Let's talk about the red mori
Hey everyone.
I wanna talk about the red mori and I ask everyone to stay polite and calm. This is not bashing, this is supposed to be a civilised discussion.
Soo.. recently the insta heals (both, the red and the purple one) got changed. One of the reasons was "We [the Devs] don't like things that change the trial drastically" (e.g. a downed survivor who kept the killer occupied for 5 mins gets back to full life and ruins the killer's game experience).
I fully understand that this was necessary (though I don't like that change) but I am wondering upon what grounds the red mori stays at it is. When you speak of things that change a trial drastically the red mori should be the first one that comes to mind.
In some hands, that mori is just unfair. A (bad) killer who barely got one survivor on a hook (we are talking about average survivors, not the coordinated pro swf's) and who really doesn't deserve a 4k can get one with that offering easily.
I often hear the suggestion that the red mori (the yellow and green ones don't need to be changed) should be changed, so that the killer has to hook everyone at least once before he can start killing the survivors. This change could increase the use rate of the green mori, too. If I just wanna do my daily, I would just take the green one.
I play killer reguarly and if I take the red mori because I have that daily, I always try to hook everyone twice, so that they still had fun and I get more bloodpoints (as long as they don't annoy me or are about to escape).
Yes, I am a survivor main, but I'm interested in other opinions about this.
Comments
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I don't see how a killer that can barely get one survivor on a hook is going to be able to get a 4k with an ebony mori..... I don't mind things as they are, I would just make them less common in the bloodwebs. I get way more of the ebony mori's than the other two. Make the ebonies actually be ultra rare instead of common and I would be happy.
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If keys are nerfed, then moris have to be nerfed with them. Simple as that.
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Make it so that you can kill only if you have hooked every single survivor at least once.
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Stop with the damn conditional BS.
Both need to be nerfed/reworked/whatever regardless of the other.
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Encourages one person to immerse for no reason but to deny a mori and feel justified about it. And this is a dumb idea as long as it's possible to use identical skins. 4 hooks.
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mori's should be semi difficult to use the ebony mori is possibly the most braindead thing in this game
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@avilmask You still see the icons, who is injured, if you chase the obsession and other stuff. And if someone is preferring to approach to death hook than granting the mori, would it be so bad?
I think the condition would be fine. In an older thread we had the idea of that condition as well. We just 'reworked' moris completely to say a single mori is killer basekit after every survivor got hooked. And the moris add +1/+2/+3 to it. But currently the stats show killers are all above 2k on average, so a basekit mori would probably not be much appreciated. Survivor mains would yell about that in any way I guess :)
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I agree hooking everyone once would be a bad idea, but 4 hooks would be bad too. With that scenario two survivors could end up getting mori'd without even being hooked once.
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Except when you're plague, except when survivors don't heal (hello, 4 man adrenaline), except when you don't camp and don't see people getting unhooked and healed.
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I'm a killer main on PS4. I don't really find the red mori enjoyable to use. I tend to only use it the for the same reasons you mentioned, if I have a kill by hand daily. Depending on how the match is going I may use it early to secure it (if gens are being done like crazy), otherwise I typically play the match out as if I don't have a mori.
It's incredibly boring to use as a killer and face as a survivor group (just my opinion).
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I don't see why everyone compares keys to mori. If you lose 4 survivors to the hatch that means they did 5 gennys anyway. But if you hook one person camp and tunnel with a mori they are out of the game and lose a pip.
If one or two escape who really cares, just start a new game right? You still got points and probably black pip at least. And killer can still close the hatch if they were not all together at the time.
I see the instaheals as more comparable to the mori. They were nerfed so should the red mori.
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@avilmask Except survivors running different items, except stalking single targets with ghost face, except people cleansing or catching them while healing with nurses. Shall we battle? This is all conditional. I'm not saying it will never happen, just in the majority of games it is not that hard to determine in game who is on death hook and who I have not found yet. If you play with obsession perks like STBFL or PWYF you get used to it
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In majoirty of games people don't feel obligated to immerse and use identical skins, because there's no real reason to do so.
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Shouldn't be what it currently is, no offering should have such an impact on the match.
Same goes for map offerings and arguably even the ones that mess with hook distribution (can't remember if they stack to be fair)
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I suggested before that they should make Ebony Mori require all 4 survivors to be hooked at least once before you can use it.
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FD full time for all items and chest, till a better perk comes out.
the issue is that Mori is only @ play when survivors are caught and hooked, with all the survivor buffs normal non sweaty killers arent 4k'ing nor are the getting survivors to Mori them in the 1st place.
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Especially since the pink Mori is more common than the green Mori (on all of my Killers I have way more pink Moris then Green Moris...), the pink Mori should be changed.
