Spirit rework
the spirit is consistently ranked as one of the least fun killers to play against, this is because of the complete lack of counterplay and the fact almost everytime she phases its just a 50/50 guess that could go either way, i recently thought of a pretty decent fix to this. now if you have been around for a while you would remeber how the old freddy would have to pull survivors into the dream state with his porwer and during the seven second transition period, freddy would dissapear and reappear with periodically and the minuet amount of really good freddy players knew excactly when he would dissapear and reappear and could use this to make it seem as if he was running one way around a pallet then about 3 seconds later they would appear around the other way and smack you and this could be a really fun addition the game where spirit activites her power a second into her phase she drops like a decoy sort of and you get a red flash on your screen showing that a decoy is there this allows more proper mindgames to be done and allows more counterplay that would make the survivors game more fun
Comments
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Git gud. Ez fix.
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lol survivors have enough fun.....
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Dont fix something that's not broken
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its not broken but could be tweaked so that survivors have more chance than just guessing
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Run Iron Will and/or Fixated to delete her power entirely. Spine Chill also tells you if she's phasing or faking it. if she's at a pallet or window, you can also see the shards on her legs/body light up blue
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We should also tweak decisive strike users being able to hop on gens or grab a locker? That has no counter play either?
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Yeah the spirit is way more fun than facing say a Myers for instance because she changes how both sides play...now that she no longer has collision and her best addons were smashed with a hammer she should be left alone..at the end of the day the killers job is to oppose you..not ne an npc thrill ride for just the survivors..if you have an issue vs spirit iron will, spine chill, and qaq are very good perks to use..after that just learn to read and predict. Killers do it all the time..your welcome
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Can't run for 5 gens, clearly unfun and needs nerf....
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Now I admamatly hate this killer so much and fully support her having an entirely new kit instead, but for this argument I still don't think that'd work. Sure there's some counterplay there but if I'm understanding it correctly that just deleted the entire point of the survivor not knowing where you are.
Personally I think it'd be nice to have a shimmer of sorts like the wraith trailing behind, make it actually difficult to see with a slight delay or something that fades in and out of the background. A subtle hint would be nice.
The spirit uses stridor and you're injured. Those two perks do nothing then. Spine Chill is very helpful but as a solo survivor trying to have a fun game needs three perks already so good luck adding two too many in there.
You shouldn't need a perk just to enjoy the game. "Oh but [Killer perk] is needed to have fun!" and it shouldn't be that way either. Don't force other people into the same ######### situation, but instead make the devs change your situation. Dragging people down so nobody has fun or raising yourself up to everyone has fun--which one sounds better?
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The main problem is, that the more counterplay you create the less viable a killer is against swf. You know why nurse, spirit, freddy and ghostface are above average killers? Because they lack counterplay, either due to design or bugs.
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But nurse, ghostface, freddy, Billy, huntress- every killer on the roster has counterplay without needing to dedicate 3/4 of your perk build to countering them. Spirit is the one exception and that's what makes her so unfun to face.
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She's ranked low on the fun scale because majority of survivors go full potato when they face her and do seriously dumb ######### like slow vault a pallet back into her face.
Don't go full potato and there wouldn't be a problem.
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Guessing is one of the purposes of Spirit! Even when playing here she has very little information to go off of to find and down a survivor and she's one of the few killer's that if she makes a mistake she deserves to suffer for it. Nerfing Spirit even further will literally make her like Nurse, unfun to play as.
As a Spirit main I can confirm these weaknesses (except you have to legit be skin on skin contact touching her for her shards to light up.) I've learned to play around Iron Will, but Spine Chill is a super kryptonite for her, depending on if the survivor is still running or not, since running footsteps are audible
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I disagree with you. 😂
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Rank 1 Spirit main here. She definitely has counterplay as she is right now. It's like a lot fo survivors forget that they leave scratch-marks, or can double-back. I can honestly say a whole bunch of ways to counter-play her such as sprinting away when she's on the other side of a pallet, then walking back a second later. Or dropping a pallet early when she's in phase so you drop it in front of you, making her think you're on the other side. Even a simple one of guessing which way she's going to come from, something that you would do with, oh, I don't know.. EVERY OTHER DAMN KILLER. Seriously, everyone acts like every mindgame a person can do at a loop isn't a guessing game.. Just don't be an idiot and panic, you'll soon see that she's nowhere near as bad to play against as people make her out to be. If you truly, truly, don't have a clue on what you're doing against her, run Spine chill, Iron Will and Dead Hard. Spine chill tells you she's on her way, Iron Will makes you unhearable or just extremely quiet if she has Stridor, and Dead Hard let's you dodge a hit when she comes out of phase.
