Potential Camping Nerf Idea?
So I understand the concept of Survivors abusing a system where if the Killer is close to the hook the hook progress slows down. You could just loop around the hook, wait there, etc. Obviously not a great idea.
I originally had a solution but I think this refined one from @CheersTC is much better: "if the killer is within 16 meters, and isn't in a chase, the timer goes down 50% slower. Can't be abused by survivors or killers."
Edit: Disables during EGC
Comments
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The main problem with this is now killers could abuse it instead. They see it's going down at a normal speed? They're going to camp now.
The best change I can think of is if the killer is within 16 meters, and isn't in a chase, the timer goes down by 50%. Can't be abused by survivors or killers.
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I like that idea more actually. I'll change the post.
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But in all seriousness, what happens to the Killer who hooks someone next to their three gen? Ive had games like that where I hook them dead center in my three gens, under this nerf now Im getting punished for defending my gens to prevent a possible escape.
Also 48 is WAY to much. Depending on the size of the map, that means a Killer would be considered "camping" if they were within 1/4th of the map.
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The 48 meters was in regards to the Survivors. Camping is a legit strat at times, but if Survivors are literally not there you should be punished.
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Glad you do ^^
Also if you can change it to 50% slower, just incase people take it the wrong way.
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How would that work on small maps? There would be no slowdown at all.
Seems fine, but should deactivate during endgame.
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You could just replace the killer with a bot for survivors and replace the survivors with bots for the killer.
Boom! 90% of the "toxicity" problems solved. Well, most of the fun too, but eh... who cares about fun?
Next...
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Maybe it could be map dependent. Size of map determines the amount of meters you need to be away.
If nobody is near the unhook during end game I don't see the issue with it still being slower.
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So did you actually have an opinion on this or are you just here to derail another thread?
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Exit is open and I camp
Why should killers be punished for strategies that help them?
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I'm moreso talking about when the match is still going on (before the gens are done). I wouldn't have a problem with this being disabled at EGC.
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And If you hook someone near an opened exit gate?
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I edited my post after another person also posted something similar. I'd be okay with this mechanic being disabled at EGC.
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Will do Rizzo
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Thanks for resolving that Rizzo. Have a great day :)
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this would only benefit the survivors so what's your point?you think survivors near the hook with no killer arround will just watch the hooked survivors instead?lmao next time you come up with an ideea make sure it benefits both sides just as much
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What? Since when was camping someone to death when nobody is nearby a positive thing for this game? It creates boring game play on both sides and rewards less points to both sides.
The Killer isn't punished for camping tactically when they need to, but you should be punished for playing scummy and just camping everyone to death. Nobody is having fun at that point.
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its not but you know sometimes there are gens nearby and you have no reason to leave especially when the survivors are just camping and waits for you to leave
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I don't think you actually read my post because I literally addressed this. If the Survivor is nearby, this rule doesn't apply.
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I approved of the idea of CheersTC very cautiously. This does not punish the killer enough. This only pushes the problem further, giving more time to other survivors to repair the generators. But for the camped survivor, that hardly changes anything. Worse, he can spend more time on his hook doing nothing before experiencing the same tragic end.
I've been thinking about another approach since today: giving powerful effects directly to the camped survivor (with similar activation conditions, of course). It's very simple: Borrowed Time, Deliverance. After 15 seconds of cumulative camping, the camped survivor obtains the Borrowed Time effect. After 30 seconds, it also obtains the effect of Deliverance. Free.
I think it is extremely dissuasive. The killer no longer has any interest in abusing this easy hostage-taking, forcing the other survivors to approach the killer (the logic of the game being precisely the opposite), under the blackmail of ruining the experience of 'one of the players.
Small disadvantage, it only works for the first time hooked, but it seems to me a very good start, maybe enough.
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I also meant gens
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Lore wish it makes sense. The entity feeds on hope and it would make sense survivors would be consumed slower if the killer is revving a chainsaw 2 inches away from them. They already nerfed gen speeds which just buffs camping even further. The entity should ensure both sides play fair since it already blocks windows for survivors and blocks exits for killers.
