Hope(not devour) vs NOED
Im not going to go into NOED at all for obvious reasons. Hope in my opinion is severely under rated and is not often used. Adrenaline however, is meta. So why not Hope? I think it has to do with 120 seconds not being long enough. I know in a DbD trial 120 seconds would be the same as 3-4 days to someone waiting for a pizza delivery, but lets be real, matches can last upward of 5 mins after the gens are done sometimes. What if Hope were active for the remainder of the trial instead of being on a timer? Not only would it make it a good counter to NOED, but it would proc people to think outside the box and steer away from the norm. I think it may even boost the perk to meta status. Before anyone says "Duh" and makes a "Remember, Mettle Of Man?" remark. I don't think it would quite go there. I feel like when thinking about if a perk is too strong people have to remember that Borrowed Time, Adrenaline, Iron Will, Decisive Strike, Object Of Obsession, and exhaustion perks still exist. With that said, there's not many buffs you can give survivors that would be comparable to the existing meta besides maybe making keys work on exit gates.(ok, so that's a stretch but not by much)
Comments
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Tell me why I thought this was a devout hope vs noed thread. Lol hope is fine. It's an endgame perk that boosts your base movespeed. Does exactly what it's supposed to and can be a nightmare for anything that's 110 or 4.4
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Hope lasting the entire end game would be broken AF.
There is absolutely nothing you can say that would change that fact.
Adrenaline is meta because of the heal+sprint burst effect. So they can focus on gens and not care about healing. That's why it's prefered over hope.
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I mean what could be nice is Hope lasting for the end of the match if they remain in the healthy state. If they get hit then they lose it
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That's a prime idea, I'll get behind it. I get that infinite Hope would be rather OP if every person ran it, in certain situations. I'm not sure it would be game breaking but I'm open to hear input to better understand. Killers are considerably faster than survivors when running NOED, which if I had to guess(picking a safe number) is run by 30% percent of killers. Or if the boost from hope was dropped to a flat 4% plus 1% for every teammate within a set range(say 6 meters)? It would counter the speed boost from NOED outright and give an extra boost towards the door if u were running alongside anyone(say, after a rescue).
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I do also like hope and it saved me a few times back when I ran it. A bit of a longer duration would probably be nessisary for it to compete with adrenalines sprint burst and health state(also another speed boost on hit). Adrenaline technically being two sprint bursts in one along with a health state is what I think puts it over the consistent speed.
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I really like this perk and I'd really like to be able to recommend a formal change, the trouble is the gap between many players skill level. If hope were to be taken off the timer and be strictly unlimited I can definitely see its potential for abuse to top tier survivors using it in sync with other perks. One could easily make a case like that for multiple perks that already exist. Like I said, nobody wants another menacing perk like MoM was when Ash was first released, but you can't ignore the existing meta and precisely how powerful some of the perks we already have are. We have 72 perks(for survivors) and that number is going up every chapter. I'd like to see more perks of higher value to give people the will and the want to steer away from the same loadouts they have been using for years. There is no reason we shouldn't have at least 50 perks(out of 72 is reasonable) that are either equal in strength or can be combined into a build to be considered meta, or that are unique and fun even if they are not as strong. Many perks get used statistically overall, but there are roughly a dozen perks in either roll that you will NEVER see a match queued without at least one of them being used by each player. That's something I'd like to see changed. Note, this is not a complaint, it's idea.
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im down for it being unlimited, or at least raised to 3 mins.
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Unlimited means 110s cant touch you unless you run into them or huntress hatchet hits. It makes 115 almost into 110 should they chase when it's active. I feel the 2 minutes is fine since it matches the EGC timer i think especially if the killers opens the door in an attemptt to get a Blood Warden play
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110's are 110's for a reason. What happens when a 110 runs NOED? How often does a killer open a door, I'v seen it less than 20 times in my career and I get in about 60-80 matches per day. Not to mention EGC is 2 minutes, most games don't see a door open right away seeing as the meta is to 99 it. The meta won't change if we don't change it.
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If it was infinite it should get nerfed a bit, like 3/4/5%.
However im all on board on buffing Hope.
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Doesn't egc end in 2 minutes normally? It's not like you're holding the killer hostage.