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Iron Will is a big fat counter...
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Even with a build tailored to counter the Spirit, as you've described, she would still down you. Dead hard doesn't work half the time and when it does, its only mitigates one swing. Also, you shouldn't have to tailor your build to counter one killer, when you don't know what killer you're getting. People always say, "Just run X perk...", that's easy to say in a forum, it's not possible mid-match. I find the unpredictability of Spirit really hard to deal with. She is easily my least favorite killer. Because as much as you'd like to say, "guess which way she's going to come from like every other killer..", which every other Killer it is not a guess. There is typically a visual and a sound element to their direction. She does not. So as the OP states, every decision you make is a 50/50 shot, and she is getting more information than you are...so I would argue its less than that.
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Can people please stop suggesting Iron Will as a counter to Spirit when Stridor counters it and a ton of Spirits run Stridor? Any other tips are obviously fine but Iron Will is literally useless against a Spirit with Stridor and semi-decent hearing. Thank you.
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Entitlement pure and simple rework the killer so i know where shes at at all times so i can ez loop her for 5 gens
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She isn't the most fun but she isn't game-breaking bad like Ghostface or Legion.
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This...
People act as though whenever you mind game anything its not a guessing game. It is. Both killers and survivors deprive the other side of information in the hopes that they will make the wrong read. Not all mind games are like this, some are more reactive, some give more information than others. But with every killer and every survivor there are situations where you have to make a guess.
A typical example is when you, as a killer, lose line of sight and try to mind game, only to find out that the survivor just held W and is now miles away from you. If they're not injured its perfectly likely that you could not hear them in any way, so you had a 50/50 guess game and lost. Thing is, that was also a gamble from the survivor, cuz they kept holding W in the hopes you would try to mind game and lose distance.
The spirit does the same, except depriving you of info is part of her base kit. She's very hard to face because as a survivor you need to know how a spirit thinks, and you have to make a read. I actually find spirit to be one of the most fun killers to face, specifically because when you juke her consistently you are quite literally inside her head, instead of just just using your 3rd person to see exactly what she's doing.
Piece of advise to anyone having issues with spirit. Play as spirit for a while and learn how she thinks and what info she needs. See what survivors that juke you or beat you did to confuse you. Keep track of her power usage. For every second of phasing she has to wait 3 seconds for it to charge back at base. Use that against her. Even good spirit players can make wrong reads and you can juke them. And your job as a survivor is to try and prolong chases for long enough for your team to do gens, which is perfectly doable against a Spirit, just like any other killer. Except, the killer's skill can actually have a pretty big impact in it.
I do think that the indication that she is phasing could be a bit more obvious while remaining subtle. I like the idea of the shards lighting up, but as far as i know that doesnt work with most of her cosmetics and the shine is ridiculously subtle. Id make it just a tad brighter and obviously make it so it works on all her outfits. It even opens more options for mind games.
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"Iron Will". And?
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Believe it or not, you don't HAVE to grab the survivor when they're sticking a gen or hiding in a locker.... when they stick the gen, just lunge to down them instead of grabbing them, and leave them until the DS runs out. Or better yet, just take the DS and then get them anyway, since they only have the capability to get about 20 meters away from you before the stun wears off! And for the locker DSers, I just stare at them and leave and wait for their DS to run out (or take it anyway as well)! It usually works out 😎
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Alright, I'm going to just explain to you how I believe you are wrong, but first I would like to say how much I love that you ignored the two incredibly easy plays you can do to help lose or lengthen a chase against a Spirit.
But now, on to how you are wrong. The build I gave was not "Tailored for the Spirit" it is a good build to run against every Killer. The fact you think that the build is designed solely around Spirit and should only be used against a Spirit, says to me you don't like to run other perks. I'm guessing you like a certain set of perks and don't want to experiment or anything of that sort. So you are wrong in that you need to run a perk to counter her specifically.
