to be a unfunded player loop both for killer and survivor. She needs a buff in my opinion, but I think she needs a buff in terms of a rework not a simple tweak like they're doing now.
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You are misunderstanding the point of this post, I'm not saying she's overpowered or underpowered although personally I feel she's underpowered. I'm saying that her power and gameplay loop isn't fun to go up against because it limits the ways survivors can actually even play the game. And it pretty much prays upon ignorance of the mechanics for successful games. I'm a killer main first and foremost, but I find her power to be unsatisfying. The blood vomit lacks impact and it's way too short, plus you're putting your ability to use it into the survivor's hands. and the regular just running around trying to m1 people isn't great, personally I prefer an ability that would make chases quicker and make it easier to find people imagine being able to pop a pallet from a distance by vomiting on it, or forcing slow vaults by vomiting on them. I don't know what it should be all I know is that limiting gameplay options makes the game feel less varied and it's why a lot of me and my friends find it frustrating to go up against a plague and it's why I don't like playing as a plague.
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These are fundamentally different killers that you're comparing. What made the legion fun what's the fast movement, it changes the way that you play! Plus he's all about getting first hits as opposed to only having to hit once. Not to mention his split pressure cannot be beat. Legion has problems but the plague does not fix any of them because they're different killers with different goals in mind.
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if you're not going to offer a reason I'm just going to say no she's not, change my mind.
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Honestly I think legion is fun! I just feel like there are some problems with plagues core design. I think it can be done better and not feel so frustrating to play against
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If survivors don’t heal then Legion and Plague are both in the same boat - both M1 killers with no power.
The difference comes when survivors DO choose to heal.
Legion - Survivors hold M1 to heal. They hold M1 on gens. Legion can get hits so easily that if survivors want to heal they’re going to be doing nothing but holding M1 all game. Doesn’t help that a lot of Legions run Thana and Mangled add ons. This is why survivors d/c or give up on hook against him. He’s hands down the most boring killer in the game. Not to mention his power is brain dead, tap M2 and just follow the survivor until you get a hit. Then every other survivor in the area gets their location revealed.
Plague - 5 second heals. Removes the tedious aspect of healing. In return the killer becomes more dangerous with a new power. There’s an interesting gameplay loop there which isn’t present with Legion. Plague is far more interesting from a killer standpoint.
I’d say it extends to playing them as well personally. With Plague the vomit stream itself is a fun mechanic. It’s fun to use. If/When you get Corrupt’s also a lot of fun due to the sheer power of it and the fact that you go from an M1 killer to a projectile killer.
With Legion you just tap M2 and run after the survivor. They run, you run. They vault, you vault. Then you tap M1 to get the most braindead hit in the game and then dash onto the next survivor whose location is revealed for you. Legion just feels like auto-mode. The game might as well play itself for you.
Just my opinion but I think Plague is leagues ahead of Legion both to play as and against. If I play Legion for a daily many survivors will just give up on hook and I’m really not surprised.
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What I don't get Is where it'll ever be "fun" to lose or be dominated/outplayed. It's not fun when you can't work on a gen without getting sick? Ok why? Probably because that's stopping you from winning. It will never be fun for a killer when survivors win, and it will never be fun for a survivor to lose. In most scenarios. Of course you can have some fun chase games. Losing is not fun. And what you're saying is you want them to contort the game until losing feels fun. Why? Then what's the point?
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Plague is ridiculously strong when survivors give her red vomit the whole game
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Plague is nothing like Legion. When you are sick you can still proceed to do gens, when you have been hit with a frenzy stab, you have to mend.
I have a lot of fun with Plague because match could go several ways. It isn’t determined just because survivors don’t cleanse.
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You're comparing tomatoes to chicken. What I'm talking about is game feel, I am not talking about power. Or overall viability. The legion feels nicebecause he can vault windows and pallets and moves fast and can get that satisfying hidden even if it's not as good as the plague with her ability. what I'm saying is the optimal way to play against the plague is to not interact with the mechanic. Accept your fate and be injured the whole game. and people are not interacting with this mechanic so much that the devs are making it so that they have to at least get one corrupted Purge in.
