If survivors just throw down pallets...
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You have a valid point in the ebony mori, it often makes survivors more skittish and scared of getting killed early. But if you read the OP's original complaint his problem is that survivors are playing too safe already, so it's hard to see how bringing a mori would help his problem, survivors would play even more safe against him than they do now.
As far as the shroud of separation (the thing which makes them spawn not together) I'd argue in the current balance of the game this is a detriment more than a help, particularly depending on which killer you are playing. Separated survivors means up to 3 could be working on generators while you are chasing the first one you find, and three generators can pop after one chase. I'm much more inclined to prefer survivors be stacked together on one generator, that way when I disrupt them, they all need to vacate the area to another generator or risk getting hit by returning to the one they were on right away.
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I'm tired of hearing that excuse
Will there be times where you just get merked by an SWF sweaty group on comms playing super safe? Possibly, but at worst each game you can only lose one pip.
It doesn't MATTER. if that exists as a possibility, a team that can't be beaten, then the game is inherently unbalanced.
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I don't know where you got this idea that I said the game was balanced. It's not. But my points were to give you the best chance to win games over time. Think of it like playing poker, even if you play perfectly you will not win every time, your goal is to make the best possible decisions and ideally make better decisions than your opponents over time in the long run.
I got bad news for you there champ, there may be games where you just flat out lose against 4 completely solo survivors who just know how to loop and make you look like a chump for 7 straight minutes to the point where you want to quit the game, it's happened to everyone, hell it's happened to me and I've hit rank 1 over multiple reset periods both before and after Ruin's changes. There will also be times where you will beat an SWF because they get cocky, make mistakes, try to meme too much, or get too altruistic or they just flat out aren't that good or you're that much better.
Is SWF frustrating to go against? Most of the time yeah, but that feature isn't going away when the side of the playerbase buying most of the cosmetics demanded it be included in the game. Not to mention all the free publicity they get from streamers doing SWF with subscribers and followers. To be blunt, adapt or quit, but howling on the forums isn't going to do much more for you. People have given you advice and pointers, either practice and get better or stop playing killer if it makes you that unhappy.
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Don't act like you are special I am regularly rank 1 as well, been playing since Jan 2018, i'm rank 1 basically every time. I know how to play this game. The point i am making is that it is not balanced, and it is plain not fair. Howling on the forums is exactly the only point of contact i have with the devs, and i am trying to get through to them and the community, because if they don't do something about it, this game wont last. You NEED high level players (and streamers) to keep this game alive, and the more and more they put off actually balancing this game, the more likely it is that it ends. The only reason that it is still around is there hasn't been another asymmetrical game that has come around to take its place. But if they don't do something, it will happen.
You can talk about "advice" and "pointers" all you want. That's not what this is about. This game is unbalanced at top level play, period, and everyone knows it.
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Yeah not buying it, sorry, you can't whine about something as inane as survivors dropping pallets without looping then try to say "but nah bro, I'm rank 1 all the time, I just think it's cool to complain about this". Spare me please.
I didn't say I was special, the point was if people can regularly make rank 1 killer can't be THAT unbalanced. As I've said, if you expect to win every game you're either an entitled child who doesn't know that when you play against other humans in ANY game you may lose occasionally, or you're as bad as an entitled survivor main who rages in after game chat cause they got sacrificed.
And yes, all you are doing is whining on the forums which is not productive, you provide no suggestions for solutions unlike many others who have discussed the issues with map size, generator speeds, and second chance perks. You whine about survivors NOT looping? Again, not buying your actually red ranks if this would actually make you upset. I would literally KILL for survivor that played like this, the pallets would be gone before the third generator was popped and then it would just be survivor getting mowed down constantly.
And wow, you talk about me thinking I'm special? "I am trying to get through to them and the community" who the ######### are you again? It's funny you mention streamers, I don't see Tru3ta1ent or Not Otsdarva having any trouble playing killer or survivor, as both routinely reach Rank 1 on both sides, so what the ######### is your excuse again for why you can't hack it? Oh right, the game is "unbalanced".
And what the ######### are you talking about? There's been other asymmetrical games that have come out, Christ it's a running joke on Samination's DBD parody videos talking about "remember when last year was going to kill this game?". End of the day DBD for better or worse is the World of Warcraft of this genre, it was the first to get super popular and will unlikely be knocked off the mountain until the inevitable decline of the genre.
No online game in the history of ever has been balanced around top end play, EVER. League of legends isn't, World of Warcraft wasn't, none of them are. Balancing your game around the top end alienates the rest of the playerbase, BHVR knows this, and yes they will tend to side on the survivor side, either adapt or quit.
But clearly you don't want to hear anyone give you help, you just wanna whine. So git gud or don't.