Onto how I didn't say "guess which way she's going to come from like every other killer," and how I said "guessing which way she's going to come from, something that you would do with, oh, I don't know.. EVERY OTHER DAMN KILLER." This statement is actually, factually, 100% True. You can hear her footsteps even in phase, you can see her standing still during a chase, meaning she's in phase, and you can use both of these alone to figure out where she's coming from. With that, you can do one of the plays you ignored, such as throwing a pallet down early, or doubling-back slowly. Both of these can screw over a Spirit and they're not even the only things you could do.. Hell, if you aren't grunting, you can stand still after a second of her standing still, and she won't have ANY info on where you are.
So to recap, yes, you can guess which way she is coming from, and yes, the guessing game is the EXACT SAME, as ANY OTHER KILLER. It's about understanding how the opposition plays, and trying to counter their playstyle. This is true for both sides and every, single, killer. If you want more tips on how to counter most Spirit players, I'll gladly answer any questiomns. Even if you'll ignore them again.
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Really? Didnt know that at all! Thats cool!
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This is the exact change otz went over in one of his videos. I'm guessing you watched that already? I'd be all for this. While I don't think she'd need anything to compensate for this change, if Spirit mains would really whine about this so much, maybe allow her to either see the heartbeat of a nearby survivor when she blinks into view, or allow her to see blood for a brief period of time?
If she got a change like this I would actually take spirit players seriously when they talk about her mindgames because she would actually have some with a feature like this.
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The thing is that when you are in chase the pallets are totally unsafe because of the 50/50 guess and that's a huge problem in the gameplay. Spirit is in my opinion way too unbalanced.
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My only complaint with spirit is the fact that she just randomly turns invisible when not using her power which makes chases more luck based rather then skill based as it’s completely random and can occur at any point making it so no one can play off it and it just makes chases unfun when you have to do a 50/50 that’s forced rather than the killer planning and setting one up.
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She's not really unbalanced or overpowered overall though. In a 1v1 absolutely, but she will still have a pretty tough time against good survivors. Same goes for Deathslinger.
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So what you're saying is you're upset because you can't just use the same strategy for Spirit that you can do for the majority of other Killers? That's literally the entire point of having different Killers. Unlike Survivors, Killers aren't just skins of each other(usually). It makes sense for a strategy for facing say, Trapper or Bubba would be different from Huntress, Demogorgon, Nurse or Spirit
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Sorry but I'm gonna have to disagree. She is very fun and needs no changes.
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I knew there was some... Let's say not-so-smart person that would change the topic of the discussion saying "if they nerf [killer thing] then they have to nerf [survivor thing]"
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Well the spirit is now my favorite killer and I'm a survivor main...She does require you to adapt to her playstyle kinda like nurse but her skillgap is nowhere near as hard as The Nurse. But just like Nurse in skilled hand she a force to reckon with.
Plus spooky Japanese school, come on guys, she's ######### scary.
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I would say what I truly want to say to you but I dont wanna get another warning from mandy even though he's a pretty cool guy but have you ever heard "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" if you are a person who has an IQ above room temperature(doubt it) You would know that to balance the game. A huge nerf to killer would only warrant a nerf of equal balance to survivor. It's literally how balance works. That's why everyone is always warranting an equal nerf to survivor. The last time they nerfed killers without making an equal one to survivors the ps4 matchmaking times went kerplunk
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To you she might be ranked as the most unfun to play against, but i hope for her almost every survivor game.
There IS more than just guessing, sound makes it easier for her but its up to you to not stay at loops when she phases, or up to you to see the cues she is phasing and using your brain figure out if you need to silently vault something, walk away, even run in circles if you have few options, it very well can throw them off and buy you more time.
Its different facing her than most killers and people arent used to it. I guess what helps me against her is i mained the hell outta her when she released and i just usually think "what would i do?" when im against a spirit.
You need to pay attention to when she phases and change gameplan when she does, be an unpredictable as possible.
Again, sounds make it easier and i would say that bringing back the volume of the phase she would hear from her PTB can help reduce easier tracking through sounds.
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Because Iron Will is such a low tier perk that has absolutely no value against any other killer. /s
If you don't camp the pallet then it's not unsafe.
Also for anyone wanting to say the stand still trick isn't intended or some BS, the game LITERALLY tells you to do this...
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The one change that makes her more fun for both side, I presume you got this idea from Otz:
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As someone who uses iron will religiously, I'm aware of the value it has. Unfortunately when playing solo you need a lot of your perk slots to have a fun match (not to stand a chance, to have fun). DS to save you from tunneling as there's no team to communicate to, kindred so people can actually coordinate, usually then an exhaustion perk and one other perk of your choice. To counter spirit you'd need to put on iron will and probably spine chill, iron will then being countered by stridor too making the perk a lot more useless than it usually is.
