Generator regression should be much faster.
During the Q and A the devs stated that generators regress at about 0.25 charges per second. In effect this means that for every 1 second a survivor spends on a generator it takes 4 seconds for a killer to remove that progress after they kick it. In total if a gen is at 99% it takes about 5 minutes to drop it back to zero compared to the piddly 80 seconds it takes for a survivor to repair it. This should change.
The devs have made it clear they have no intention to increase gen times. This is fair and i understand that decision. No one likes longer gens so if the fundamental nature of how gens progress are not going to be changed then the killer should be given more counter play in this regard. In my personal opinion generator progression/regression should be a 1:1 ratio. The reason being is because gen regression is just so terribly slow that kicking it can be almost pointless. The survivors can undo a full minute of regression in 15 seconds at base. This does not bring into account tool boxes, perks, and other survivors that speed up the process.
With a 1:1 ratio the killer has a good chance of wiping out almost all progression on a gen if no one is nearby to tap it giving him real control over the flow of the match rather than having the survivors dictate it. With how fast gens can get done and with the devs not really looking into adding a MANDATORY secondary objective this should be a thing.
I want to know your guys realistic opinion on this. Given the current state do YOU survivor mains and killer mains alike think giving the killer a parallel counter play to game progression a good step towards making the game more interesting?
Please, let me know what you think and keep it civil. All i want is a reasonable discussion.
Comments
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@Dudddd said:
Pop Goes the weaselIts a great perk but only shaves off 25% of the gen. I am looking at the 1:1 gen regression being a base ability for all killers to give them more control over the gens and hopefully reduce the necessity of ruin over the long run.
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@SadonicShadow
If all the ideas that they mentioned in the Q & A then I do not think it is something that need to be added anytime soon.However buff killer perks that does things for damage generators. Anywho I would like to see how the gameplay would look with upcoming changes. Survivors increased healing speed and self care affecting other survivors, killers hexes being more difficult to find, the end game suggestion, etc. Hopefully these things could be enough in order for the killer to apply more pressure to survivors(I know these things are not confirmed but still it would be nice)
Also being able to sabotage hooks would be another objective. This is great because less people working on gens.
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When I mentioned the timer kind of ruining it they said they had some potential ideas for it.I was thinking a token based perk. For example-each hook gives a token up to 5 maximum-each token grants 10/15/20 % instant regression.-at max tokens a complete generator can be reset to 0% (not possible if gates are powered).-all available tokens must be used at once and cannot be spread around multiple gens1
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I'm more in favor of letting them try the longer healing first before we talk about touching the gens right now.
We have plenty of tools to slow down gens right now as it is.
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@FrenziedRoach said:
I'm more in favor of letting them try the longer healing first before we talk about touching the gens right now.We have plenty of tools to slow down gens right now as it is.
I agree. Lets see how that goes first but my gut tells me it wont be enough. If it turns out to not be enough would you be in support of a 1:1 parallel progression/regression or in general is it a bad idea?
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If I'm not mistaken, Overcharge makes gens regress faster. Considering this, I don't think that the gen regression time should be chaged.
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@TessaTheDeath said:
If I'm not mistaken, Overcharge makes gens regress faster. Considering this, I don't think that the gen regression time should be chaged.Overcharge simply applies a difficult skill check to the generator where if it is failed it blows the gen and regresses it by a small percentage. It does not effect the overall regression of the gen while it is kicked.
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@SadonicShadow said:
Overcharge simply applies a difficult skill check to the generator where if it is failed it blows the gen and regresses it by a small percentage. It does not effect the overall regression of the gen while it is kicked.
Indeed, my bad.
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Finally a possible change for Surveillance!. While generators are regressing, they regress at 120/140/160%2
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@SadonicShadow said:
@FrenziedRoach said:
I'm more in favor of letting them try the longer healing first before we talk about touching the gens right now.We have plenty of tools to slow down gens right now as it is.
I agree. Lets see how that goes first but my gut tells me it wont be enough. If it turns out to not be enough would you be in support of a 1:1 parallel progression/regression or in general is it a bad idea?
1:1 is going to be way too powerful - especially when combined with the tools we currently have.