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You are latching on to one thing i said. The point i was making is that is you literally don't even have to loop anymore. Did you not see anything anyone else wrote read this one again
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I write an entire paragraph "You are latching on to the one thing I said". No, I wasn't, I wrote multiple paragraphs, but you're just a whiner, and I don't care anymore. If you actually think survivors don't have to loop you're either a terrible killer or you don't play killer at all.
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You just getting outplayed. There re 2 options survivors can do around pallets: abuse it and not abuse it. And if you cant punish it when they abuse it you simply getting outplayed by better players. There are places where you cant really punish but there are a few ones like one or two and you should know about them. People often look for answers in balance of the game because they simply cant accept the fact that they got outplayed. Quit doing that. 😂
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No longer responding to you.
Read what i wrote, its not about being outplayed. it mathematically does not work out in favor for killer, period. read the other posts.
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Your initial post just says that survivors drop pallets against you and you cant do anything about it. If you meant something else you need to be more clear. It may sound understable to you because its your issue.
Also : "As soon as i dropped chase the one i would run towards would immediately start running away". What you expect them to do?
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Read what was written
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And you have no video proof of how it happened exactly. At this point you just exaggerating 😂
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Honestly, my main problem with this game is how strong holding forward is as Survivor, if you just do that each time a killer destroys a pallet you buy an extreme ammount of time with an action that takes no skill at all and can't be countered (except by mobility killers). Honestly, all killers should have some sort of catch-up mechanic to promote skillfull play, but can't be abused in a chase.
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You actually never win as survivor alone its a teamwork. So it cant be strong holding forward when your role alone is meaningless .
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Sorry but I don't fully undersand. What do you mean? The better one survivor does in a chase, the more time the others have to do gens. Now I understand to leave chase if a survivor is too skilled and wastes alot of time, but this can be done by someone who started the game for the first time and wastes a lot of time.
Lets say you play around the pallet and get a hit, they move at 6m/s for 2 seconds after the hit while you basically cant move for that time, so they gain around 12 meters of headstart (if not more). Most killers move at 4.6m/s so they catch up 0.6 meters per second if the survivor keeps running. So with most killers it takes you atleast 20 seconds to catch up, thats more than half a gen spread across 3 survivors, just for holding W and they can still get to a pallet and loop you afterwards. So your best bet is to let them go if they do that since they waste alot of time. But this is such an easy thing to do, that somebody who is completly new to the game can do it easily. If you don't have mobility or one shots that means chases always take a minimum of 20s to end if you are say a stealth killer and get a free first hit and they just hold forward and dont loop when you catch up. That almost never happens though obviously.
The only real reason why its not such a big problem, is that many don't realize the power of W and its typically only 1 or 2 survivors who do that per team.
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I mean you can't say that's completely wrong. Tru3 himself who has played the game since the beginning had a few games that went like that. You can't just bloodlust a pallet until you get bl 3 to get a down,you are forced to break it and if people do gens then even if you drop a chase,if everybody just insta drops pallets and everyone is on gens all the time ur just screwed.
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I agree with you in a way,here's a vid supporting that theory https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T8P0tT3v0-M
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Seems winnable https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T8P0tT3v0-M
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The OP is pretty accurate. There used to be a time where you had to play around pallets and try to keep them up as soon as possible. Now if you just drop them right away there's a good chance the game will be done by time they're all used up. I pretty much have only been playing survivor lately and it's really hard to not have your whole team escape. I feel like there's a ton of games where killers might get 1 hook, 2 hooks, or 0 hooks. Which is pretty crazy. They dc a lot. Can't say that I blame them.
When I play killer. I usually 4k them all. Pretty easily still. But I had a nice long break and my ranks are only purpleish right now. And it seems like the ranking system sucks. Red ranks to yellow ranks in lobbies. Kinda crazy.
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The OP is pretty accurate. There used to be a time where you had to play around pallets and try to keep them up as soon as possible. Now if you just drop them right away there's a good chance the game will be done by time they're all used up. I pretty much have only been playing survivor lately and it's really hard to not have your whole team escape. I feel like there's a ton of games where killers might get 1 hook, 2 hooks, or 0 hooks. Which is pretty crazy. They dc a lot. Can't say that I blame them.
When I play killer. I usually 4k them all. Pretty easily still. But I had a nice long break and my ranks are only purpleish right now. And it seems like the ranking system sucks. Red ranks to yellow ranks in lobbies. Kinda crazy.
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But, according to survivors, killer can also pallet loop!
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Play viable killers they all have such mechanic.