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This would be nice QoL change, not boosting the perk to meta status per se, but bringing it in line with other end game perks which have a permanent effect as well. Either that or they put a timer on NOED KEKW
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Hope activates when the gates are powered (a.k.a. when gens are done), not when the gates are opened.
And I didn't say anything about holding the game hostage.
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Definitely not infinite. If the killer can lose NOED instantly by breaking a totem, it wouldn't justify having zero counter against hope. I like the injured state doesn't allow, or even similar to resilience, where being injured IS what activates it. Kind of feels like that makes the most sense.
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Then there's nothing wrong with making it endless as long as the games aren't endless.
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Ask any decent survivor if they are afraid of looping a t1 myers that has a terror radius and a red stain.
Then come back here and say there isn't anything wrong with it.
You know people say you shouldn't chase with Hag right? Why is that? Could it be because she's 110% and catching up to a survivor is insanely hard if they know what they are doing?
Gee...I wonder what the equivalent of a 108% killer could do against such a survivor... nothing at all? Yes, nothing at all.
I wonder if the 103% killers would have a better chance at this...
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Huntress and deathslinger are the obly 110s capable of damage dealing due to range. Permanent hope makes loops infinites against 110s unless they bloodlust which a survivor can just leave to a new loop against a hag. Yes clown can slow them but it's only by 8% right? Make him waste bottles and he has to bloodlust if not using noed.
I singled out blood warden as the reason killers would open the gates once gens were done since not only does it force them to leave roughly in 2 minutes but if blood warden goes off it forces them to stay 1 minute instead of them opening the gates whever they feel like and waltzing out.
You claim to play 60-80 games a day you should know that a permanent buff to one side while the other maybe gets a removable buff if it isn't prevented is unfair. Now if NOED was permanent like on release before hexs were a thing I agree wholeheartedly.
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You said it would be "broken AF", which it wouldn't. It's not like I said activate it for 2 mins after every gen pops, that would be "broken AF" for sure.
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You're talking about the last 3-5 mins of the trial. If it got that far the player should get a better harness on their killers power(if they're a 110) and study some fundamentals. I understand that every game is different and everyone has good, bad, better, and worse matches but as a rule this is not crippling to killers. We are talking about a perk(remember it has to take up a slot) that only activates at the very end of the trial. I know it might be outright a little strong, but people are coming out of the woods with stating it would be game breaking. First, be a little more open minded while remembering perks like Borrowed Time, Iron Will, and Adrenaline exist. Those ARE over powered when used properly but they are by no means "game breaking", we still have balance. And second, try to be constructive and offer an idea or some input that would help. Saying "No, that's broken AF. Leave it alone." is just leaving the game in it's same getting-stale as it's been for a while(at least for some). Lastly, to the people who embraced the idea for change and threw fuel on the fire with an alternative, thank you.
Post edited by Batman781 on1 -
You can break noed. I'm not defending it or anything i mostly play killer and i KNOW its filthy and only use it when im playing a killer im not comfortable with, eg legion who i recently picked up. But the reason hope is on 120 second limit is for its own reasons. May i remind you that without noed, a survivor running hope is about as fast as huntress. Now, im not saying thats ridiculuous because huntress does have her range and all, but in an endgame rush where perhaps the huntress has exhausted her hatches, she cannot catch the survivor. But your point does still stand, SOMETHING needs to shake the meta up for survivors, Im starting to face consistently 2 red rank survivors in my games now that im in the green ranks (thanks matchmaking) and it usually just the same stuff. DS, Dead hard, borrowed, unbreakable etc.
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I understand the reason, but every example of why NOT on this thread is situational. It's like people are saying we should ban cars in America(or wherever you live) because a child could walk in the street, be struck, and die. Let's be real, would it lead to more escapes, probably. Will it ever be the DIRECT CAUSE of more escapes than any of the meta perks now(Borrowed Time and Decisive Strike specifically), not even remotely close. Those 2 perks combined have have ripped more escapes from the hands of killers after the gens have been completed than any other perk(s), ever. Even a single perk that gave the combined effects of an extra hit like MoM during endgame as well as the same speed boost from Hope would not change that statistic. Ok, that's nonsense but so is labeling this idea a game breaker. I'm simply trying to get people open to new ideas and YES(please, devs) shake up the meta a little bit.
