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5 engines vs 12 hangs
If we consider that each survivor needs 3 hangs to die (12 in total) and the survivors only need to make 5 engines, isn't the game a bit unfair? not to mention how easy and fast it is to repair an engine (in less than 4 minutes all 5 engines can be completed) they would not have to do more engines to be able to escape?. Not to mention that there are 4 people who only need to do 5 engines, against a single person who needs to do 12 hangs ... am I the only one (not main survivor) who thinks it is very unfair?
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And yet killers still won most games. Imagine that.
Almost as if comparing objective numbers alone isn’t a very good way to judge balance.
It could he argued survivors have to do 5 gens ( and often 5 totems) whereas killers only need to kill 4 survivors.
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No its not unfair. Any more Gen means an easy win for same skilled killers.
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Where do you get that information from? I do not speak for me, I follow many twitch channels and I see that the gen rush is massive and that in most games at least 3 survivors escape. It is correct, one person have to kill 4 people, but only one person need to do 12 hangs to kill 4 survivors, 4 survivors only need do 5 engines that can be completed in less than 4 minutes.
Post edited by LordTohes on1 -
How many "skilled killers" do you know in this game? most people are not experts and the number of killers suffering from the gen rush is 9 to 1. Also, with your excuse, for skilled survivors the game is extremely easy now. If it's easy for the skilled survivors it's fair, but if it's easy for the skilled killers is not fair? Most people know that playing as a survivor is much easier than playing as a killer, why do they have to have even more advantages? that anywhere in the world is unfair 🤔
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The devs own stats? No killer is getting an average of less than 2 hooks per game. Most are averaging between 2-3 kills.
Also 5 gens vs 4 kills.
You want to break it down into 3 hooks per survivor? Well how about I break it down into 80 charges per gen, that’s 400 charges. 400 vs 12. Checkmate.
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The game is totally unfair. The survivors have much more advantage and genrush is an undeniable fact, those who say otherwise are those who only play as survivors... everyone knows that.
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Thanks, I knew iIhad seen that video somewhere but I couldn't remember who it was 🤣
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To be a survivor you don't need to have any skills, repairing is extremely easy and fast and the game also benefits it. Being a killer is more difficult and you need some skill but the game hurts you to make it even more difficult 🤨
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(Insert Entitled Killer Main Comment Here)
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I disagree. You’re very wrong in the sense that someone hanging pulls survivors off to rescue and heal allowing killers to get easy trade offs. It’s actually unfair on survivor side. Gens take a lot longer than you think especially when combined with thanat, dying light, ruin. As Long as killers patrol gens it’s actually not very fun for survivors if one of them can’t run the killer around for more than 5 seconds. This is why you probably think it’s unfair for 12 hooks. A lot of the time 12 hooks doesn’t seem like a lot. Killers have ebony Mori’s that short survivors of 8 of the hooks anyways. It’s super killer sided atm. Unless you get those sweaty SWFs but even then that’s only a contender. Solo doesn’t really have a solid consistent chance. I see teammates go down before a gen even pops. It’s deflating
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Since when does asking for a balanced game equal to being entitled?
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I only say that ds, dead hard, unbreakable, etc... I mean, one mistake from the killer has costed you the match, survivors can mess up and they still have a lot of chances to win, and even so they have many more advantages because they can make 5 generators (extremely easy) in less than 4 minutes, and the killer needs to do 12 hangs without making any mistakes... and that's... is not fair to me 😕
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Arguing with survivor mains is useless. I know it for a fact, I used to be one myself. I thought killers were overpowered even though the fault was almost always mine. Then I started playing killer, and realized how unbalanced this game truly is.
Dbd is in a disgusting place as of now. Survivors can end the game in 5 minutes or so. The ONLY thing you will be told is "apply pressure and git gud", a pathetic excuse which seeks to hide the game's flaws.
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can u share that video with me? (cuando fue?)
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I agree %100
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I disagree. Killers can make it almost impossible to do generators and you especially don’t want to 3 gen yourself. Lucky there’s keys available but those aren’t guaranteed. Most often chases are cut really short because let’s be honest killers really do have the upper hand in mowing people down within 5 minutes too. It really all depends on if someone can run the killer or not. But more often than not nobody does 😂 it shouldn’t be like that, I rarely have fun on chases because laggy hits ruin the game, or hits they don’t deserve where I’m clearly through a vault and they still hit me. Nah... bs! How is that fun for survivors? Please tell me and show me an example where killers aren’t getting 3-4K consistently? You whine because you might be learning still. That’s okay.
