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Breakable walls , the Saloon, and Ultra God Loops
Ok, so let's have a little chat.
The addition of breakable walls is a good thing for the game. Unfortunately, the way I see them implemented in the Saloon has me a little concerned.
Instead of creating the same length of loops that other maps have, they've created much longer ones in the new map, specifically in the saloon. Loops that would cause players to leave the match when seeing survivors continually running to the loop. To compensate, they added the breakable walls.
What this creates is little more than smoke and mirrors for a much anticipated change to the game.
For reference let's establish that a T3 loop is like the truck pallets on haddonfield, T2 is like cow tree or an LT wall, and T1 is any of the god loops like huntress' shack with the crazy window.
What they've done is they've created a T1+ loop in the saloon. In order to deal with this, the killer is forced to break several breakable walls in the saloon in order to lessen the impact of that loop. This creates another situation where the killer is forced to spend more of their already limited amount of time breaking what amounts to pre-dropped pallets in order to reduce a god loop to a T1 loop. A loop that will already cost them a lot of time when run relatively properly.
I don't think this is a good idea, since the original proposition of breakable walls was to reduce the power of stronger loops and create more dynamic gameplay.
Map loops should continue to have various strengths and lengths to them, but with breakable walls sprinkled in to reduce the strength of loops with already established rules and limitations that old loops have.
While I'm sure it's exciting to have this element available to create more dynamic and interesting loops, I'd like to encourage the devs to avoid creating loops that absolutely require the removal of the walls during a chase. It takes away from the chase itself in the same frustrating way when a survivor chooses to run from pallet to pallet dropping it immediately. It's not a fun chase.
Instead, utilizing the original rules for loops and adding in breakable walls to make those loops a degree or two less safe will add to the overall unsafety of a map over the course of the match In the same way that removing pallets from areas of the map will make those areas more unsafe for survivors.
This will also strengthen the killer the longer survivors remain on the map compared to the declining strength of survivors at the start of a match compared to the end when pallets and perks have been used up.
These are my thoughts, what do you think?
Comments
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They were probably afraid of survivor backlash if the new map had medium loops that were breakable to make them even worse as well. I hope that at least they'll implement breakable walls into the most BS loops at asap, possibly even in next midchapet patch. I don't think it will happen but one can always hope.
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To be fair, if they would take the saloon back to what it was like in the PTB, I would have less of an issue with it.
For example, the two upstairs bedrooms were both open in the PTB, now the front one is always blocked off. This made the building dreadful for me to chase anyone into the building.
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Honestly when I heard they were going to add breakable walls I thought this was their intent. What's the point of having loop counters if they aren't made to actually be able to counter loops which are boring and only about squeezing out extra 30 seconds or so of extra time-or more depending on the tier of loop- where the killer can do jack and nothing unless they're hag, trapper, a good nurse or maybe a god curving billy.
But nope. There are so many of the damn walls that they present as much as an issue as the loops sometimes. I think they were intended for killers to stop, think, and carefully decide which walls to break for max interception tactics and possibly deny new routes to survivor.
Issue is no killer has time for that, we don't control the speed of the game so we can't leisurely stop.
Check what walls are around us and where.
Break them. Which if we want to break multiple between walking and breaking is like 15 seconds off a gen we're not pressuring.
Then only to find out that our breaks weren't the best and the loop at its core remains thanks to a vault pause in the chase.
I never had a game where I had time for this. Unless I'm going against survivors who are intent on immerssing themselves all game and want chests and to totem hunt for some reason. Which is a pink moons occurance.
I don;t know why they added so many walls in stronger loops. Seems to defeat the purpose. Looping needs to die. I never had fun looping. No one ever gone to me "OH WOW. That match sure was scary and thrilling thanks to running in a circle for an extra minute around that thing!" so why make stronger ones after proposing an interactable that's meant to weaken them.
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I 100% agree, I loved the idea of Breakable Walls at first, I thought that they will make the stronger loops less time consuming for the Killers, but instead they made them god loops and forced the Killer to break them in order to play the tile normally...
I hope they will learn from their mistakes and fix them. (But they usually don't, so idk)
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I already predicted this when they announced the breakable walls. Those walls are just tools for them to create more god loops. You want a fair loop? Then waste your time and break every single wall at every loop you see in the game.
You know what's better idea? Just add a damn (bad word) door or hallway at those god loops that has been in this game for YEARS. Why wasting resource on this stupid breakable wall instead of something else that's more important (bugs, optimization, balance, rework, etc.) is beyond my understanding.
Funny how survivors raged and cried so hard because "it's a huge killer buff" before the update. And when it's live, all silent because it actually favors them.
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Breakable walls:
Killers: Effin A, sounds awesome
Devs: Let's just take every place that WOULD have a door and put a wall there instead!