I wouldn't go faster than 1:4 myself.
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Upping it to 0.5 per second would be more reasonable and 1 per second with a Perk.
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I don't understand people who say that killers should equip x y perks.
When killers try to get their first hook 3 gen pops up. What should they do? Hex:Ruin
Some window placements are really bad and not fair. What should they do? Bamboozle
There are so many pallets in the maps. What should they do? Enduring/brutal strength
None of the killers except for the doc have the ability to locate survivors. What should they do? Whispers and BBQ.
Perks are not the solution for common problems and this is true for both the killer side and survivor side.
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But see, they will never change the base time for anything any more.
All they will do is make a perk that can have that effect, so then everyone can just say "Run X Perk"
Which is a complete bullshit answer. Band-aid perks won't fix anything.
Looking at you Pop-Goes...Cause why change values to be fair when "There's a perk for it" smh
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I think 1:1 mayby not that good idea but at least 05:1 will be fine.I kick gen when i dont have nothing to do becose imo this is pointles.Surv got that dmg done in few seconds but i waste time on kick gen.0
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@MojoTheFabulous said:
Upping it to 0.5 per second would be more reasonable and 1 per second with a Perk.Perhaps 0.5 per second would be good at base and then maybe Brutal Strength could make it 1:1?
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Just watch when surv start cry if that happend.SadonicShadow said:@MojoTheFabulous said:
Upping it to 0.5 per second would be more reasonable and 1 per second with a Perk.Perhaps 0.5 per second would be good at base and then maybe Brutal Strength could make it 1:1?
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@SadonicShadow said:
@MojoTheFabulous said:
Upping it to 0.5 per second would be more reasonable and 1 per second with a Perk.Perhaps 0.5 per second would be good at base and then maybe Brutal Strength could make it 1:1?
That be perfect.
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Why not just have the progression drop a little after you kick a gen? kinda like pop goes the weasel but less extreme. It would give a nice little nudge to the regression instead of just kicking it and then a survivor touches it immediately afterwards, basically meaning you kicking the gen did NOTHING.
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You know the gen regression can be a nuisance for killers but wouldn't it be fairer if working on a gen the heartbeat turns off so you have to work as a team on them otherwise your grabbed and dragged away0
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@Delfador said:
I don't understand people who say that killers should equip x y perks.When killers try to get their first hook 3 gen pops up. What should they do? Hex:Ruin
Some window placements are really bad and not fair. What should they do? Bamboozle
There are so many pallets in the maps. What should they do? Enduring/brutal strength
None of the killers except for the doc have the ability to locate survivors. What should they do? Whispers and BBQ.
Perks are not the solution for common problems and this is true for both the killer side and survivor side.
Pick your poison. Perks are supposed to help with your weaknesses not make you a God. As much as I love whispers, I've grown as a killer and don't rely on it as much as I used to, so now I can switch it to something else like Brutal Strength or Bamboozle.
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1:1 would be a bit ridiculous.
Theres no need to make the game even more of a gen simulator with the perks that are already available.
I'm all for extending game length with other objectives etc, doing anything else base that applies to generators is going in the wrong direction in my opinion.
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@Dudddd said:
Pop Goes the weaselThats the problem,the game shouldn't need band-aid fixes,do we really need to waste a perk slot because of that? forced to play a certain way,why don't just make the changes to the game itself?
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It should take more than just a teeny tap to end regression tbh. Like 2s on a gen minimum to begin repairs.I dunno about the regression speed, but I agree, it's lower than expected. If they're not adding secondary objectives, they should consider speeding up regression. It shouldn't be too oppressive, since Deja Vu is pretty good right now.3
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@SadonicShadow said:
@Dudddd said:
Pop Goes the weaselIts a great perk but only shaves off 25% of the gen. I am looking at the 1:1 gen regression being a base ability for all killers to give them more control over the gens and hopefully reduce the necessity of ruin over the long run.