Either by every Survivor being hooked once OR after a certain number of Hooks overall (4 Hooks maybe)... So if the Killer got 4 Hooks in total, he can start using the Mori. This would at least avoid games being lost on the Survivor Side when the Killer tunnels and moris someone basically instantly, making it a early 3v1, which should result in an ez win for the Killer.
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Moris are a proof that proves how unbalanced this game is. Just a offering that transform a (ideal) 12 hooks match into a 4 hook match and mori, even without talk about how this f..... offering encourages killers to camp and tunnel and make a match unfun.
Devs, please, fix the true problem of this game, the game time, and you'll see how all the others problems will fix like magic...
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So your guess is, if the 4 hook condition comes to play, we will have an incredibly raised number of same skinned survivor groups confusing the killer in fear of a mori offering?
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I would definitely do.
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Justification of doing nothing maybe a coutner play. Using cosmetics to counter ultra-rare add-on - yes, this silly.
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Just change it so you have to 2 hook a survivor before killing them.
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I don't think moris and keys are comparable because I think we all know that moris beat anything a surivior can throw at a killer. Then again it would make sense to have both of them nerf.
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Yeahhh, a rework is basically a nerf. Just ask Legion :D
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Freddy says otherwise.
But in this case it would be justified.
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If a killer is 4k with a red mori, The ONLY WAY he is pipping is if he waits out the kills. If he kills all 4 people after the first hook or sits and camp till he can kill them then he will barely scrape a black pip if that much at all.
Just like instantly using a key after a 2min window. It is a scrape of a black pip. No one is out there wasting keys/moris like this. At least with the key you get to keep it(escape/black hand) with the mori its gone for good.
There is nothing wrong with ebony mori.
There is nothing wrong with keys.
Just people upset things didnt go their way.
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How much times do you see killers with mori? I'm very rarely and this offering rather for fun, not for serious game. When killer tired by tryharding, for example, and take memento to calm lite match, or for daily quests, or even if he see toxic SWF in lobby and decide to beautiful dismember them)
I have too many red mori, but don't use them, cause it's boring.
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Are you guys colorblind? When did they become red
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This is red.
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So pink/magenta became red? Interesting.
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Except you have a really strong game... kill one survivor and everyone else is death hook. You have a three gen going on and are pressuring them hard and then they all escape for free with a key..
Mori's and keys are both very powerful.. they need touched a bit. For instance both purple and red key shouldn't open hatch only red key. Give purple extra seconds of use or something. Also they should be much harder to find. I found 3 in one game with pluderers....
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Get rid of all keys and moris. That's my opinion.
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I think mori offerings should be removed but the yellow one should be built in and keys should only open hatch if the killer has closed it before hand.
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wut that's pink
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the balance change I have in mind for the Moris is that moris stay the same across the board BUT to use a mori you need to hook every survivor at least 1 time
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Ebony Moris should get changed. So should keys. They do basically the same thing, shorten the objective drastically. I don't got that big problem with instas.
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I came here to make war. Now fight
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All fear the ruby mori !!!
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Nuh mori does not need to be changed, there is no benefits to mori, the killer is only depriving themselves of bloodpoint by bringing in a mori, it's used more nowadays for dailies/quest/showcasing of mori then actual being used for getting kills.
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I like this idea!
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I wouldn't change them.
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In my opinion, after having insta heals nerfed, they still need to nerf Mori's, keys, and certain killer addons that are still too strong. Like Iridiscent Head. Luckily, Prayer Beads is being nerfed in the upcoming patch.
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Since they said that they didn't want to have anything in the game which changes the outcome of the trials drastically, I'm about 95% confident that they're already working on changes to the Ebony Mori.
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You don't pip from a red Mori, it's unfun yes but so are alot of things in this game that are being kept anyway.
If it gave easy pips then yeah it would need to be looked at but currently it's fine.
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What if the Red Mori activated when all the generators are complete? Basically if you hooked them before, during, or after the generators are completed then you could mori them. Now I know this might make the mori challenge harder, but let's be honest, it's better that because in the current situation, if survivors ######### enough it'll get removed. But for real, it would give good survivors a chance to actually escape from zed bad killer who didn't deserve the kill. I play more survivor than killer but still consider myself a killer main, so I think this would be a nice compromise, plus, it would discourage tunneling and camping. @DarkBarbarian
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Here are my thoughts on the matter. My go to for keys would be not to mess with them. But if you DID, I would make it so keys could only open hatches that the killer had kicked shut as part of the collapse. For moris, I've had an idea for how they could be used to help patch an issue with killers.
While I don't think they're worthless, I find hex perks too swingy. I've gone matches where they've never been found, and I've had matches where they get deleted immediately and I'm down a perk due to random chance. My idea is this: when a hex totem is cleansed (with the exception of haunted ground) the killer gains the ability to kill the survivor who did it by their own hand, following the current hook rules. This does not inform the killer who the survivor is in any way until the kill prompt comes up. Ebony moris are then changed to allow killing of 3 survivors following the current rules. This way, a four kill is only achieved by bringing four hex perks and getting all four cleansed by all four survivors, or by bringing a combination of hexes and moris.
