Key is heavily unbalanced.
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The keys do not let survivors bypass the entire main objective. The last time I checked you first have to even do enough gens to make the hatch spawn. Then if you want to waste time you can and have to hunt down the the hatch which can be so difficult to find at times.
I mean moris however are plain and simple hook survivor then tunnel survivor and kill survivor. I have had killers do this more times then I have had survivors use keys while I was killer. I have even gone as far to throw my body in front of the killer to get their attention and they will run right past me without even wasting a swing on me.
The stuff you have to do to use a key compared to a mori is a lot more and before anyone says it I am not a survivor main or killer. I enjoy playing each side because they are fun.
Also I have to agree with the other person that posted to you. If you cannot see a key you may need to check your graphics. I play on probably the worst system for the game and can tell the difference between a flashlight, medkit, toolbox, or a tiny little thing that might be a key. My vision is also horrible just saying. lol
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I agree it should not be an option but if the survivor played bad chances are even escaping is only gonna get them MAYBE 10k BP. I would rather see them die and believe me I hate players who do not try and yet survive. I have saved teammates soooo many times that even after I died I still had more BP's. I hate the players that also when it comes down to you and one other survivor they camp the hatch and rub their scent on it and won't leave it. I always pray the killer gets these people and will let the more skilled player who tries out.
In the end I agree that it sucks bad players escape but the scoreboard will hurt them. The sad part is I do not think they care and I am sure they get a false sense of "I am better" attitude.
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Just another person venting I would think. I found the story a little hard to believe as well. I am thinking just mad he did not get the easy win so his plan is to take away more things until he can win. lol
I am thinking just take away survivor perks and give them pool noodles and when the killer comes up they can swat them on the noise and say BAD KILLER and run. rofl .....sorry just being silly
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Of course you won't but you sure will vent because you were outplayed. BOOM!
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I only ask but how early do you and the others think survivors can leave the game. Even if they bring or find a key they still need to do gens to make it spawn. That means the number of survivors plus 1, so if there is 4 survivors still alive they still need to do all 5 gens and if they use a key then they deserve it.
I mean even then they ALL need to find the hatch at the same time which is hard enough alone let alone as a group. I have tried to get fellow survivors to follow me and it almost never happens.
I am not a survivor main or a killer main but I personally after using both think Moris are still stronger. I have used a few keys and even after the hatch did spawn could not find the bastard. When I use a mori you hook survivor then slap survivor and kill survivor.
The keys are not like a god send and a instant escape. There is still plenty of work that needs to be done prior to using them. I mean if there wasn't I would see them used WAAAAAAYYYY more than I do. I am lucky to see a key used maybe 3 times a week and most the time it doesn't even get used. When a mori comes into play though which is more often I certainly see it used because the killer will SUPER TUNNEL the poor survivor.
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Lol you do realize in order for them to even remotely use a key they have to complete 5 generators then the hatch spawn in THEN they have to find it. For three they have to complete four generators. They can't just "do nothing and hide" or "didn't complete any objectives" it sounds like the problem here is you need to get good kill them before they complete the necessary generators to ESCAPE you know what they are supposed to do lol. Get good mate and if the keys are really giving you that much trouble use that perk that knocks it off em when you hit them, they will have to run away then waist time coming back to look for it. Plus you can always use ya Mori Jimbo. Over powered, it's not really op if they have to complete 5 gens for a full team and 4 for three. If the killer has already gotten 4 gens done and only down one dude... Well.... And the devs know this XD this is no more then a glorified rant post. Learn to combat the key it's easy XD I've not once has them survs escape with a key and knocking it off then is a wonderful lure.
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IS it really a fair point? I mean he is pretty much overlooking all the work that goes into using a key if someone actually even brings one or finds one. I just keep reading the post that people are angry at the keys and they seem to think you can start a match and magically just wave your key and poof your on a island sipping some drinks. There is so much you have to do and even after that then you have to find this HOLY PORTAL. Now people want to add a timer to opening it. I mean heck why not just add more gens to the game and in order to use the hatch we need to do all of them then.
Then we can go looking for the hatch and hope to find it. I am not mad either way but I just want people to really think about how much work goes into using a key before making it harder to use something I hardly ever see used anyway. I mean no matter if it is a RED KEY or a PURPLE KEY there is still work to be done PRIOR to the hatch spawning and then having to find it.