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or just, you know, do gens
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The progress is still going down regardless. Not like you will never kill the person due to having the 3-gen.
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This is one of the main reasons I like the idea so much. It even fits lore-wise. People have a misconception that the Killer just has to kill, but that isn't their job. They have to feed the Entity with the hope from the survivors. A survivor in a 100% lose situation should be consumed slower for sure.
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This + doing gens ensures the Killers that do camp like that figure out another strategy or take even heavier L's. We don't want to promote this type of gameplay.
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I guess it depends on how big that radius is. I'm just thinking about situations where one side 3 gens themselves, then goes down and gets hooked.
If a killer hooks a survivor in the middle of three gen and sticks around to defend both, should the killer be punished for the survivors' error?
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The way I see it, that Survivor is doomed to die regardless. If you're able to protect the hook and the 3 gens, what are they really supposed to do other than watch that timer go down or focus a gen?
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Sounds like a nice idea to me personally,camping is boring anyway for both sides. Dunno who finds it fun to stand near a hook for a minute at 5 gens and similar lmfao
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The effect of a 3 gen can be incredibly pronounced when we look at how generator can be spawned in general. If broken early, then the survivors have an easier time completing the other gens because of the distance the killer has to travel between the them.
A 3 gen does not halt game progression, it only delays it. A killer can make a choice between chasing survivors off a gen but guarding the hook or get another down while risking a the hooked/gen. What each side decides to do matters immensely because they have till the hooked guy is dead to commit to a decision that can have a game changing consequence.
Giving the guy on the hook more time makes 3 gens less punishing for survivors overall.
That's why I ask if the killer should be punished for something the survivors got themselves into.
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There are legit reasons to camp a hook, for example when all the other survivors are coming in for the save and give the killer no reason to leave the hook.
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I suppose I think this would be okay if the killer could always know if a survivor is nearby. I don't face camp so it wouldn't really affect me, but I do proximity camp on rare occasion. Unless I'm running Whispers or happen to see scratch marks, I really don't know for sure if there is another survivor nearby. If neither of these are true and I just happen to suspect another survivor is nearby, it's probable I'm going to be penalized without even knowing it. That hardly seems fair.
Under these circumstances, how am I supposed to know if I am being penalized when no survivors are within range? I suppose there must be some sort of notification. If there is a notification, then this discussion could make sense. Although, it would obviously be abusable because killers could know a survivor is nearby without using the perk specifically designed for that purpose. In fact, it could be abused by both sides... especially once the survivors know what the range looks like in-game. They could just easily crouch right outside of range, forcing the killer back out of fear of being penalized. This seems counter to the concept of ruthless killers trying to kill scared survivors who are desperately trying to escape. Also, with a notification, they could pop in and out of range to create notification spam. SWFs could surround the radius with two survivors trying to keep the killer bouncing back and forth without really knowing where they are (unless the notification revealed their auras) while the last survivor just finished gens unhampered. The alternative is the killer runs off to go find the last survivor while leaving two to three survivors free to rescue and heal each other and possibly cap another generator because, let's face it, the last survivor could be just about anywhere...
Like I suggested earlier, it might be easier just to replace the opposition with bots.
Edited... for clarity.
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So that would essentially be line of sight then, right? I mean, they could just be hiding behind a rock sitting behind a rock or some other obstruction. We could suspect the same, be wrong, and still be penalized without knowing it.
Sorry, it was 40-something meters originally. I missed the edit.
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I feel like most of this is remedied by this only activating if the Killer isn't in an active chase AND within 16 meters of the hooked survivor. If people try to hook bomb or you initiate a chase nearby, the timer progresses as normal.
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Yeah sorry about that. Someone commented a better suggestion that remedies these kinds of situations. What do you think of the updated version?