I agree with you, but at the same time, I can't help but be concerned. Let's be real, a lot of killers at high ranks run Hex: Ruin because they want to slow the game down. Let's say you implement this buff to killers and now gens regress at the full speed. Who's to say that the majority of killers wouldn't keep bringing Hex: Ruin into their games? As a survivor main, I can't help but be concerned for the killers. You see, in the event that Hex: Ruin is played and not instantly found, upon discovering the hex most survivors will drop everything in a mad search to look for it. This leads to a complete lack of generator regression usually and as a subsequent result mass defeat. If too many four kills happen at certain ranks some survivors will not rise to the challenge and take to whining with data supporting the age-old claim of "Killers too OP" now present. This could lead to undue nerfs and potentially survivors leaving the game. While I understand that the appalling conditions killers used to have to endure drove many to abandon ship I sincerely feel that we need to preserve survivor numbers more. This is simply because you need 4 survivors to start a game and only one killer. I've played enough killer to know that current survivor supply =/= current killer lobby demand.
Honestly, they should buff it slowly. Add in a bit over time every three months with the patches. Perhaps then it will be more stable.
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I have solution for this!
Surveillance buff!
Unlocks potential in one's Aura reading ability. The last 3 regressing Generators' Auras are indicated in white to you until the survivor touch it.
Your surveillance regress generators 200/300/400% faster!1 -
Any time added to gen repair wouldn't work because that's the most boring part of the game for survivor. This is why the devs don't want to make it longer. If you want to add time to the game, and map redesign isn't in the picture any time soon, then perks/addon adjustment is the wayy to go. Like, Sloppy Butcher was a good change.
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That's absolutely ridiculous. You can remove a completed gen? #########. With 5 tokens there's a very good chance 1 and possibly 2 survivors are already dead. It would be stupid powerful to be able to undo a completed gen to 0 at that point in the game.gibblywibblywoo said:When I mentioned the timer kind of ruining it they said they had some potential ideas for it.I was thinking a token based perk. For example-each hook gives a token up to 5 maximum-each token grants 10/15/20 % instant regression.-at max tokens a complete generator can be reset to 0% (not possible if gates are powered).-all available tokens must be used at once and cannot be spread around multiple gens1 -
I don't think it should be a direct 1:1 ratio, I think 1:2 is fair though. 2 seconds of regression = 1 second of progression. That seems reasonable to me, only because it can be really REALLY frustrating as survivor to be doing a gen and constantly have the killer kick it over and over. If they have PGTW a 1:1 would be way too strong IMO.
I also think that a gen should require at least 5 charges of progression to stop the regression effect. This to prevent gen tapping as a means to counter regression. You'd have to actually work on the gen for a short time to keep your progress. They mentioned in the stream that they don't see a problem with a survivor tapping a gen during a chase, and that it's risky and very rare, but they are wrong. It's super easy to do and if done right is a very low risk, but it seriously hurts the killer even if the survivor only tapped the gen. I have done it and had it done to me, as killer it's a little silly a tiny tap can negate your kick entirely.
I also think they should make a deadzone for repairs on the first second, so when you hop on a gen to repair the first second you are repairing nets no progress. This would counter tapping as is done to get around Ruin or other skill check requirements. IMO that's an exploit and people that do it are scrubs.
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@brokedownpalace said:
gibblywibblywoo said:When I mentioned the timer kind of ruining it they said they had some potential ideas for it.
I was thinking a token based perk. For example
-each hook gives a token up to 5 maximum
-each token grants 10/15/20 % instant regression.
-at max tokens a complete generator can be reset to 0% (not possible if gates are powered).
-all available tokens must be used at once and cannot be spread around multiple gens
That's absolutely ridiculous. You can remove a completed gen? #########. With 5 tokens there's a very good chance 1 and possibly 2 survivors are already dead. It would be stupid powerful to be able to undo a completed gen to 0 at that point in the game.
This is the same as giving a perk like We're Gonna Live Forever the ability to ressurect a Survivor thats been sacrificied back into the game.
Completely ridiculous.
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@Peasant said:
@SadonicShadow said:
@Dudddd said:
Pop Goes the weaselIts a great perk but only shaves off 25% of the gen. I am looking at the 1:1 gen regression being a base ability for all killers to give them more control over the gens and hopefully reduce the necessity of ruin over the long run.