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Exactly thats the problem. Tbh I feel like if you play top tier killers the game is pretty balanced, unless there is a 4 man SWF deathsquad with 3 pimped toolboxes and a key or, from the survivor side, if there is a mori (yes even iridescent head is ok in my opinion but it IS pretty borderline). Problem is, there are like what? 4-5 viable killers out of soon 19? That is a pretty bad ratio if you ask me and a bit out of touch to say: "Well if you dont want to waste 20s to survivors pressing W you shouldn't have played them." Even killers that aren't top tier can be fun to play with, but taking forever to catch up to a survivor running in a straight line is just not fun.
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If u take so long (3 gens) to down a survivor that drop pallets insanely, yes, u are a awful killer
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Double Post bc of error
Post edited by Exor on0 -
Fyi the counter to a gen rush is Franklin's demise the second I que up and see a bunch of toolbox you bet I'll swap a perk for it. You do realise as killer you are given the only advantage pregame.... You can look and see flashlights and prep for a loop battle set your perks to pallet destroyer. You see a key bring a mori. Killers get that advantage use it don't just run the same perks all the time play smart not hard and my man above is right survivors who just toss pallets maybe getting stuff done early game but destroy the pallets guess what end of games comes you got noed they screwed. It's called preparation stop treating all the perks as definates make changes counter their play that's what the game is about
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Just use even a little strategy : if they just throw down every single pallet... destroy them and force them to go around one area, spend that 10 or 15 seconds on it, gratz, now its death zone with no pallets, no windows, no loops, no chance to escape. First minute of match and from now on every survivor catched in this zone is dead, thanks for that guys! Oh, and there are also 3 gens in that area? Thank for free game :P.
Its all about brain, if you gonna chase that 1 survivor for whole map then you must be brainless as he knows where he was and where he wasnt. But others dont know it. They gonna run to that sweet jungle gym with 3 pallets... sorry, there is no pallet left, you are free kill. Also hook one in that area to force others go to that side. Its pretty easy
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Sadly it really do be like that sometimes if the map is that awful with the RNG. Brutal strength helps a tiny bit. Faking a pallet break also works way more than it should. A lot of survivors just run without thought after they drop a pallet.
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During the time they drop 3 pallets it takes around 50-60 seconds. Adding in the initial chase time, finding the survivor, and 80 seconds go by. Guess what else also takes 80 seconds?
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They weren't quite saying instadropping, I think they meant running around a little bit but dropping once there's any real danger.
I'm currently Rank 7 (grazed 6 for a bit) and struggle when survivors do this too, if they pop the wrong gens while the first guy is burning pallets than you don't have a game to play. Even worse if they bring an anti-hemoragic so you need to hit them an extra time.
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Nurse, HillBilly for sure cause i wasted my time on them and i know what i m talking about.
Then looking at other players and killers i feel hard to verse against are : Freddy, Spriit - really hard to verse against for me. Huntress seem to be really viable from killer point of view. Myers has power to kill survivor as long as he reaches EW tier 3. Wraith ? Watch trutalent plays him and how he s doing good with him. Hag is considered to be really powerful killer by community. Oni is too new to tell much but as im aware his nerf was reverted back to some point. So the other killers i would assume not viable even though i never put my hours into them. So that leaves us with 9 not viable killers against 9 viable killers. Let me tell you more if 4 man swf bring those op items you can as well bring mori and do good against them.
Also Nurse , HillBilly , Sprit, Huntress, Hag are match against 4 man swf.
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Exactly. He talks about survivor play but no info about killer input.
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Hmm yes that make sense. I've only tried this once with a yellow mori and I had the wraith. I haven't thought properly of using a shroud which is yes not really a good thing.
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From the top of my head the people who can counter running in a straight line are: Nurse if they don' break LoS (which lets be real, isn' that hard to do) Billy, Spirit, Wraith with really good addons (he doesn't really counter it that much without windstorm), Hag IF they decide to run into a trapped zone, Myers if he has ew3 which already requires losing pressure most of the time, Bubba... if he ever can land a chainsaw, Ghostface and Oni (though he suffers alot from people running in a straight line, after he gets his power going its not that bad) Huntress counters literall beelines but distance + LoS is still a pain for her, especially since she is only 110%. Freddy can counter it by teleporting if a gen is in the direction the survivor is running. So with bubba and wraith having situational counters there are around 10 killers under generous conditions that can counter a zero risk high reward survivor strat, while almost half just have to deal with 20-30s time losses each hit once it gets more known. I didn't argue that killers are trash, but that it just removes any interaction between the survivor and killer (which is the skillfull part) for 20-30s by just holding a button.
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You talking about unskillful play from survivor side ( running in straight line ) but you not mentioning killer unskillfull play of simply chasing that survivor continously pallet looping him and not being aware of nearby surroundings....
