Why do SWF/SWFC players think it is balanced?
One question, do you think a solo player has the same benefits as a SWF player on comms?
If the answer is Yes please explain, if No why do you think BHVR are ignoring this?
I play in an SWFC and my rank rocketed, we realise we don't have to stupid plays when someone is on the hook and the killer is camping.
I asked a streamer if they thought about not playing a perk slot or not playing meta perks and she just laughed...
Am I missing something, can someone explain from BHVR?
I'm not asking to remove SWF or buff solo players, I'm just asking why is this allowed and don't it affect match making with reducing the fun playing killers?
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No. The amount of benefits make SWFs easier to play than solo. Solo you actual need good players to be that organised.
BHVR ignores this ######### because they have no idea how to fix it.
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Of course it's an advantage, because the information you can share with others via communication definitely has an impact on the outcome of the match. More than in any other online game I have played. Simply knowing approximately where the killer is, if he is chasing someone, and the real biggy, being able to organize who goes for an unhook and who stays at gens repairing them. I honestly don't see how anyone could deny this information being helpful and advantagous.
The only way to properly improve this imbalance is to give survivors ways to receive this information without comms, and then balance the killers around the buffed solo survivors. The most common suggestions are adding kindred to base kit, and giving survivors an UI indication of who is being chased.
The devs would never be able to completely remove any form of imbalance that voice comms create in this game, but by adding enough informtation to survivors base kit, the devs could theoretically minimize the imbalance between solo and swf survivors very well.
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Perks like kindred etc show that information alone is worth a perk. With comms the amount of info you can give is uncontested. Where the killer is, what gens need to be done, what area isn't safe, who needs to be saved etc. SWFs with comms can ignore perks like knockout and ruin abilities like traps made by hag and trapper.
The game isn't balanced around SWF but the devs seem to be doing stuff like buffing sabo which is only making it worse.
I don't think SWF should be removed from the game but lets say the game knows you've played the game above a certain threshold. If you're in an SWF after playing the game for a while already then I think there should be some sort of debuffs.
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Most people play swf because they're not good at the game, simple as that. And they get huge advantages so there's also that. Most people don't have what it takes to make the best out of a bad situation so they just bring their crutch buddies with em and play ultra sweaty. Swf has essentially killed casual gameplay.
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Asking if SWF is balanced in the title and then asking if we think solo has the same ability as SWF are two different conversations.
Are you making the claim that solo is balanced and that SWF should be on solo level? Because I can tell you in a match with 4 solos, the game is killer sided and not balanced either.
My honest opinion on balance? Two 2-man SWFs. Anything less is killer sided and anything more is survivor sided. Every survivor needs to have a least one teammate who they can communicate with and know that someone is coming to save them and everyone isn't on gens (without the requirement of running kindred and wasting a perk slot).
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You'd rather have two conversations about an excellent example why SWF isn't balanced?
You believe 2x2 SWF is balanced because the team needs to be organised without sacrificing a perk slot...
You realise if the killer kills your other swf that they still play a part in verbally spectating what the other two randoms are doing thus improving the information given to you?
This game is balanced on solo survivors, the developers introduced SWF with no nerfs to it. To try and balance it with SWFs you must reduce those perk slots you mentioned or increase killer perk slots with a buff to solo survivors with something like kindred.
Honestly the best solution is to nerf SWFs perk slots as it would start to become more crazy if buffs to solo survivor and killer happened with more balancing issues.
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No, it isn't the same. You'll find few people who actually disagree with that. Per your second question, taking the multiplayer concept of playing with your friends and having a good time that starts with "hey, ya'll want to play dbd?" would massacre this game's playerbase. (though it would increase the number of killer mains, lol) I know you didn't say to take it out, but some people have aggressively suggested it. I wouldn't mind in the slightest if they had proximity chat or something that alters the current state of SWF.
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Oh look, another SWF-Thread. How useful.
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I think it certainly isn't balanced around SWF but SWF have it easier, at the same time when I'm playing in a swf with rank 1-4 we often lose cause we just mess around and goof off.