I agree with you, but at the same time, I can't help but be concerned. Let's be real, a lot of killers at high ranks run Hex: Ruin because they want to slow the game down. Let's say you implement this buff to killers and now gens regress at the full speed. Who's to say that the majority of killers wouldn't keep bringing Hex: Ruin into their games? As a survivor main, I can't help but be concerned for the killers. You see, in the event that Hex: Ruin is played and not instantly found, upon discovering the hex most survivors will drop everything in a mad search to look for it. This leads to a complete lack of generator regression usually and as a subsequent result mass defeat. If too many four kills happen at certain ranks some survivors will not rise to the challenge and take to whining with data supporting the age-old claim of "Killers too OP" now present. This could lead to undue nerfs and potentially survivors leaving the game. While I understand that the appalling conditions killers used to have to endure drove many to abandon ship I sincerely feel that we need to preserve survivor numbers more. This is simply because you need 4 survivors to start a game and only one killer. I've played enough killer to know that current survivor supply =/= current killer lobby demand.
Honestly, they should buff it slowly. Add in a bit over time every three months with the patches. Perhaps then it will be more stable.
I agree with what you have said especially regarding Hex: Ruin. If the game is lengthened in any way regardless of the means the contemporary Hex: Ruin will be Meta regardless. If there was say a 1:1 ratio applied to the regression and it appears to be effective at slowing the game and controlling the gens then Hex: Ruin would need to be looked at and adjusted and or reworked.
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There's something missing from the occasion here which is high mobility killers. The Nurse and Billy with better regressions would be the only killers played ever. This would be more so of an issue now since Hag's are playing at high ranks along with Trappers.
But if you put in too extreme of a gen regression then why play with anything but those 2 killers and then throw in map rng game over.
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I don't really like the idea of having 1:1 regression. MAYBE 0.5:1 would be ok.
In terms of tapping a gen to stop regression, I think we should used failed skill checks as an example. A failed skill check stops progress for 3 seconds, so it should take 3 seconds of repair to stop gen regression.
During those 3 seconds of repair you can still get skill checks, but the gen does not regress further. If you stop before the 3 seconds are up, the gen begins regressing again.
Going further, give Ruin, Lullaby, and Overcharge extra time for this requirement. Say 0/1/2 extra seconds on failed skill checks and to stop gen regression. I don't think this bonus time should stack, though. 9 seconds of repair just to stop regression would be annoying and unfun.0 -
@iceman2kx said:
@Delfador said:
I don't understand people who say that killers should equip x y perks.When killers try to get their first hook 3 gen pops up. What should they do? Hex:Ruin
Some window placements are really bad and not fair. What should they do? Bamboozle
There are so many pallets in the maps. What should they do? Enduring/brutal strength
None of the killers except for the doc have the ability to locate survivors. What should they do? Whispers and BBQ.
Perks are not the solution for common problems and this is true for both the killer side and survivor side.
Pick your poison. Perks are supposed to help with your weaknesses not make you a God. As much as I love whispers, I've grown as a killer and don't rely on it as much as I used to, so now I can switch it to something else like Brutal Strength or Bamboozle.
Sorry, the forum didn't notify me about your answer so my answer is a little bit late.
I am a survivor main and generally play survivor. I can use whichever perk I want to use when I play survivor and it doesn't change anything for me. Survivors' perks do not help my weaknesses but make me stronger. For example I use Bond, windows of opportunity, WGLF and borrowed time and only windows of opportunity is useful for me.
When I play killer I am forced to use hex ruin all the time. I need at least one tracking perk and I generally use BBQ for that because of extra bloodpoints. You need at least one perk that makes pallets less annoying so you need to choose either enduring or brutal strength etc. There are other problems that can force you to use some perks.
If what you said was true for both sides and perks were for helping our weaknesses, It would make sense. However, this game doesn't give much choice to you when you play as a killer.
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No it should not be faster.
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I had the same ideaIhatelife said:I have solution for this!
Surveillance buff!
Unlocks potential in one's Aura reading ability. The last 3 regressing Generators' Auras are indicated in white to you until the survivor touch it.
Your surveillance regress generators 200/300/400% faster!0 -
@Grey87 said:
No it should not be faster.Please elaborate as to why you feel this way.
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