As an addendum, I think it would be good for the health of the game to make all offerings with the exception of blood point offerings secret. If nothing else, do this for me, devs.
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Yes that would be the exception to the rule. It just doesn't seem to happen all that often. I have had maybe one game when more than two survivors escaped through the hatch.
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I see where you are coming from and where a lot of other people are coming from...maybe a combination of ideas wouldn’t be bad. Someone mentioned the idea of having yellow moris built into the game. Although this would definitely be fun as a killer, it wouldn’t be fun on the surviving end because there have been so many games with clutch plays with borrowed time or MoM where it can make the difference between a team being able to save their teammate where with a yellow mori that would decently counter any clutch plays at the end of a game. I think your comment about only allowing ebony keys to escape from a hatch could be onto something. Someone else mentioned maybe making keys only available if the killer closes the hatch? What if red keys can be used to escape a hatch before and a purple only if your the last survivor or if the killer has already closed the hatch? Lemme know your thoughts on that guys.
Ebony moris on the other hand are very common in the bloodweb and completely change the outcome of a game before it ever gets the chance to start. Some of you suggested that maybe an ebony mori should only be available after hooking every survivor and some of you suggested that it should be available after 4 hooks regardless of whom. If that’s the case then I would suggest 5 but we also have to keep in mind many people DC whether on purpose or not. How would this fit in to this mori requirement? What if it’s a 3v1 rather than a 4v1? I think we can all agree ebony moris should be more rare in the bloodweb - like an ebony key for example. Green moris should also be rare. What if ebony moris were available after every survivor has been hooked/or 5 hooks total and they can mori everyone. And green moris had the same requirements (but debatably 1 less hook if we’re going that route) but you can only mori 2 survivors? Tell me your thoughts guys.
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Hey guys! I completely forgot about this discussion. I'm glad this evolved into a civilized discussion about pro and cons (and about the red mori's actual color 😛). :)
- One of the posts above suggested making moris available after the gens are complete.
- I do not like this idea. Sure, it would punish bad killers who don't deserve the kill but it would punish killers who do deserve it as well. If all 4 survs are alive at the end, there is no reason to run a red/pink/magenta/ruby mori. A killer would get 2 moris at most, most likely 1 or 0.
The red mori is in the game to get a 4k. But it shouldn't be a guaranteed 4k. Yes, I know, it isn't like "run red mori => 4k" but it's still way too easy to get one (for a price of 7k bloodpoints and with a rarity that's not really ultra rare).
In my ideal world the red mori would make a key difference to rounds and only those rounds, where (example!) all survivors are on their last hook but still escape because you made a mistake, chased one survivor for too long, or whatever. I think you get my point, I'd wish the red mori would close the gap between a nearly (and deserved) 4k and an actual 4k.
The big problem I have is that this offering can make a 4v1 into a 3v1 because of one quickly found (then hooked and tunneled) survivor. With a red mori, the round is lost in most cases no matter what the remaining survs are doing (with a green one I still see the possibility to activate 5 gens). With a reworked mori that quickly found survivor would give the killer a huge advantage (early hook and possibly another one when they try to rescue) but doesn't mean the killer has won (=4k) the round. Again, there are exempts from that but from my experience most of the 3v1 games are a loss for survivors.
- Suggestion: Make the yellow mori built in
- I'd say that is a fair point. If you are the last survivor and are downed what are you able to do besides wiggling out of the killer's grasp (which won't happen in most cases because, let's be honest, most of the time the hooks are hugging each other)?
- Disconnection and a possibly reworked mori (like 5 hooks before it activates)
- My suggestion: A disconnect should count as 1 or 2 hooks. If one survivor disconnects it punishes the team (and even the killer) whether or not a mori is present. Having it count as 0 hooks it would punish the killer as he maybe won't be able to mori one surv at all. On the other hand, having it count as 3 hooks would punish the survs even more, considering they are now very close to becoming moriable (think of a surv that was two times on the hook already).
Most killer mains aren't reading my post anymore I guess but now I will talk about the keys. Yes, they should be changed as well.
- Suggestion: Let the red key open the hatch without conditions and have conditions for the purple key.
- I really like this idea. It would force survivors to actually decide whether they are bringing a red or a purple key (instead of randomly picking one as it is right now). I also would like to see a use case for the key where it isn't meant to open the hatch but rather get its use from its addons.
While keys are being compared to moris I'd like to point out that it is much harder to pull off a key play than it is to pull off a mori play. As already said, losing 4 survs to the hatch means they did 5 gens. Moriing one survivor can mean they were tunneled and killed within the first 2 minutes of the game.
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