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The problem is there is nothing skillfull you can do as a killer, its not a big problem if 1 does it since you can just switch targets, but what do you do if 2,3 or even all 4 do it? How do you counter holding W with almost half of the killer cast, except for looking for another survivor, which takes time and them just doing the same after you hit them, you have to commit eventually otherwise nothing happens. I play 30/70 survivor so I am not the best but still ok at it and everytime I hold W after a pallet/hit its guaranteed that a gen or two pop before the killer catches me with no skill from my part required until I actually get to a loop (and also only if its not a god loop ofc). Had one survivor game where I could see atleast two other survivors doing the same against a pig and even tho she was really good at loops and downed one of the W holding survivors super fast on it, holding W extended the chase long enough for 2 gens to pop. If she switched targets the other survivor and me would have just done the same. And again, this is all just from holding 1 button, if the survivors aren't braindead or new thats 20s of free stalling, followed by gameplay that the killer has any influence in. That is alot of wasted time when 30-40s chases are required against good survivors.
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Well this depends on which Killer you played, on a Legion, Clown, Trapper, Plague, Pig or Leatherface then there isnt much you can against that except break pallets and juggle around, apparently you dont know how to juggle but there are alot of guides that can help you out.
But if you played any other Killer then you really need to watch guides how to play these Killer, every other Killer can easily punish survivors by panic throwing downs.
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bait? what the hell :D i've seen many weird complaints from killers, but complaining about survivors just wasting pallets.. umm okay then, i guess ur a rank 20?
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just break the pallets and go patrol gens, next time you chase someone they won't have many pallets left
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They can do that but they'll create a dead zone perfect for a 3 gen while its annoying pallets are safety for survivors if you wipe half them out what can they do?
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Wait! Do what? Drop pallet?
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this is why SWF groups should be banned.
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No holding forward for distance either after a hit or pallet break, pallets are fine... with some exceptions.
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There s something i m missing ? Why you call it holding W?
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Sry yeah my bad, I'm playing on PC and the W button on the keyboard is for moving forward so thats why I say just holding W, hope this clears it up.
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As hillbilly i never have issues with that as he s full of mindgaming around pallets . Also zoning.
As for other killers i dont know ask them. But i guess they just dont break pallet and stack bloodlust and do zoning as well. It works for every killer. Also you should be aware of next loop they may approach and should know whether its safe or not. And that question of yours is really dumb sorry. What if they just drop pallet ? cause its usual behaviour to me i dont expect them to be not able to do that if there s clearly one in my sight.
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Hillbilly obviously does counter it easily, along with alot of the other already top tier killers, all because they have mobility (and in hillbilly's case a one shot, so the hit speed isn't a problem) in some form or another, those are fine. The question is, whats with those that don't have that and the main point, how are you zoning or mindgaming a survivor, that gets hit and runs to the other side of the map while you recover if you don't have mobility or a 1 shot? If they drop pallets and its safe you have to destroy it, letting them to gain distance equal to half of a map if they just hold forward and keep running with no counter, except for following them for 15-20s. If you don't destroy it people will just come back and use it since its safe. If the pallet is extremly unsafe then it may as well not exist, but we know that most of the pallets except for certain maps are more safe than they are risky for the survivors. Even if you zone them into a deadzone, you get a hit off, and then they gain a 20s headstart into a safe zone again. People camping pallets is indeed very VERY bad. But people running to the other side of a map during a pallet break or hit stun and then drop it for more distance gain arguably more time than a decent to good looper against a good killer, with no counterplay to it.
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well i know that leatherface cant do much there you re right about that one as for others you may i dont know
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Sorry but there are many ways around this.. Wraith is fast enough to run around it, Nurse can blink past it, Doctor can prevent the pallet drop, Clown can slow, Trapper can Trap, Demodoggo can lunge through it, Freddy can mind game and warp to a gen in front of the survivor.. plus there are perks that can help with this?
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You proved my point.
Obviously you don't know most of the killers you've mentioned, smart survivors can pre-drop pallets agaisn'ta Doctor, same with clown, he can still deny it yeah, but now we're talking about the top 2 weakest killer, demo, same as doc, they will pre-drop it if the demo can actually hit lunges, nurse , sure , she is the only who can actually ignore pallets, but its bold to assume that everyone can even use a nurse, trapper, yeah, he can trap some pallets, but survivors can DH through them and drop anyway, freddy, he is a real powerhouse yeah, he can fake pallets and slow peoples down, probably the only real one with actual power over the whole game.
Now I assume you're gonna say The Pig can sprint through pallets, Deathslinger can leave them hurt, spirit can backdoor blabla.. but now you're just forcing it, and im not even gonna mention your wraith quote.
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