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One, people play this game with friends. It's also stated to be a primary reason why they play too.
Two, comms can never not be a thing. Party chat is built into consoles as well so you can't ban third party systems. It's in no way enforceable either.
Three, public comms is a terrible terrible idea. People like to have squawking parakeets or crying babies at all times. Oh and a fan on high settings during a tornado while they struggle with a crinkley bag of chips.
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Solo players can be in a worst position as you don't get information that swfs get without perks and the like--who is the killer, where is the killer, I just got chased off this gen, this gen is nearly done...go run for the exit, the hatch is over by the killer shack, etc, but I have been wiped clean with my four man swf by the killer and at times I have been able to bully a killer right into the ground as a solo. Yes, I'd much rather have a swf team of all red ranks and face some poor sap at rank 17, but it has been very rare that all of us on my swf team (mostly we are all purple) have all lived, because remember swf teams also tend to take extreme risks in order to save their friends when a solo would view self-preservation as the higher goal and just leave...not every swf squad is Seal Team 6, though many killers tend to want us to think that they are.
And one more thing, plenty of swfs are just two people which greatly reduce the effectiveness, not all swfs are 4-man on coms which means they are just basically solos really and sometimes there is a huge difference between the two rank wise...one can be a rank 7 and his friend a rank 20 and the killer is a rank 13 which actually pushes the advantage to the killer. On my smurf account I have a friend who is a rank 20 and we have played a few times as I have been trying to teach him somethings such as having we'll make it when you never unhook anyone or heal anyone is probably not the best perk to use as your only perk slot and since you blow gens left and right why not use technician instead? In none of our games together has he ever survived...this included some trashy rank 19 killer knowing he was new tunneling him into the ground--his only kill btw.
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Originally this game was solo only, so no
No one said they have to be removed, it just needs to be balanced, and its possible.
You know, there is this thing called "mute button". I onow this is high-tech stuff, but I think you can do it
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He's saying a lot of people say they only play survivor because they can play with their friends, not that the developers said that. I'm an example of that.
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they cant just delete swf that will kill the game all they can do is buff all killers to a ceratin extend that it wont matter if it were a swf or not but they re not gonna do that
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Originally there were also infinites and no gen regression and hooks were sabotaged permanently. Your point?
You're balancing around who? The swfs? Then I'll always have to be in a coordinated group. Public will be no more.
Oh gee a mute button something I don't need in a private chat. Big brain here. You eat white cheddar popcorn?
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But these things were REMOVED. SWF was ADDED. But well, whatever, it doesnt matter
Nerf SWF, buff solo. This is balancing
You were the one who were complaining about people screaming in chat. Just mute them
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Interesting people reposting usual stuff not being talked about eg saying no to removing SWFs?!?
SWFs are a money spinner but they are also killing the killers which is killing the game, balance BHVR, remember!
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Have a really difficult game where you cant really find anybody and in the endgame results nobody has spine chill?
Most likely a swf using coms.
No bond needed. No empathy needed. No small game needed as long as one finds the totem. No premonition needed.
So this is how and why a lot of them run BT, DS, DH, Andrenaline. They can afford to lose the info perks and focus on second chance perks to increase their chances to prolong the game and possible getting another chase or lose them entirely.
Only way to solve killers' sometime inability to deal with swf is to make him so overpowered that it is a serious race to get the gens done and not just an M1 holding simulator like it is now. To make killer in a 1v1 situational so strong that the surv can only last 25 seconds at the most once found is the only weay to deal with this problem. This is a 4v1 and survs are able to hold off the killer all game if you let them. They are too strong.
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Face it man, the Entity isn't feeding of the survivors anymore now its feeding off the Killers.
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Did I say I wanted to delete SWFs?
No?
Then what are you talking about?
Post edited by Mc_Harty on0 -
Hell yeah its advantage for a lot of simple reasons
- Communications between 4 solos vs a SWF group have a great difference with solos being only able to... point and hand signal to come here? and STW teams being able to fully communicate through mics.