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December 3, 2019 https://youtu.be/cV6AVsCj8Es
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twitch or youtube you can find millions of cases. Even skilled killers like Ralph (the main Anna) often can't kill anyone
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huntress running around with iridescent and infantry belt that gives her 3 one hit hatchet downs before restocking. That’s excessive. The fact that killers just mow people down in one hit is excessive. MISSED Melee attacks don’t have Long enough recovery Times imo. If you miss an attack as a killer - especially a one hit down attack. it should be more like nurseS missed phase attack where she slows down temporarily. I think this game is complete nonsense at times due to killer speed and lag and whatever else. I just don’t think you realize that killers can kill just as fast if not faster than gens flying by in the 5 minute timeframe you guys say it does. I’m sorry I don’t want to stare at a progress bar longer . Increasing gen time is going to make me uninstall the game . Simple as that.
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I think you are talking about another game, it is ok if you are new as a survivor and it costs you a chase with the killer, but if you ever try to play as a killer you will realize that you are confused
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Or maybe people have different opinios than you and you are too accustommed to your "killers weak" circlejerk to realize that.
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Nice b8 m8 I r8 8/8.
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I think it goes both ways. Killers have the advantage of making it 4 hooks instead of 12 via Mori. Michael Myers can insta kill on sight. Infinite evil within (exposed). 3 iridescent hatchets (One hit downs) at a time. Camp hooks. So you’re telling me they’re either getting looped or not finding anyone? I think it’s bs. For a game that relies on survivor-killer interactions I’d say the interactions typically don’t last long. Whether it’s lag or hits I don’t think should have registered. Quite frankly I think killers need harsher recovery times from missed attacks and these one hit down things defeat the purpose of the fun of the game which derives from the chases. More often than not I also see red and purple rank survivors (I’m rank 6) and I see them go down with ease. Then I get hate mail from my teammates bc they’re made we got 4Kd. I don’t think it’s survivor sided at all. And if they’re running gens on you that bad, you might need to improve your map control and awareness? Bc killers are op out the wazoo man.
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That's why getting the early hook is vital. It changes 4 people working on objectives to 2 or less.
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I look at Ralph and Otzdarva a lot, (to give examples) they are all main killers and they are people who play very well, I also talk about the mechanics of the game and not so much about the players. Everyone thinks differently, but the game is created in one way and you can't argue with that, the rest are just excuses.
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I will try to answer everything, I use the google translator so some things may not be well understood. The infinite evil of Mayers costs a lot of time, at least 3 motors to reach level 3. The huntress axes, the billy saw, stalkear with ghostface, leatherface, the clown, etc. They are skills that can knock you down, but you need to hit with the ax or be hide to stalk, or hit the bottle, hit the saw, etc, and is not that easy as you think. You need to hit with the saw, you need to have the ability to hit those blows, a survivor can run and move much easier than a killer. 3rd person so the window is still the survivor's. You can find people, but there are infinite loops, there are loops that can take a killer for 1 minute (even if it is not infinite) running behind, there are pallets and windows, etc. you can find a survivor, but while you throw him to the ground there are 3 people making 3 motors, that means that you have 1 hang and you have 2 motors left and you need to hang 12 times to kill them all. The killer when the blow fails loses time, the survivor when he receives a blow gains speed and advantage. You can control the map, but you cannot control 4 people at the same time, a generator can make 3 people, you chase 1 of them and the other 2 repair the engine, if you return to the engine without catching the first survivor the rest are making other engines. If there is something I did not answer, please let me know but the things that you are saying to me is because obviously you never played as a killer, I invited you to try it, I started playing as a survivor and thought it was difficult, then I started playing as a killer and I realized that playing as a survivor was the easy part.
BTW: The most important thing is often 4 people communicated against a single person is a huge and ridiculous advantage
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That depends, many prefer to repair engines and not help their friends, the only thing that gives the killer an advantage is the tunnel
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Lol oh please. The vast majority of games killers win by just waiting around the hook or tunneling someone out before they can get away. Killer is braindead.
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And do you think that is the way to play? do you think it is better to play as Ochido? Let's talk about the mechanics of the game, not the nonsense of each person 🤣
As I said before, I invite all the people who only play as a survivor to play as a killer. You can say many things, but when you play as a survivor AND as a killer you really realize the reality of the game (try to reach rank 6 - 8 killer at least)
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Sorry I just read this message and I really have no idea what you are talking about and honestly I think you don't either, I invite you to play as a killer and then I will take into account any comments from you
BTW: I don't want to attack anyone, but after "pretty good job so far" it is difficult to consider valid something that the developers of this game can say, you can see and feel and live what really happens in the game, you just have to put "play as a killer" in main menu and in a few days you will realize how right I am in what I am saying 🙂
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Gens are the survivor job and you don't have to do totems to escape. Gen rush is a BS term by people that can't apply pressure and let themselves be lead in the wrong direction and don't know when to give up on a chase. I joined to kill survivors and so far I think I've been a survivor more till recently to get games quicker.
I hate being on the end of it but slug em if you have to.
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It's almost like protecting generators should take priority over tunneling that one survivor that you have been chasing for the last 7 minutes.
