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Should Momento Moris be Nerfed or Removed?
Hi everyone!
Hope you're all staying safe and healthy during this time.
Other people I play this game with, as well as myself, feel like the Mori is too overpowered. It severely cuts the game time and, as aesthetically pleasing as it is, there is no equivalent for the survivor to get around it. Also, there is no repercussion for the killer using it. "Getting good," just isn't enough, as the game seems to already lean in favor of the killer. I feel it is an unfair game mechanic and causes the game to lean even more heavily in the killer's favor, especially when the killer can Mori every single Survivor in the match (provided conditions are met with perks, add-ons, and Offerings that are attained). I specifically recall a time where The Shape walked up to me and killed my Survivor on the spot. Perfectly healthy, not even in the Dying State.
One or even two survivors would be acceptable but all four I feel is too much. I think either a heavy limit on it or removal all together would be fair options- or even a Perk/Add-On/Offering for Survivors that allows them to avoid it.
Thoughts?
Answers
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It should only be active after two hooks, replacing the death hook
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Just make Ebony Moris require all 4 survivors to be hooked once before anyone can be moried. Dissuades tunneling and allows survivors more time. Keys should be nerfed at the same time though. Both are unhealthy for the game.
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Killers need an Ultra Rare offering to burn, so I'd say nerf it instead, even though I would be voting for it to be removed instead.
If removed, I would at least keep a Cypress Memento Mori, and also not make it secret.
Oh yeah, did I mention it's pointless to make the Mori offering secret? Lol.
Nobody uses Shroud of Separation, which is the other secret offering for Killer, so if anyone picks an offering, and it's hidden, then it's 99.9% a Mori.
If I had to pick nerf though, I'd maybe make it so that Moris can only happen after the second unhook and not the first one? Or maybe make it so that people are killable once all generators have been repaired. One of those two.
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This. Although I would just stipulate that you can only mori a survivor that is on death hook, because if they struggle to phase 2 then you can't mori them if 2 hooks was the stipulation. I'd also make the current Cypress Mori basekit and change Cypress Mori offering to allow the killer to mori a survivor during EGC regardless of whether that survivor has been hooked.
However, I think they need to change both mori's and keys at the same time because they are both dumb. Keys I would add a 10 second channel animation to open the hatch and using a key would trigger EGC. I would buff Broken Key to allow you to open the hatch ONLY IF you are the last survivor. Dull Key would only open the hatch for the guy with the key and close behind them. And Skeleton Key would only open the hatch for the guy with the key but faster (maybe 8 seconds), unless the key was used after the Exit Gates were powered in which case it would stay open until the killer closes it (for the 'Where'd They Go' achievement).
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I’d be down for a rework when keys are nerfed but until then no.
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Do you think that this would give the killer even more of an advantage at all?
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I'm down to make Cypress base kit.
But in exchange, make Kindred base kit for Survivors too.
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The problem with mori at first was that killers could just instantly kill you without a hook. It was changed to require a hook, so killers just shifted tactics and started to tunnel the survivor off the hook to mori. If the survivor had to be on death hook, that would basically mean the killer has to hook them twice. At this point any killer whose goal is to kill you as fast as possible is throwing the game to do it because they have to tunnel you twice basically, or camp you to stage 2 and tunnel you.
I think mori's are a fun way to kill a survivor but they shouldn't be able to subvert the core mechanics as much as they do. Same for keys, the major problem with keys is it lets a group of survivor escape sooner than they would normally. If it was just the guy with the key now it's just one guy gets that early escape, and the others are still locked in the trial and can potentially die. The only reason I would allow Skeleton Keys to keep the hatch open once gates are powered is because if you let 4 survivors get to this point, you basically lost already as killer. And it would encourage them to want to still finish gens even if someone is dead with 1 gen left so they can get everyone out through the hatch. Plus you need to allow some way to get the achievement.
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No Kindred is way too strong to be made basekit. Cypress should be basekit because if you catch the last survivor there is a 99.9999% chance they are dead anyway. Might as well let the killer mori them because it doesn't matter at that point.
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SHOULD MOMENTO keys BE NERFED OR REMOVED?