- Groups can come up with people who do pacific jobs to help out the team while solos have to make them on the spot in the lobby.
- Perks. My god the perks. SWF groups mostly know what they are all running before they enter a match but solos have no communication between all 4 of there perk slots and what there perk build is all about.
Hopefully they help us killers out with all the SWF soon but until then the queue time just got longer
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Yes swf was added. It's also now the main reason why a lot of people play. You purposely being obtuse?
When you buff solo, you ALSO buff swf because they have the same tools. But you can't buff them to the same levels as "knows where the killer is at all times". You can say buff solo all you want but it takes all the guesswork out of the game if they give totem counters and an orange dorito on top of the killers head. Then they might as well give all the killers guns and we know how that worked out.
Giving in-game voice comms is redundant because people already have it. Muting everyone is redundant when I already have that.
What tactical information are people going to give me when they're being facecamped or waiting for all their teammates to die so they can get hatch? The abuse will outweigh the advantages.
Alright, here's the compromise.
This wouldn't be an issue if they kept the two separate. One matchmaking with comms and allows swf, and another that mode that is randomized with no comms. Randoms get base game, swf get special modifiers that effect the match outcome. I'd be happy with that.
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SWF was added as people used to try to queue with friends
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Oh come on... you make it sound as if adding SWF was ever up for debate - which it wasn't. It was planned from the very beginning but couldn't get released on the official release date but not even 1.5 months later. And even then it was buggy as hell.
And even then a minority was crying about SWF. And even then the same arguments for and against SWF were brought up. It's a debate going on for almost 4 years now and it's getting so incredibly boring.
Edit:
@Hoodied SWF was planned all along.
TL'DR: SWF was announced even before DbD released in June 2016.
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Yes! And revert the changes to DS, SC and sabo'ing hooks, too!
No, but for real: what part in my post do you understand as: "stop talking about swf people complain 2 much xD"? I merely stated that a) SWF was planned from the very beginning, b) the same arguments are being brought up for almost 4 years which concluded in c) it's getting boring.
I didn't claim SWF was fine, I didn't claim SWF was unbalanced. And feeling boring towards hearing the same arguments over and over and over and over and over again I deem a natural reaction. What about you?
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Yes, but I didn't say people should stop complaining. I think there's quite the difference between saying that something is getting boring and telling people to stop doing something.
Complain all you want; the more you complain the more you incite the Devs to do something. Doesn't change my personal feeling of it getting boring.
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Well what I wantad to say was that SWF was broken ever since it was added, and NOTHING was done to balance it, even though they have clear advantages.
Well obviously. The poont is to buff solo MORE than SWF. For example: Kindred. This perk is COMPLETELY useless for SWFC, as they have that info already, while it helps solo a lot. We need to find more things like this and buff them. We cant make them equal, but we can make tham close. Well obviously killers will need buffs too ig we buff surviviors, that goes without saying.
Well, the point is that ingame voice comms can be used between randoms, and maybe some SWf wouldnt bother to use Discord if they had ingame chat. If you dont like it then you could just disable it like the endgame chat.
This is true, thats why killers should get buffs too. The problem is that SWFC ALREADY have that. IMO it should be a proximity chat that killer can also hear. Not that I am a fan of this solution, I think that would be a bit too far myself. Just saying its possible.
I have some balance ideas:
- Let solo see other survivior perks.
- Allow killer to see who is in SWF once the match starts.
- Give some debuffs to SWF lobbies, example: max 2 copies of any perk in the SWF lobby, max 1 red/purple item per SWF lobby, something like this.
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In conclusion nobody denies SWF is far better than playing solo survivor.
Why then aren't the Devs balancing this?
I've seen someone bring chased and gens pop strangely as the guy was about to go down and someone stood on the gates ready.
Can Devs answer why this isn't being fixed?
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People have always proposed the idea of having less perks the more people you have in your SWF.
3 perks for 2 people, 2 perks for 3 people and 1 perk for a full 4 man SWF.
You'll still be playing with friends.
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I can only think then that BHVR call it balancing when they buff or nerf s perk but are just trying to keep things fresh for existing players!!!