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What was he doing for 3 minutes???? Hooks create pressure and snowball potential. Did he just chase a single strong survivor for 3 minutes or something???
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I think someone did a recent count of killers and they were usually sub-2 kill games, it's not official stats, but the stats are wildly varying.
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Only on the DBD forums will you find people that are willing to accept stats from random people that favor their side of the story over stats from the official developer team. 🙃
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ok but... from that screenshot, the killer is playing Wraith on Haddonfun, without windstorm (from what i can tell, the add ons are too blurry to see.)
either way, that map is heavily unbalanced so like... its hard to really tell from that map, lol
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Its not 5Gen & 12Hook
The game is design to have 5Gen + 1Gate and 8-10Hook (consider 2 dead and other 2 Suvivors have 1 or 2 Hook) that should not count tunneling to able to pull it.
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The killers objective is not to get 12 hooks
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I have to disagree slightly with you here.
Looping and timing skill checks require a little bit of skill. With looping you predict how far the killer can hit you from and if you can run another safe loop or reach the pallet in time. Chases can sometimes make survivors panic a little bit, which makes them forget to predict the killer's attack. To me it takes skill to try and ease the panic and predict the reaction time of the killer. Looping also skill because you have to look behind you as well as in front of you to watch out for how far the killer is behind and to avoid running into any objects which just hinders your movement.
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The thing is, if you're good a chase will most likely not last 80 seconds and when you hook someone there's someone else that won't do gens, more pressure #########. Its not a very good example to explain how unfair it is cuz they are completely different objectives.
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First of all lets talk about value of a generators and hooks:
Do you play chess? If so, you might know, that a pawn is worth 1 piece at the beginning of the game. Nobody who would understands anything about chess would just randomly sacrifice a bishop for a pawn at the beginning of the game. Now imagine this pawn moves forward. The further he goes, the more valueable he becomes. If he reaches the 7th rank, he is actually even more worth then the bishop, and has even at least the same value as a rook (5 or even more pieces)
We can say the same thing about generators and hooks.
In theory, a hook is worth just about 8% and a generator is worth 20%, since you need 12 hooks as a killer and 5 generators as survior to complete your objective. But these are only numbers. Lets go into detail so you know what i mean.
The first hook might be in fact just the 8% value, actually sometimes even less, because of a few factors:
- The playfield is big, generators are spread out on the map
- All 4 survivors are (hopefully) on generators and you can only chase 1 guy at a time
- All pallets are still up
The same goes for gens but vice versa in the sense of value because of big playfield, all survivors are working, all the resources for surviors are still up etc.
By nature, the killer has (and has to have) a bad early game, and the reason why this is because:
From the moment on, the killer hooked the first guy, every next hook becomes more and more valuable, since the dynamic of the game has now drasticly changed: Suddenly it changed from all 4 survs on gens to: 1 Survivor is on the hook, 1 is safing, one is getting chased and one is on a generator. On top of that, pallets get broken, the playfield becomes significantly smaller due to low value generators that have been done and the killer has constant pressure.
Every generator becomes more and more valueable and harder to do in the middle and late game, but on the contrast, it becomes more and more easy for the killer to get hooks, kills and genpressure for the killer (smaller playfield, less pallets for the survivors, more pressure, more downed people, more room to play for the killer etc.)
It is the NATURE for the game, that the first generators has to pop really quick. If that does not happen because of longer repairtimes, survivors wont stand a chance to succeed the last generators because of already named reasons.
TLDR:
The time and the difficulty to complete the first 1-3 gens is very short and easy compared to the time it takes to complete the last 1-2 gens.
In comparison the afford to hook and kill a survivor is in the eary game harder and takes longer then in the endgame, where the playfield is smaller and the pallets are reduced.
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That's less about it being easy for killer and more about people being in ranks they shouldnt be. If a full team of "red ranks" has someone unable to loop for at least a gen, they're not supposed to be there.
With natchnaming and the emblem system all out of whack, it's hard to actually say who belongs where, but having potato survivors where they dont belong does not mean it's a killer sided game.
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There is such things as juggling, snowballing, area control and slowdows. If those aren't enough to stop survivors doing gens then the person playing as killer either sucks, or is just having a bad match that particular time. Comparing 5 gens to 12 hooks is a braindead excuse for lack of pressure. Momentum and time management is everything in dbd. If you are doing either of those poorly then you will lose, unless the survivors suck and play even worse than the killer. Don't pay attention to streamers, just because they film themselves playing, does not mean they are the authority on all things dbd. Most of them use scummy builds and think obnoxious perks are the only way to have pressure and have a chance of winning.
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I only said I'd seen them... My point is that stats keep swinging back and forth anyways, and likely will, as they try to balance for two different levels of survivor: coms and no coms, and it'll likely cause ping ponging.
I personally have said for awhile now to give solo come or at least something close enough, then balance around coms.
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