If you look at moris though the only requirement for a RED Mori is hook the survivor. If either RED KEY or RED MORI is unfair it is the MORI.
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I have taken a looong break from this game and thanks to some new things that are popping back up I have almost debated taken another long break myself. I see to many killers saying the survivors need more nerfs but most my games end in 4 deaths. I am starting to feel if the killer doesn't get a complete clear then the game is unfair.
I am not a main on either side and play both sides because I think it is fun and also boring to stick to one side or the other. I can see how some things are unfair but if you want to point out survivors issues then you have to also point out the major obvious killer issues. They never do though. If they have one game were even on survivor escapes the first thing I see in forums is OFF WITH THIS PERK! haha
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Eh but then its not like you can just instantly use a key you have to have a certain amount of gens done and people alive to use it. if everyone is still alive ALL gens must be done to even use the key and 4 for three survivors and 3 for two and any for the last so its not as if its a easy win here. with moris killers only need one hook and they can mori that survivor and most times when killers bring moris we expect them to tunnel off first hook and mori us because thats whaf happens 85% of the time unless they are a respectable and good killer who knows what they're doing will get two hooks and then mori on death hook so to even compare moris to keys is bull. Lol its like gen rushing some killers say their matches last 5 minutes right because of gen rushing same goes for killers that bring moris and auto tunnels to use them mostly pink ones for green ones i mostly see killers use it on the survivor they dont like the most from that match lol or the one that gave them a run for their money i dont see yellow ones much when it comes to moris so i cant really speak in that but if someone has a key i dont think killers should complain about it since work still has to go into using that key to start with so this thread is highkey pointless so what if you dont get your 3k-4k and half the times we dont even get to use that key we brought lmao for the killers that really pay attention before the match starts will see the key and 50% of the time we get tunneled like heck just because we brought the key. Its not that big of a deal 🤷🏽
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I'm not arguing keys are more "fair" than mories or claiming the opposite. I'm saying they're both busted and should be changed. The frequency of seeing either a key or a mori honestly shouldn't matter. If something is broken, you fix it. You don't just look and see if it's worth fixing because of how little either occurs. That said, I play both sides as well and see both mories and keys on a regular basis.
"They still need to do gens" is, especially in these times, just a weak argument... A killer loses 2-3 gens early game and that means the hatch will already spawn if you kill 2 survivors off. That is if you're able to defend the last gens and that you're able to get 6 hooks on the same survivors, which if you want to play fair and just have fun with the game is almost impossible.
The way I see it, the hatch is already a broken mechanic as it just robs the killer and if they ever reworked keys (and mories), in my opinion at least, they should rework the hatch as well. Though, I doubt they would ever go that far.
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You may be right but maybe because I play on a different platform my experience is different. When I play killer and I am being fully honest I can have 2 killers hooked before the second gen pops.
When I play survivor I am lucky if my team gets 3 gens done per game unless I do them all myself. The hatch normally ends up being my only way out and I do not use the key I just pray to find it before the killer. I get stuck with such crappy solo que teams that I spend most games babysitting and unhooking people while the others pop gens alerting the killer the whole time, so the hatch in some games are a god send. I mean it would suck as a survivor who works their butt off only to get killed because your team just refused to learn the game. I mean it happens but should a player that seriously tries be denied the right to escape because their team not only let them down but let them down so bad that circus bears could have been better partners? lol
I am not saying everyone should use the hatch because I have more fun doing gens and getting points but the hatch is a safe escape when your team is dead and it's just you and you still have 3 gens. Always try gens but if its not safe and you can get out I say take the escape.
The escape gates in most maps are so close together that if you are also the only one alive you might as well just go in a corner and wait to die. I have actually done this because the killer was just standing between both doors so me trying was pointless and made me take a break from the game. I am by far not a sore loser and even when I play killer I am known to let people go because I want everyone to have fun but never being able to get out as a survivor is not fun.
In the end I know its not right but the game WILL NEVER BE BALANCED. We can all either be upset by it and vent and waste time complaining or enjoy the game for what it is or find something else to play. Sorry if I am being mean I really do not mean to be.
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Moris are actually deceptively common, especially the ebony.
Survivors share items and addons in their bloodwebs and if they get a node that becomes an ultra rare item it can be a variety of things. BNP, Rainbow Map, Skeleton Key, Odd Bulb, Syringe and maybe something I forgot.