Post edited by Batman781 on0 -
It would be absolutely broken AF.
Killers would literally not be able to do anything after the gens get done.
If you don't think a permanent 7% increase in speed is broken, why not make the killers 122%?
7% is not a big deal at all right?
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All 110% killers have powers that are supposed to make up for speed deficits. Huntress throws hatchets, Hag can place traps, Gunslinger can shoot, Spirit can phase. Therefore that's no argument. If killers can't down someone using their power they don't deserve to get a kill in my book.
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It's a perk, it has to take up one of 4 slots making the player give up something else that would help them during the match with the assumption that they will make it to the end. That's why Adrenaline is a high risk, high reward perk. The same case could be made for NOED but killers would consistently run NOED more often because it has no skill requirement. With this buff, a mistake by the survivor could still cost them the escape, they still have to be able to run with a plan(and sometimes no resources e.g. pallets/windows). Now, if it were paired with Adrenaline it would be extremely powerful, but then you have survivors giving up 2 perk slots to have a better edge during endgame. I stated that I do see how 7% may be a little strong, hence the various other options other people(as well as myself) have put up for adoption. The idea is to think outside the box, which clearly you're not hearing me advocate.
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I feel like the moderators are going to hang me for this but you've backed me into a corner. You're ignorant and closed-minded AF(as you would say). Clearly your skills in this game are not top tier because if they were it would mean you have a better understanding of the games' mechanics and the strategy behind playing(any given) killer. This isn't meant to be disrespectful in any way, it's meant to be honest and accurate.
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It's a perk, it has to take up one of 4 slots making the player give up something else that would help them during the match with the assumption that they will make it to the end.
So, exactly like adrenaline. The meta perk, that swf in special love to use.
With this buff, a mistake by the survivor could still cost them the escape, they still have to be able to run with a plan(and sometimes no resources e.g. pallets/windows)
So if someone plays badly they lose? Oh wow. Didn't think of that.
But I guess the killer can't make mistakes then. After all, if he's not on point for the punish he just won't catch up and have to wait for another mistake
I stated that I do see how 7% may be a little strong, hence the various other options other people(as well as myself) have put up for adoption. The idea is to think outside the box, which clearly you're not hearing me advocate.
IS that so? Let's see...
"What if Hope were active for the remainder of the trial instead of being on a timer? Not only would it make it a good counter to NOED, but it would proc people to think outside the box and steer away from the norm"
All I see is you asking for unlimited time on hope. No negatives, no balance, just op.
And let me be clear on one thing, if hope gets this buff, NOED will be played on every single game, to counter it. Because if they don't use it, they will lose the game the second the last gen pops.
Making this buff counter productive towards your goal.
So... "you don't agree with me, it means you're bad and waaaaaaaa..."?
Also, "you forced me to insult you, it's not because I wanted to" ... "waaaaaaaa..."
Very mature. Or as you put it "honest and accurate"😒
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Adrenaline is more powerful given the heal and allowing focus on gens, it they were to be combined they would take up 2 slots not just one.
Playing badly has nothing to do with it, good teams get wiped out by NOED sometimes because they don't want to leave someone behind. That doesn't make them bad, it means they mad a bad decision and/or took a gamble and lost because they got outplayed. This would still allow room for killer to outplay the survivors on skill and the premise that the survivors make a mistake. I admit, I used a poor choice in words stating the idea that the survivors would have to trip themselves up.
I called you closed-minded because you're clearly not open to the idea of a change of some sort. I put up the idea for a flat 4% plus !% per teammate in very close range, lowering it to 5%, or also praised someones idea for it deactivating upon injury. I was looking for input and you stated is would be game breaking(which it wouldn't) while using a derogatory abbreviation and left it at that. Just so you know, in order for it to be "broken" it would have to guarantee an escape, which it would't. There is a difference between too strong must nerf and broken.
I'm not sure how a player that has a clear understanding game functions and tactics as well as what is truly broken could be a high skilled player but maybe I'm wrong.
lastly, I didn't insult you. I stated that I meant no disrespect, it was my honest assessment. You're the one who lead with subtle profanity insisting you were in the right and slammed the door shut after.
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