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Moris are fine for the most part. I just think they need to adjust how often they appear in the bloodweb. Eboni Moris especially. I swear I get more Ebony Moris than Ivory moris on all my killers.
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Yes they definitely should, particularly the ebony ones. My thinking is everyone should be hooked once before they get used. Now whether or not you can compare them to the power of a key, well you can’t. Keys require all survivors to still repair all gens before the hatch even spawns unless someone has died then you get it down to 1 gen left. Thing is, keys are still necessary at that point because I don’t believe killers have that hard of a time patrolling gens because of how fast they are naturally with their walking speed and the high mobility ones especially are kind of too much when you’re trying to get that last gen done. You’re bound to go down at some point so why do people think ebony Mori’s Are fair? You’re essentially cheating on your objectives. 12 hooks reduces down to 4 hooks with An ebony Mori. A key still requires survivors to do all of their work though? How is that comparable?
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I like how you think and your logic, but the hatch doesn't appear until a given amount of generators are done. If the Killer has Detection Perks on, such as Gearhead or Barbecue & Chili, this easily counteracts this, no?
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I don’t think a key is cheating particularly because it gets to a point where it’s unfair for survivors to do that last gen. It’s Simply not doable . They need the key to give them an alternate way of escaping. But if you think about it, survival games have always had multiple ways of escaping. So there’s nothing wrong with having a key. Killers got it easier in this game than they do in most other games in my opinion.
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i think killers have too much in terms of one hit down abilities (exposed, iridescent head hatchets/infantry belt, etc) that I think they don’t deserve a Mori. It’s just excessive.
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This is a great point.
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You’re absolutely right, 30s and up the ebonys were in almost every other levels blood web
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No because survivors can still leave the game early. If a key is in play you have to be VERY careful of where and when you kill a survivor. If you kill someone and there's 1 gen left, the other 3 get to escape and you can't do much about it because you can't stop a key, and in most cases you can't search the whole map for the hatch because then they can finish gens. It's lose lose. Even Franklin's doesn't actually stop it unless you happen to be chasing the guy with the key as they run to hatch. The only way to counter a key is to kill the guy with a key and hope they used a WW/WR because then the key won't drop for the other survivors to use.
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99% of the time, if you are in a 3 gen as survivors it's your own fault. It's very easy to avoid if you pay attention to what gens are being done. In fact all you really have to do is just rush the gens in the middle of the map. If you split the map you basically won as survivor.
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Neither, they are perfectly fine.
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Yeah but I think particularly because that can happen is why there should be more ways to escape. This is why I think the key is a mechanic that can’t be compared to a Mori. Mori’s are just blatantly cheating at your objectives. Whereas a key is offering an alternate way of escaping. A lot of The maps aren’t even that big and killers have too high mobility making 3 gen a realistic possibility a lot of the time. It’s not fair to ever leave someone without a chance because gen speed isn’t fast enough to get one done before the killer comes back. I honestly don’t think the maps are that big and the hiding consists of jagged rocks, skinny trees and knee high crates. Rigged in killers favor.
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Just make it so you can only use Moris after you hook all 4 survivors once and that should make them balanced.
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I do like the new map though @ dead dawgs saloon the bushes are nice!
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But yeah basically what I’m saying is that Mori’s aren’t really necessary. I’ve seen plenty of high rank killers/ good killers get 4Ks with ease. Particularly high mobility killers/ones that can cut chases short. It’s kind of unfair to give them Mori’s too as the game is based on killer - survivor interactions. And I think Mori’s take away from that ruining the game :)
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Just out of curiosity, what killers do you play, and how often?
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They are 100% comparable. Both let you subvert the mechanics of the game.
Again if you find yourself in a 3 gen situation with little to no chance of finishing the last gen that's your fault as survivor.
Not to mention hatch is still an option, just some more survivors have to die before it becomes an option.
I have 3k hours, I play both sides but mostly survivor in a SWF. Keys are indeed unfair, just as mori's.