Meanwhile on killers it's often either a 100% chance or 50% chance that any UR node is an ebony mori. Huntress? That's either iri heads or a mori. Leatherface or Billy? That's a mori, since they have no UR addons. Some killers have more than one ultra rare, but no killer has as many ultra rares as survivors do. Before the best odds possible was 50% because the UR moonlight offering existed, but they're gone now of course.
I do think the skeleton key and dull key should sorta change roles for starters though. Make the dull key the key that lasts for a long time but don't let it open the hatch, and make the skeleton key have the 5 seconds of charge if it's gonna keep the hatch opening ability (which at least one of them will, because there's hatch-related achievements) even if it's changed in some way to require a channel to open the hatch or something.
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*Killer main, Killer main, protecting something bad in the game*
*It's unhealthy, it's not so smart, I'm singing now*
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if you are going to make the point of winning the match because EVERYONE can get out the hatch then maybe you need to remember that for everyone to get out the hatch ALL 5 gens need to be completed. I’m sorry but if you haven’t sacrificed 1 person by the time ALL gens are done then the survivors deserve to escape and they would probably get out the exit gates if not the hatch anyway.
green mori, you can use any time on anyone that you’ve already hooked once. Hatch isn’t instant for survivors. survivors have to wait the whole game and then find the hatch if they are all going to escape and generally they would have to be all together.
with saying all that, I’m personally not against the green mori, ebony however, is in my opinion OP.
I just don’t understand why people think that keys are an “instant” win for ALL survivors.
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Pink key does it's job all I play is killer and it doesn't bother me saying a key is broken is like saying and one hit thing for a killer is broken instead of crying about a key cry about bad map design,swf, and or the surv running away
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The only feature I would change on the Key is remove it from chest spawns.
If a Survivor plans to escape via hatch, they should weigh up whether or not to risk bringing a key rather than lucking out.
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So you think being able to instantly escape in front of the killer with 2-3 survivors if fine? There is literally no actual counter play for keys right now without franklins but no one should have to run a perk to counter something like a certain item that may or may not be brought into a trial and found in it. Unless you down the key holder away from hatch that survivor will escape 100% of the time along with any other nearby survivor. the hatch itself is not hard to find and gets safer the more gens get completed since the killer can't afford to go to dead parts of the map in case someone is looking for the hatch.
the objective as a survivor is to escape, there are two means for this, finishing all 5 gens and opening a gate or escaping by hatch. so why is it that you can ignore your entire objective halfway through the game and look in the area's with non complete gens for the hatch, find it, and than gather the others to escape. As a solo that's semi hard but people will see that you have a key and follow you, as a group(swf) that's incredibly easy to do. Now using the hatch when your the last person is fine since you can't really do gens but escaping with 3 people in an instant is defiantly not ok.
So please tell me why it's a bad idea with something other than your biased opinion, you know why it would be unhealthy because i can't see this as worse than instant one sided escapes that most of this community also see's as unfair. If the hatch spawns far from the remaining gens nothing changes, if it's nearby the killer can try to stop it like he should be able to, and survivors can't just body block the killer after a save to the hatch and then escape with everyone. Escaping should involve risks, it should not be instant, safe, or easy. This idea would solve all of that.
edit: before anyone responds, this is not about mori's. i know they are broken as well but keys are more common and can be found in a trial. If keys get reworked than i do agree that mori's should too so both sides are happy but like i said this is not and never was about mori's.
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keys are still more common in a trial since 1 of 4 survivors can bring a key or it can be found in a chest. meanwhile the killer has to decide if he wants to bring a mori and if he doesn't than no mori will happen in a trial unless they are using one of two perks. It should also be noted that swf groups love having 1 person bring a key into a game and solo's also like to bring keys so they don't have to fully rely on their team to escape. So while you are right that on an individual level getting a mori for killers is more common, keys are still more commonly used in a trial where it can be found or brought in by 1 of 4 survivors.
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What IF they actually did?
No player earns the ability to reduce the conditions needed for kills/escapes because the Key and the Mori fundamentally make the end goal of either side easier (either from the start or out of nowhere in the middle of the game if it's a chest Key) with zero trade-off. If anything, it's the other way around: Keys and Moris fundamentally deny the respective opposing side a fair chance at succeeding and stack the game heavily against them with no trade-off.
