Is SWF OP or is Solo UP?
Just wanted to quickly gather opinions. Should swf be nerfed or solos buffed is another key question. Let me know your thoughts iin the comments.
Personally I play mostly swf as survivor, so I may have some bias. I think solos are UP because I like many think dbd would work well as a team game. Perks and objectives should be balanced around coordination. Balancing around optimal survivors after eliminating solo swf gap seems like the best move to me.
Comments
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Honestly the core issue is the level of information or lack of. A lot of Solo players use meta perks, but don't take the fact that they are playing solo and its advisable to take a different build that also presents more information. Aftercare, Empathy, and Kindred for a Solo surv can really carry.
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Swf should be nerfed
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I think solo should be buffed to swf level then killers get buffed too. Thats the only way to achieve balance
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Solo needs to be brought to the level of SWF so that as the game continues to be tuned to the SWF vs. Killer dynamic, everyone on the survivor side is on level(ish) playing field.
The game has implemented over a year's worth of changes in an effort to level SWF and Killers. Nerfing SWF now would make zero sense.
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Both.
Good SWF groups just make a mockery of killers.
Solo pub groups get steamrolled by killers.
There's no real middle ground and it'll never change.
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I agree, it's a mix of both. SWF has a lot of good elements in it that make the game more enjoyable and even more tactile (to a degree this is good, too much is bad as well) but on the other hand that means a killer who is fared well against SWF are going to destroy solos who don't have the same tools and 9 free perks you get just by using SWF.
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Kindred honestly should be base kit. It's not really OP, and it's something a SWF group would know already. There should also be a base kit totem counter. This kind of information isn't something that's game breaking. Solo survivors need to know if a killer is camping, and how many totems have been done, to at least know what they need to do in those specific situations. BHVR needs to stop using perks as band aid fixes for the game and implement them in the base. They did it with bloodlust, so why did they stop after that? There are so many situations that a solo survivor pretty much needs in the game in order to prevent unsportsmanlike behavior from dumpstering them. If SWF has it already, and solos are missing out on that information, they shouldn't have to bring a perk to replace that information. It's lazy. You pretty much need Kindred, Decisive Strike, Unbreakable, and Borrowed Time JUST to deal with killer behavior as a solo survivor and it's ridiculous. I regret every time I take DS off for a non meta build. I actually PAUSE myself when I do thinking "Can I really afford to do this?".
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I'm probably gonna get hate for this, but I think mostly solo survivor is just UP. I'm not saying there's no advantage to SWF but I definitely feel like there's a lot of information given that people just choose not to pay attention to. Games have always been easier with comms, and DbD is no exception. Considering all this, I feel like solo needs to be buffed more than SWF needs to be nerfed. I really don't like the idea of punishing people just for grouping up. To me, it just seems like a more simple solution to do things like add a totem counter, or make Kindred base kit, or whatever (not that I advocate for any of these things specifically, just ideas like these.) Then neither solos nor SWFs have to feel too punished, and maybe killers could get just a very slight buff to counteract the overall increase in survivor strength from the solo buffs.
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That's reasonable, nerfing things tends to cause outrage. Releasing all of these buffs simultaneously would probably be well-received.
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People seems to forget that this game was originally meant for 4 solo survivors vs 1 killer, SWF came after and is good for the game in the sense that it brought people and there friends to play the game.
As for your question I would say nerf SWF but don't touch the core experience of DbD which is solo survivor, even after almost 400 I still enjoy Solo way more than SWF and if I do SWF it's with only 1 buddy and he's terrible.
4 man SWF sweat team ruins this game so much but please for the love of God don't think about bringing us to their level, the game would become so much easier and part of what I like is the challenge.
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Mixed answer as generally speaking 4 man SWF on comms is survivor sided, but Killer vs 4 solos is absolutely killer sided. That’s why the all the “delete SWF” posts are just silly, as it implies they actually believe a solo lobby to be a balanced game, which of course they would since they are winning. That’s a joke, and most people who aren’t biased realize that I think. Some level of SWF involvement in matches is actually needed for balance in today’s game.