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"You can completely negate the Plague's Corrupt Purge"
*laughs in Apple add-ons*
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I dislike that she invalidates any build that wants to heal. Usually the gameplan is quite boring against her as well just rush gens and don't cleanse.
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I 100% agree that she needs a rework. Her power really limits the options survivors have to counter her, and the fact that nobody cleanses makes her really boring to play as. Here is what I would do:
If being infected was much more punishing it would motivate survivors to cleanse instead of staying infected. Perhaps making all action 15% slower would fix this. To keep things balanced I would make corrupt purge last 30 or 35 seconds, so survivors are not punished as much. I think this would lead to more use out of her and I believe it would make the overall game much healthier.
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Please don't touch her, I actually enjoy playing as her (there's a reason she is my second P3 all perk) and there very much is strategy involved. Perks such as blood echo and thanatophobia are given more purpose with her as she is than many other killers. If you think her gameplay is stagnant then maybe the community needs to rethink how they approach their strategy against her, because let's be honest the no heal strat works only sometimes, I've 4k'd many a group that tried it.
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NERF 🐽🐽🐽
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I don't want a Nerf I want her changed
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Honestly if you think about it she's infinite tier 3 Myers almost to a T without the faster window vaulting and slightly increased lunge, which isn't too much of a necessity when everyone's a one shot down. So what does this say about Myers? I don't think Myers is bad, so I wouldn't be calling for buffs personally, considering someone who is basically him but potentially can be him on steroids is better than him and no one's calling for Myers buffs. Like Plague literally cuts out the middle man(well not cuts out, but shortens the requirements significantly) to become an infinite tier 3 Myers(a UR addon for Myers himself) in her base kit. How is this something that's seen as weak?
Like according to the way her power works she is basically a better version of Myers in every way. Never is less than 115% movement speed(always has it), always one shots once everyone's sick(not hard, puke on gens, puke on one person to let it build, find another, etc), and if they cleanse, she doesn't even need the extra lunge range at all.
Post edited by Atrushan88 on0 -
Being infected already has penalties.
• One hit away from down.
• If broken you infect other survivors and therefore slow the game down because they would have to be willing to get sick.
• With the new change, Plague will be able to use Corrupt Purge from the start. So this whole “who cleansed?!” Probably won’t come into play because there will not be a need for it in the beginning.
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pig nerfs are 100% though👀
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That's not true at all. At their base, both are 'Herding' Killers. Their power is ment to allow them to control Survivors in terms of direction and break apart groupings. While the Corrupt form of her power is fun to use, it's only ment to further her pressure and score hits in a chase. It's not a one hit down either, by any means, until it's counter has applied the broken status, which takes a bit to build up. That's also why they're both very fast as well. They use speed and their unique powers to pressure Survivors and force them into unfavorable situations which make hunting them easier.
Currently, adding the ability to guarantee the use of her full power without the need for survivors to cleanse should give her a much needed boost, but will ultimately also vary how she's used, as well. It sounds to me like you lack the creative mentality to use her not only as intended, but that you'd prefer her power to be more easily felt with by Survivors, which would limit her DRASTICALLY.
I think your arguments as a Survivor are silly, as it sounds like you don't like the entire theme of her ability, which is to spread a literal debilitating plague. As a Killer, you don't like when you has full power, because it's too useful, yet when it's just her base, you seem to think it not useful enough. Forgive my saying so, but at this point, it's clear the Plague isn't the issue at hand, but your inability utilize her powers properly or creatively to your own benefit, as well as deal with them as a survivor.
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Honestly Plague is fine. She doesn't have anything to help her at loops so if you know how to loop then you just have to play it as you would but safer. Don't sit on gens if you hear the heartbeat, always know where good windows and tiles are etc....basic stuff. That's all you need against Plague. I also don't mind being broken since I usually run dead hard, resilience and empathy/kindred so it works out in my favour more than it does for the Plague player. And she is fun to play imo, if she's not for you then that's fine, just know that your statement about the plague not being fun is subjective and not applicable to the entire community.