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If the game is balanced around 2 escaping and 2 dying then the game will obviously go to endgame, which means every game or so the gens should all be popped, which means it's not the killer's fault if the gens get popped. The devs even stated that 1-2 gens should be done in the first couple minutes. So that means in 2ish minutes 2 gens get popped and one guy goes on hook. 3 gens left, 1 hook and now assuming the killer goes into a chase immediately after that they will waste a decent 30-60 seconds on the second guy. The first guy is unhooked, and that means while all that happened the 4th guy is doing a gen. One more gen pops soon after and the killer has 2 hooks and 2 gens left. Now the killer finds the first hooked survivor and downs him too, which means he moris him. But that guy and his unhooker were on a gen. So this means one more gen pops. Now we have one guy dead, one guy on second hook and 2 guys never hooked with one gen left. But oh no! There was a key and at 3 survivors the hatch is spawned so they all get out. Guess the killer got outplayed.
This scenario is a rank one game with optimal survivors, they loop the broken loops and leave the killer stuck in a mindless m1. The killer can't abandon chase because the survivor will hop on a gen and the killer will lose all their time searching for a new one, who will loop just as well. On most maps it takes either one hit, a sprint burst or decent tiles to get into the main building.
My point is keys are better than moris because moris only work on bad survivors. Keys work on any skilled killer no matter what. Not to mention a skeleton key with duration and the killer aura addon is ten times deadlier than a mori. Legit has no downsides or counterplay. The killer doesnt even know you have it either.
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Seriously guys? You can basically take the keys out of the game if you're paying attention in the lobby. If you see a key in a lobby put on Franklin's demise it's that simple. You see a key in the lobby go after that survivor first. usually survivors who bring in keys use the weave ring so they won't lose it when they die meaning, it's taken out of the game the minute they're killed. People don't bring keys into every game and we don't have to 4k every game just because we're playing killer. We usually get more bp as the killer even when we lose than the survivors get if they escape. There are plenty of counters to the key. There is no way to counter Mori. It just seems like a lot of killers come in to these forums and whine just because they don't get 4k every time. they because they complain about my balance or the mechanics of the game. Blame it on someone else. If it was so easy for Killers to get 4k in every game, survivors would stop playing. If I were a survivor I would certainly stop playing. Kindergarten should have taught you but that don't have to win everytime you play...
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I just made a full rework post on this idea if you want to check it out, it goes along with a lot of things you said you don't like. I wouldn't recommend that the killer can grab survivors out of hatch because that would make hatch stand offs very favorable for the killer but in my idea the killer can grab survivors trying to open the hatch.
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Key is balanced because swf can use it to escape with their friend.
The feeling of swf is fxxking important in this game.😏
When there is no killers in the game, there will be non-player killer.
The dev just wants to get more money from swf.
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if keys are unbalanced, so are moris.
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So this entire post its for the keys.. An ítem thats rare to see.. Yeah now with tome you will see more of course, blame devs to put some stupid quests. I have about 1300 hours ingame and i think its the second time i use a key, and its not that common to find one in a match, some said moris are more balanced.. I think its way easier to see moris than a key and all you need is one hook, easy 30 seconds to 1 min 3 vs 1. Exact same as keys that with every one alive its 5 gens.. Yeah ofc
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I agree on Ps4 the Pink Mori is played a ton. I have tons of them on all my killers especially got a bunch during last years winter event gift boxes.
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You already read it.
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Yes definetly. It is just the same with all the other key nerf posts. It is just a minority of bad players swarming into the forums after bad games. Like all the rant posts.
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I guess I am mistaken. When I first started playing, sometimes it felt like everyone just left through the hatch mid-game. My error.
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I had this happen to me. The worst part was that they completely didn’t deserve the win. I mean, they three genned themselves on disturbed ward! How does that even happen? They all did terribly and one of them spammed lockers for the killer’s attention to get a head on stun against the spirit, who can just appear in front of the locker and press the button to open it before she can even react. It was so frustrating.
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Oh, It's fine. The Hatch always spawns for everyone after all gens are done. -1 Gen for every dead survivor. The only thing they changed over time, was that the hatch now spawns for the last person without doing a gen because of the EGC etc.
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If they had 4 gens done, it's not like they weren't doing their objective, and not to mention that the most likely key you'll find doesn't open the hatch. If you want unfair, I just started using a new nurse build for when I don't want to have to pay attention. It uses rancor and insidious; I can hang out in the exit gates and even if my obsession has played a perfect game, I still get to one shot him and kill him by my own hands without having to hook him or anything. I'm glad I haven't gotten too much salt about it, but it is a great example of getting rewarded for doing nothing.