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Neither. I think the Moris need rather an interesting rework than a nerf. And to be honest it's something I suggest quite often. My Idea is that Moris should really be able to change the rules of the game. Make it so, that the Ebony Mori gives a killer a token based progression, which replaces the two survivor hook phases. Each hook and each survivor hook phase on hook, gives the killer one token. After Token X he can kill his first, Y the second and after Z all survivors with their own hands. That would be an interesting and funny rework of the memento mori.
I mean, if we think about it. Killer offerings are actually quite good to introduce something, which mixes things up, without making it happen too often or with a natural limit in mind...
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The only problem with this is DC's. Unless they make DC's count as a hook, you can get screwed out of your offering. Alternatively, as survivors you can just have 1 player hide all game to avoid the mori. It makes more sense to just have the requirement be that the survivor is on death hook for you to mori, since there is no way you can cheese that.
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Think I only see a mori maybe once in every 50 games. I don't lose sleep over it. I just move on to another game.
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They've already been nerfed
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It could be if all remaining survivors have been hooked, you can start mori them.
But with DC penalties, I saw less people DCing, so for the most part it shouldn't be a problem.
1 survivor hiding all game would be the counter to this Mori version.
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So three should escape because they brought an item... or find one in the match... Thats balanced. The killer is doing their job well, but the others escape because of an item.
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The only change to mories should be to the red mori, requiring the survivor to be on death hook. The suggestion that all.other survivors be hooked first is ridiculous.
If mories are going to be reworked, keys should be reworked at the same time. 3 survivors escaping after 3 genning themselves and being unable to complete the objective is BS.
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nah i like moris
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honestly green mori is perfectly fine. eboni might need some nerf, but like there are killers who have no pink addons. so ebony is the only thing they can get on web
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Survivors don't need more time, you absolute madman.
If you require more time at that point; you need to get good and improve your ability to play the game.
Mori's have never been unhealthy for the game; especially since they come at a cost and Gen-rush has always been a thing, especially with SWF.
So please hush.
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It’s fine
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Survivors don't get ultra rare offerings.. If anything, Killer offerings in general should just be overhauled.
1) When burned; the entity offers protection over all hooks preventing them from being sabotaged
2) When burned; The Entity increases the speed at which it consumes each hooked survivor. Greatly decreasing the time it takes to kill a survivor on the hook by 10/15/20 seconds
3) When burned; Increases the amount of totems on the map by 1/2/3 totems.
4) When burned; The entity graces the killer with two basements to devour its pray.
5) When burned; All survivors start the match with the broken status for 10/20/30 seconds.
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I feel like this is extreme.
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That myers was using tombstone myers. Y'all give him his evil within.
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so much money goes into moris that each killer has their own distinct mori animation. Why would they spend so much time and effort and money if they didn't want the killer to be able to purchase mori offerings with blood points...
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No it’s not good enough when people just camp hooks . That’s not fair for survivors :/ you can also look at it as they only have to hook 4 times as opposed to 12. That’s a huge difference and I don’t see anything that gives survivors the ability to instantly complete a gen? Where’s the survivor ultra rare offering?
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1. I'd say slow the speed down instead of making it unusable. I have a feeling this offering would be overused a billion times and this also makes the sabotaging daily rituals not finishable.
2. The problem is match speeds. This would also increase the "speed" of a match, in a sense. That is exactly what we don't want.
3. I'd be fine with this one. But then we would need some sort of survivor perk to indicate how many totems there are on the map, like Thrill of the Hunt.
4. Two basements? Only if there's a higher rarity than Ultra Rare. Then I'd make this into an offering.
5. Again, speed of a match. Do you have any idea how fast a Killer can find survivors ESPECIALLY with high map pressure killers? (Hillbilly, etc.) Everyone being broken for 30 seconds, the first few survivors can be easily downed with M1 and also it makes no sense to be suddenly healed after the broken state. Oh yeah, insta down killers are also a thing anyway..
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I'm a survivor main, so im just throwing ideas out there.. We need more unique offerings so killers dont use mori's as much. Like how many people actually use a key? Most survivors bring MedKits, Flashlights or Toolboxes
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Wouldn't it be 8 "hooks" and not 4 hooks tho? After you hook somebody you have to down them again, making it 8 downs to kill everyone, since they don't magically die after they get hooked once.