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I think camping is the reason this game will never be as popular as some other games. Too much of the gameplay is already holding M1 as survivor, and when you're being camped you either have to be bored for 2 minutes or ######### and reward the killer for camping. I can't even really blame people who kill themselves against campers, because they play the game to have fun and not sit on a hook for 2 minutes. Let's be real, outside of a very coordinated SWF or highly skilled solos that have good game sense it is very difficult to punish camping to the extent it should. The killer is basically refusing to play the game normally so camping should guarantee a loss. If the killer is camping it takes time to run and check the hook, it takes time to run to multiple gens, it takes time to do totems, and it takes time to power the exit gates. 2 minutes for a survivor is not enough on hook, especially with high mobility killers like spirit, multiple slowdown perks like thanatophobia and dying light, and perks like NOED that force survivors to Gen Rush. And I'm not talking about exit gates are powered so the killer tries to secure a kill camping. I'm talking about killers camping at 5 gens for no reason or when the killer is losing so they decide to hard camp someone.
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I think this would be a great change for the game for those very reasons. If they want to camp, it has to be outside of 16 meters at least so saves are a lot more possible. Either that or they will be on the hook for a much longer time to punish the killer further.
This gameplay is still boring, but by providing more time to punish the killer, I feel they will learn to not do this.
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I agree with these criticisms and decided to change it to what someone suggested in the comments. What do you think of the refined version?
Hook timer slows down by 50% if Killer is within 16 meters of the hooked survivor unless they are in chase, then it progresses as normal. Disables at End Game Collapse.
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I Iike your suggestion but not the part where it disables the EGC. The EGC should always be in play.
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How about just getting rid of the hook from the game entirely?
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I'm far less opposed to it now, to be honest. As a survivor, I hate being face camped and that seems to be the real target of this idea. 16 meters still allows for proximity camping which can be situational and fair.
By proximity camping, I'm just referring to line of sight. Sometimes if I know there is a survivor nearby but I don't know where, I circle the hook, spiraling out trying to spot the other survivor. It depends on the map, of course. The point is that I don't stand near the survivor, even while proximity camping. I'm constantly moving, trying to find anyone nearby. Even then, it's very rare as I usually just hook them and run off to disrupt generator repair elsewhere. The only real exception to this for me is if they happen to unhook the survivor too soon and I know I can make it back before their scratches vanish or if I can actually see them.
With a short range, this kind of penalty is an easy sell on me anyway. I tend to prefer farming with the survivors and my best matches have ended with everyone getting 20k points or more. I actually have a presentation I'm preparing on that subject, but that's beside the point. In other words, I would never intentionally face camp.
I rescind my earlier objection or insistence for some sort of notification because, really, any change like this could sting when first implemented. We would get used to it after awhile and, dare I say, adapt. I'd just hate to see it create an unreasonable "safety bubble" around the hooked survivor for safe unhooking.
My only other concern at this point is a situation where the last survivors are hooked and then you get a toxic player who will just stand there and hold the ending hostage by intentionally making the hook count down at 50% with no chance of being unhooked by someone else (even without the EGC). I don't know if that was addressed, but I guess if everyone alive was hooked and on stage 2, the timer penalty would be void. OR, perhaps people abusing this system to draw out hook time to gain more bloodpoints than they should for struggling. Though, I suppose a limit on the possible struggle points would solve that. Well... that's that, then.
By the way... I can't do this privately so I'll just ask you to accept my apology for my part of our earlier disagreement. The other discussion got under my skin a bit more than I'd usually allow (even moreso than the actual act we were discussing which, at this point, makes me laugh) and I honestly did not realize you were the originator of this post. In hindsight, I can understand both of our reactions and mine was certainly inappropriate.
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It disables at EGC, not it disables the EGC haha
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Oh lol, now I like it.
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I'm glad you like it better now!
And apology accepted, we all have our off moments and I'm far from perfect haha.
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Now we're talking!
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Who loses to someone standing still?
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You'd be surprised.
But also the person who waited in queue just do get deleted after 2 minutes. Extend the time and give him more of a chance.
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I'm all for punishing killers that face-camp, as long as it doesn't punish killers that are patrolling an area because they have no other choice.
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