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Keys and Mori need to be moved to Kill your friends, no one should be skipping over their objectives.
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dude I have had many matches where I had everyone 2 hooked, one dead, and the other 3 found hatch in front of me with a key. it really shouldn't be "well the killer is right there but I have a win button and he can't do anything about it soo". 5 seconds isn't long if you get it even with the 5 second penalty good on ya, you were smart and used it away from me. if I'm right there you shouldn't just be allowed to win automatically.
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many people HAVE pointed out killer issues as well. I'm a killer main personally, and I do think red moris need a nerf. I agreed ruin needed a nerf (not the way the did it but still). the only thing people bring up I don't agree with is Noed nerfs. Killers need nerfs in certain areas. We understand. but survivors do as well.
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Correct me if i'm wrong but i'm pretty sure you can still close hatch before all 3 survivors get hatch. they can't all jump in at the exact same time.
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funny thing is that when they nerfed ruin they said it was a "low risk high reward" thing...even if it was an hex...
about keys that let people negate the challenge nobody has spent a word...
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If all 4 survivors escaped through hatch than 9 times out of 10 you were going to lose anyway considering all 5 gens need to be done for it to even appear
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I think people don't realize how bad solo is. Keys and hatch are extremely necessary. Majority of the time I get paired up with idiots who I cant communicate with. Also killers can run Franklin's to counter a survivor bringing a key in game. Removing keys and hatch would really screw over those of us who actually do the objective but still have to take an L because the rest of the team are playing like idiots just waiting to get picked off
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You killers are just cry babys i dont get it? They broke ruin hex broke sabotage broke the tool boxes gave u guys a end game and u guys are still not happy? Take keys away only 1 person can leave hatch whats wrong with u guys. Why dont it just b killer vs 1 survivor with no add on's no perks would u guys b happy then? No! U guys would still cry what about 1 survivor that can only crawl? Lol u get my point STOP! ALREADY U KILLERS CRY COMPLAIN TO MUCH IT MAKES ME SICK GROSS... Y DONT THEY TAKE NO ONE AWAY AND BBQ N CHILIE? YES DEVS MAKE IT HAPPEN U KILLED IT 4 US SURVIVORS RETURN THE FAVOR ITS ONLY FAIR.
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THIS IDEA IS WACK 4 REAL
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KEY CHANGE? THEN NO ONE BBQ N CHILIE CHANGE SOUNDS FAIR?
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I think there should be an activation time like 10 seconds or so and the killer gets alerted to it being done so if the survivors actually want to use it as an escape they have to protect the key user and if the key user stops at any point it resets the progress
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The only reason you see so many keys atm is because there is a challenge to use 2 keys on the hatch in the current tome. Besides, they still need to complete enough gens to outweigh the number of remaining survivors which is still them having to do objectives, if all 3 survivors are alive they still have to do all then gens, just not open the gate. I'm sure the amount of keys you see will decrease after the tome, just keep gen pressure on until then (pop/overcharge/than). I actually tend to die more often than not if I have a key 😂
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They are also meant to pack a punch and be extremely powerful. Hence their rarity.
They both work as intented, even if you have your reasons not to like it. They aren't suppose to be balanced because they never were to begin with.
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That's a terrible reason for them to be unbalanced.
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I like keys, but I think they should only be able to be used under certain circumstances.
For example:
If I'm in a match where the killer has closed the hatch and the gates have powered up, but they are so close to each other that there is no chance I am going to be able to get either of them open I will happily use a key if I have one. If I think I have even a small chance of getting one of the doors open I would much rather try to do that for the challenge, but I have no problem whatsoever using a key if the game is going to put the gates so close together that my chances of opening one went from challenging to impossible.
There may be other circumstances too, but that's the one where I occasionally use a key.
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so pretty much every game. the exit gates always spawn close together. really the only maps where the gates are far apart are the game, lery's and hawkins
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If you see a key just bring a mori and tunnel. Otherwise accept that you may lose to an item and try not to take this game to seriously. Keys are only really bad when multiple escape anyway since you can still pip otherwise assuming the game went on long enough.
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They are close most of the time. Occasionally though, they are REALLY close. Had one earlier where the killer stood between the two gates and when you approached either one you were in the terror radius. That's the situation I would use a key if I had one. Being able to open the gate in that situation goes from being challenging to being impossible.
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