SWF whether like it or loathe it I can see why it should and shouldn't be in the game but it is unfair on the fun for people who play killer.
You can't have the same spec/slots with SWF as solo, it's unfair on the solo survivor and killer player base... why BHVR and why aren't you addressing this in your stream discussions as it's hardly going to go away whether old or new to the game
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As solo survivor, i dont care about buffing me so i can play as SWF Voice Comm, cause I do well as I am. But as killer, i do care about how SWF Voice Comm handicaps killers as much as a cheat would do, and buffing solo is not a good idea. But as a player in general, i recognize that SWF is a thing that is cool for ppl that like to play with friends.
But, well, there is a loooot of survivors that I know that just cant play alone. Why that? Cause then they lose the Supreme Perk: SWF Voice Comm, and are forced to actually read the match rythm and make decisions. The thrill of "do I stop the gen to go for a save or is there already a saviour on the way?", "wait, someone just popped a gen up there, so ones close and the chances are he will save so i can stay on gen", or whatever decision based on data given by the match itself, not by a Voice Comm... well, they dont wanna think that long, just easy cake "decisions" all the time.
I just despise playing in SWF... only do when a friend asks for.
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Does anyone know BHVRs stance on balancing, I can't seem to find them talking about this?
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@Mc_Harty prohibit voice teamspeak or something or deprive SWF rank up :D
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I mean, the only way SWF on Comms really breaks killers' backs is if they're good at the game - I've been against SWF groups on comms who were bad, so I guess it depends on the group?
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I completely understand why SWF cant be removed from the game. From a business point of view, it's a no brainer. $$$
I have more fun playing with friends in any game. The interactions with friends while playing dbd are by far the best moments I have had playing as a survivor in this game.
As a killer main SWF is busted at the red ranks. Great Solo survivors are the most skilled players in this game. They give me all I can handle. Yet the majority of their SWF counter parts escape far more often but dont hold a candle to solo in terms of true game skill. Even a SWF duo with 2 solos tips the balance.
Time and mistakes are the deciding factor in the outcome of this game. As with anything in life , the better the communication and coordination. The better your results will be at achieving your task. As well as greatly reducing MISTAKES while performing the task.
I dont care what solution the community or devs decide is best to address this issue. I just hope it is addressed sometime this year.
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Or... maybe they just want to play with their friends?
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swf broken might I add.
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So what is the question exactly?
You don't ask to remove swf, but at the same time you want them to not allow it? What?
What do you want?
And yeah , why won't you get laughed at? You say silly stuff. Why would people handicap themselves if they play with friends? Rarely see killers who don't go full tryhard vs solos and wipe the floor with them. Back before ruin got nerfed you'd see every killer use it all the time and destroy solo survivors without caring if it's "fair" or not. Even now a lot of solo teams get 4k'd. Do you think THAT is ok but swf is not because you don't kill all of them every time unlike with solos? Hypocrisy.
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So , OP seems to think that solos are balanced. Swf isn't.
How does he know that solos are "balanced"?
Swf was to be added to the game from the start. They didn't think to add it after people asked. So they pretty much f'd up with it form the beginning. SO how does OP know that the solos ba;ance wasn't f'd up either? Lol. Yeah , this thread is just more complaining about having a challenge and not ez 4k.
How about you go play a game that actually is competitive? Pretty sure you wouldn't win there all the time either. What will you do then? Go complain about it? xD
Actually , I wouldn't be surprised to see some crybabies here complain about random stuff that the devs have to fix even in a game like CSGO or overwatch or something.
On second thought , wait. These people probably never played a proper competitive game where both sides are balanced. If they did they would know that getting a win every game is not something they are entitled to.
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What interests me is the internal "Beckham" interview where everyone knows the questions and have rehearsed their lies and half truths, the rest are easy questions.
I remember hearing people say it isn't cheating because a member of BHVR staff said so... yet... lookup with word cheating and it mentions an "unfair advantage".
New perk arrived today from BHVR specifically for the toxic SWFs, how nice.
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