Killers: *chase into saloon*
Pop
Pop
Pop
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I probably have to disagree to an extent. I actually like the idea of having a few really strong window loops, that become much less safe once you break the breakable wall. Survivors having a few safe windows in that case is fine for me. For example, all that the ironworks god window needs in my opinion is a breakable wall close by, so it still is as good as it is now when the wall is up, but once broken, it becomes much less safe.
It also works in my opinion, since the new Dead Dawg Saloon map is one of the most balanced maps in the game in my opinon. Having some strong windows before you break the nearby breakable walls is a good thing and works, because most pallets on that map are mindgameable, and the map has a fair size.
If all loops were counterable even without breaking a nearby breakable wall, then breaking that wall would either be useless or render the loop useless.
Of course, it depends on the map. If the new map had more safe pallets, I probably would rather have one or two less breakable walls I had to break to make certain windows less safe. Therefore no map should have many windows that are safe until the nearby breakable wall gets broken. So they really need to be careful with their implimentation.
One thing I am also a bit worried about is if the devs might go back to older maps that are already a bit survivor sided, and then alongside making more loops manageable, would also enhance certain loops and make them stronger, so the killer has to break the wall to transform the loops into what they used to be. I doubt they'll do that, but who knows.
As an example, there's an enhanced T-L wall in the Saloon map, that turns into a normal T-L wall once the breakable wall is broken. It works on that map in my opinion, but I would be disappointed if they went back to older maps to enhance T-L walls there. What older maps need are just breakable walls added to some loops so that some of the loops become more manageable, most importantly the insane window loops of some maps, and nothing else.
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How you wanted it to be? You want to get rid of a loop just break the wall? 😂
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So I agree with you, there should be some really good loops that the breakable walls make less safe. The problem is, they made the loops VERY good, close to god tier unless you break the walls... Even after you take the time to break all of the walls in the saloon, you basically go from Good Tier loops to still good loops.
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Do you realize how contradictory your post sounds?
”Yay, BREAKABLE WALLS will make strong loops worse for survivors!!”
...while also saying:
”Ugh, why do I actually have to BREAK these walls??”
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They thought the killer had too much time on their hands they added a way to force killers to break walls.
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It wasn't meant to sound like that, I thought that Breakable Walls would be an option, not a must if you want to actually play that tile.
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You can still catch up like any other god loop in the game (hello bloodlust and entity blocking). The difference now is that you can take an extra 2 seconds to make that god loop easier to play.
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Honestly, I just avoid the saloon like the plague. If I see a person on the gen as a ranged killer, I'll shoot at them, but ultimately it does nothing for me to keep that gen. I always let it pop so the rest of my game is easier.
Some of the other breakable walls are necessary, while some are not. They are all relatively mediocre, imo.
The Shack wall is also relatively weak, especially compared to the one on the PTB. That was actually game changing but now its kind of meh.
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Where was shack wall on ptb?
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I a bit confused. In yout post you are saying "the original proposition of breakable walls was to reduce the power of stronger loops and create more dynamic gameplay". And that is what the saloon is exactly. 2 Breakable walls that reduce this loop to almost nothing. You just break these walls at the exact start of this round and that's it. You lose time - sure you do and that is why I said long ago the walls will be extremely boring feature. You just break them and that's it. I don't see anything exciting about them. Wherever they put these walls you will lose time to break them. There is no other way around it. There are actaully few breakable walls on already bad loops which makes them completely useless which is really dumb. I really don't understand on what kind of loops do you want these walls. They have to be on the strongest loops cause if on smaller they will be reduced to useless early which will kill the gameplay of the map/which I find pretty bad anyway with probably 20% if not more of the map being a dead zone/. If they add it on a strong loops they will always feel like you want to break the wall or being forced. While we talk about loops you also didn't mention that on the new map majority of the pallets are unsafe which is also a problem on its own
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It was between the pallet and the window.
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These are my thoughts, what do you think?
I dont see the point of you post tbh or i simply dont get it what you mean. If they implement breakable walls on the already existing maps, what exactly is the problem for the killer? That it takes time to break those breakable walls? I guess if that is the case then the loop was not as bad anyway when you dont have those 2 seconds.
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That sounds way better than what we have now
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But it did make shack mostly useless after that wall was done.
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In between the pallet and the window
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So if I understand it right, your point is instead of bringing balanced tiles/loops into the game, they are going for powerful loops with a breakable wall to balance it out. If thats what you meant then I agree. Its BS
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Also, I thought I'd mention how boring it is to go to a generator *cough* top of saloon *cough* , realize there are no survivors around, but have to stop and break various walls to ensure that you can come back to the generator more quickly next time to interrupt survivors who are actually there. It's just tedious and boring because none of it requires any brainpower.
I would much rather have a drop off be added to the stairs above the window that would put a killer on the other side of the window OR just make the window one-sided by having one side be a ditch from which the survivors cannot access the vault, preferably blocking off the vault opportunity from the inside (eg. inverse Haddonfield windows).
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