I admit you don't need any perks to escape as survivor, but to have fun is a different story. You shouldn't need to run a perk to counter a style of play. This goes for killers and for survivors, and shows the issues with the game.
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I run Calm Spirit because I hate Doctor. I run Spine Chill to counter stealth killers. I run Iron Will to help in chases and maintain stealth (and it helps a lot against Spirits which is a big plus). I'll run BT if I get a lot of campy killers. I'll run DS if I get a lot of tunneling killers. I'll bring a key or run Plunderer's if I get a lot of mori's. I'll bring a medkit and/or healing perks to counter anti-heal builds.
Likewise I run perks on killers to counter specific survivor tactics. I use Sheep Block on Freddy SPECIFICALLY to counter OOO, because OOO is devastating against Freddy. I run Whispers on Huntress to counter Urban and stealth perks. I run Stridor on Spirit to counter Iron Will (which BTW isn't even a hard counter, it's a soft counter, since the survivor is still quieter than normal, it just makes it so they can't hide right next to you when injured). I run Brutal on Clown (I rarely play him but still) to counter the very common tactic of dropping pallets early. I run Shadowborn on Nurse and Legion to help with fatigue. I run Thana on Plague to counter survivors that don't cleanse. I run Sloppy on Oni to counter survivor heal builds.
I have absolutely no problem with any of this. Running a perk to counter something is 100% fine. Playing to your opponent's weaknesses has always been a thing, in any game ever.
Also perks are not going to help you have a fun match. If a killer tunnels and you have DS, they are still going to tunnel only more now that you used your DS. Whether you have the perk or not won't change that honestly. I've seen plenty of killers just continue right on tunneling through DS. If you don't want to run a perk then don't, but you're fooling yourself if you think using a perk to counter something will result in more fun.
I agree, exposure is a major part of it. I feel like if more PC players would come on over to Xbox they would actually learn how to play against Spirit because she is super common at high ranks. Well, she was, I've seen way less of her over the past months (probably because of the nerf to Prayer Beads and the ongoing audio bugs).
But as a Spirit main on Xbox I swear I encounter a TON of survivors that know how to play against her at high ranks. Majority are still full potatoes, but there is a hefty amount of survivors that know what to do against her. Probably more than PC or PS, and it comes down to exposure. You had to learn how to counter play her if you wanted to escape (though were a lot that just DC when they see Spirit).
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she can hear breathing, moans,grass moving,scratch marks and footsteps that is literally all you need too determine where a survivor is too get a free hit and everyone that says run iron will most spirits use stridor anyway to counter it an iron will dont stop your scratch marks, your actual breathing when in healthy state or footsteps or grass so that just dont work
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you shouldnt have to dedicate perks to counter one specific killer
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I disagree with the post op made but iron will doesn’t actually completely counter her, I’ve actually been able to hit people out of phase still despite them having it. Survivors still move grass and their footsteps still make noise, plus, if you just stop running then I’ll plainly see that your scratch marks are gone and since you’re walking, you won’t be far from where you stopped running so I would usually be able to hit you.
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You got the time to wait 60 seconds in front of a locker? You must play in yellow ranks!
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Yeah Spine chill [one of the perks you listed], is useful against more than just spirit. Ghostface, Wratih. Myers. Anyone who can be sneaky, it can be a really useful benefit against and stop them from sneaking up on you. Heck it can really be useful against any killer, when in a chase, due to faster vaulting speed. Can give you information, if you should stay on a gen or get out of dodge. A survivor who runs spine chill, will get some benefit out of it. No matter who the killer is. Anyone who says it only useful against spirit, i don't think has run spine chill or understand just how good it can be. The other perks, iron will and dead hard, i think speak for themselves.
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Ever since I started running Iron Will, Spirit's have trouble finding me. I like to mindgame my scratchmarks as well, makes it a whole lot easier!
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Most spirits in my experience aren’t very good but trust me, you will find one that can counter iron will, problem is that it is one of the hardest parts of spirit (excluding stridor).
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people don’t wanna admit standing still isn’t a mind game lol
saying take iron will isn’t a counter since YOU CANT SEE WHAT THE KILLER IS
the people on this site give me headaches with what they say
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