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And SWF is unfair to killers. You know what, if you support a lobby indicator for swf, so killer can decide to play against them or not, then i support the nerf of moris. Is that fair to you?
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I'd say get rid of ebony. Make ivory ultra rare. And cypress basekit.
Then allow keys to only let one survivor out per key.
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The whole mechanic should be reworked along with keys. Few things are more unsatisfying than being mori'd off first hook or playing out an entire match, having everyone on death hook after they 3 gen'd themselves, only to see 3 survivors suddenly escape with 1 gen to go. Why even try at that point? Get rid of these ridiculous instant win cards. It just makes me want to load up a different game every time I encounter one. Stop designing a casual party game when the playerbase clearly wants something slightly more competitive.
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Mori's have been in the game since the start, they're an original offering for the killer.
As others have suggested, I would like to at least nerf them instead of removing them completely because I know there's a lot of controversy between keys and moris. Removing moris would make it unfair for killers.
As a nerf, like many others have said, maybe activate the ebony mori once survivors enter the struggling phase, that way they won't be instantly killed after their first unhook.
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Mori shouldn't be nerfed. At two hooks you basically replaced third hook kill with an animation. It renders the entire power of the offering into an animation. That's dumb. That would be like key letting you skip opening the gate instead of opening hatches.
Big whoop.
That feeling of the game ending too fast thanks to mori. That's how killers feel almost all the time. Now you know why they complain so much,
If you REALLY wanted to fix mori then they would need a mechanical overhaul. The very nature of the game would have to change when these moris are being played. Maybe these moris induce certain base skills in both killer and survivors, maybe they simply straight up change the mode from gen m1ing to hide and seek.
Maybe some buffs to suvivors and killers when an mori is in play. Like all survivors get a brief haste effect when they are unhooked in order to stop hook camping for an easy mori or getting buggered by a team mate.
We need more offerings that actually change up the game somehow for both survivors and killers. For killers offering that put additional hazards or enviromental effects would be good idea-such as say placing a number of traps on the map- for survivors potential boosts to certain actions. Maybe even an offering like a rucksack that lets you carry one more item but that item is fixed.
The biggest problem DBD has, always have had is the feeling of assymetrical EFFORT put in from either side. Killers get angry because m1ing is mindless, then survivors get angry because killers go "I can do that too" then hook camp you and the they feel frustrated because that's mindless. The game need to be fixed so both sides can feel they are contributing without it being a race to the bottom of cheapness for a less stressful experience. Mori's are also a feeling of this. It cuts out a large section of the killer job that they feel unequal effort is now being put in.
And no I'm not saying "gen rushing" is cheap. But the easiest counter to it is to resort to cheap tactics, hence tunneling to decrease pressure.
Most survivors hate playing killer for this very reason. It's also the more frustrating to play killers don't show up alot. The game is already frustrating without being slow or getting stunned alot by your own mechanics. Offerings that take the pressure off killers to solely hinder survivors in anyway would be a good start. For survivors offerings, objectives and mechanics in the game that promote them to do something besides m1ing gens or loopingk illers would also be good.
If they're going to change moris, it should be with these things in mind.
I would suggest these changes to start off with:
Cypress - base kit. It's terms to be used are already needle thin.
Green:The obsession is the only one than be green moried. The obsession is given a notification via a sound they are picked to be moried. The killers radius dosen't appear to the obsession. The obsession gets a spine chill like effect as base kit though while this is in play.
This would actually give the rest of the team a chance. It's make the killer scary and powerful to the obsession. While this may render some obsession powers a burden-OOO for example- it also makes the killer unlikely to equip many obsession based perks too since most of them become weak once the obsession is dead.
Ebony: Gens are removed. Survivors also earn points in objective from the amount of time they survive. The killers radius is removed except when they attack someone or enter a chase. If a chase stops in 30 seconds the radius is removed again. The match has an end game collapse-esque timer on. Once the timer is up the gates will automatically power up. When the killer strikes someone the killers aura is revealed to all survivors during this trial.
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