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once again you're missing the point, it's not how powerful the plague is It's how annoying and unfundshe is to play and play against. Yes she has counter play, yes she isn't the best killer but she's also not the worst, the problem is is that it's just not fun to play against!
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Once again it's subjective. I think she's fun. There are people who enjoy playing against Spirit and Clown. And there's not much in this game that's equally fun to both sides in the first place so I don't see why you'd single out Plague like this other than she just had a buff announced.
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It hasn’t been that way in a long while from my experience. People do cleanse eventually. Once one starts more do it too because then they’re thinking “well might as well if the others are giving her corrupt purge”
I take monitor & abuse and you can get extremely close. Combine it with blood echo to take away their dead hard clutch and you see them cleansing like never before.
Monitor lets you get so close. When you start hooking them over and over again eventually they will cleanse.
Just my experience. The squads that absolutely 100% refuse to heal I haven’t seen in a long time.
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Right, in most low to mid ranked games where people don't know how to loop effectively they do Cleanse and further more killers who are low to mid rank typically can't effectively utulize the blood puke. However high ranked game play sees this killer either get rofle stomped or shows the killer stampeding through the game with the corrupted purge. This cycle is stomp or be stomped is not really... healthy. What I am saying is the strat for beating this killer is by not interact with the mechanic "Should I save my friend even though I am not sick? WELL YEAH Because I am gonna get gooped on anyway so ######### it" or "Should I work on this gen even though its gooped on due to other survivors working on it? WELL YEAH Because I am going to get gooped on anyway"
The best strat for fighting a killer should never be not interacting with the killers mechanics, and having a killer who just M1's better than other killers while very rarely getting a power boost ONLY IF Survivors let you have said power boost is not fun either. It's a lot of loops, its a lot of pallets and its just not really great when we could get a better more varied power instead that does interact with chases and does not feel frustrating to play against.
I am not saying shes bad as a killer, I am saying that shes not fun as a killer, and for a survivor its not fun either. The counter play is really just not there, you don't really have to use your brain its pretty much "Deny the power and get good at loops" because survivors get power over this killers power unless if they use addons. But even then if they use Addons that does not make me want to cleanse it just makes me annoyed that I have nothing that I can do against a killer who has now the most powerful ability in the game. I think survivors should actually wanna cleanse and I think this killer should have more options in her kit to deal with survivors other than a admittedly powerful periodic use power and M1ing.
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I am focusing on the plague because buffing her power won't fix my problems with the killer it will just reduce the counter play survivors have to deal with her which only makes my problems with her kit even worse. Spirit was fun for the killer side but really she just needed more visual and audio cues so the survivor could have at least some counter play to some of her more frustrating strats. In my post I stated bluntly that "Behind the clown, I think the plague should be the next to be reworked" Clown can be fun to play and hes very fun to play against the problem is hes not viable in high ranked play due to his lack of map pressure and how ineffective his kit can be in speeding up chases. The plague can do high ranked play its just not very fun, The Clown Can't hence why he needs a rework more. I am just stating that the buff to plague will only make her problems more glaring and its why I made the thread to begin with.
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I personally don't find the Plague very fun to play against. I usually run Self Care, Botany Knowledge, Lithe, and Borrowed Time. She counters two of my perks just for existing. If I bring a medkit it's useless. She also counters any perks that have to do with healing (We'll Make it, Autodidact, Inner Strength etc) , and Iron Will. She even makes No Mither peeps throw up every where for easy tracking!
She may not have the lunge, or vault speed of tier 3 myers, but she can hear those cries of pain that he can't when searching around gens.
99% of Plague's also run Thanatophobia, making those gens go by fairly slowly so your punished for not cleansing, and punished if you do.. the game is even slower when she runs other gen slow down perks. It's just not a fun match for me win or lose.
Strength wise I think she is fine. I just don't have much fun playing her, or playing against her. Throw up everywhere, don't cleanse everyone is one shot and no more power, or cleanse and have a brain dead spit that you just rotate your camera in a survivors general direction and they just go down near instantly. Thrilling game play on both sides.
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