The only answer would be to buff solo in every way possible that does NOT include built in comms or perks (which is a classic of the devs) like indicators of what everyone is doing and being able to press a button that says “don’t save me, killer is here”...for example. Then you balance killers around that. This is just really unlikely though. Before anyone says it, no, just going the built in comms route would be disastrous and kill the game. You can’t balance the game around that as so many survivors would want to mute it and be left with a far worse experience than current solo queue already can be.
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I think both is true. And i dont think buffing solos to the level of swf is even possible, because all the information you pass around is just too much without voice chat.
Also, i actually prefer solo play because i like the guessing game and not knowing for sure where the killer is. Kindred base kit would give a lot of information that for athmosperic reasons i would like not to have.
The only solution i see is 2 different lobbys for swf and solos, with a changed balance between them. But its not going to happen, because swf always cry they would be punished if the game was balanced out, and not soo much in their favor.
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I can kind of see both sides of the argument
I play killer religiously most of the time but whenever I have the chance I jump in on an swf party with my friends
Most of the time it is really a tossup how the matches go, even with swf, of course we share info but we are all 16-20 rank at most and some killers are just better than us, though we get face-campers quite a bit which sucks
I'm just trying to say swf is a bit of an unfair advantage coming from both sides, and it sucks when you can't even find a survivor for half the game and get only a 1 maybe 2k
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Solo should be buffed, innate bond or empathy something like that. Then you can nerf, buff or generally balance the game with a more evenly spread skill level. Instead of where it is now where swfs are at a much higher level then your average solo or even duo. Trios is imo where it become more influential. By the way I'm a killer main so that's my bias.
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Solo is really UP as of rn. Don't play alot of swf with coms but it still seems quite strong.
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A bit of both
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Solo needs some QoL buffs. But the problem is, everytime you buff solo survivors, you buff SWF, too. So for every solo buff, there needs to be a killer buff somehow.
Duo-Swfs are fine.
It's the 3 or 4 man groups that (if they are halfway decent) that will shift the balance into their favor.
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Playing solo is much harder. Me and my friends usually play together and one thing that is very different from playing as SWF or solo is trust. As solo, we don't know the other players or what they will do. Will they fix and help the team? Will they hide most of the time? Will they go for saves or wait near the hatch for everyone to die? My first match of the day, today, as solo, was me getting hooked in basement, killer left, everyone else went to the other side of the map, killer went there, everyone remained there, one was chased, two were hiding, no one came to help me and I died on the first hook.
I felt angry because they could have tried to help. It was against an Oni, that didn't even have his power activated, so one of the two that were not chased could have tried to save. But this happens sometimes as solo, but as SWF it doesn't. If I'm playing with friends, of course we do everything in our power to save each other. Also, a lot of SWF use voice communication (not me and my friends) so they can coordinate everything. I think the devs should make a way for the system to detect if someone is playing solo and give these survivors a buff, like built in kindred, for example.
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Quoted and approved ^..^ And i play 60% the "Dark Side". If you are vs pure Solo (not partial solo, vs 4 random 100%) it's 70% times an ez win.
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I think solo's should be buffed to SWF level. For example we could have:
Kindred as base kit
Voice chat in-game
Those are the only two I can think of right now cx having kindred as base kit would really help out solo's more.
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A full team of good solo survivors can be nearly as strong as SWF. Just nerf survivors across the board.
Only really good survivors should be in red ranks anyway.
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Theres a reason I only play in a swf team.
Today I've had 4 games as a solo player.
Game 1. Good team vs a bad wraith. 1 died because of noed.
Game 2. Every single player had urban so I killed myself on hook. They were all holding L2 even on the other side of the map.
Game 3. Baby Demogorgan who got 2 kills because two players were babies. Both had urban and one never left the basement of the school on badham. We only got out because he found a key and we both got the hatch.
Game 4. Billy with instasaw who also had sloppy and nurses lol I gave him an easy down but only 1 got out by the hatch.
Solo survivor is very unreliable since even though every survivor was a red rank they weren't all good. Good players create swf teams because that's the only way to guarantee good teammates.
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Solo ias the default game, so I'd say swf is stronger than solo, and comms are overpowered.
To negate the advantage of comms, we cxant just info into the UI or aura reading ontop the survivors. Comms do not magically give info to swf, one swf still needs to rind out stuff and relay it to the others. We shouldnt buff solo by stuffing more info into their face,but allow them to relay some info to the other survivors. A quick message or ping system might be suited for this.
I might be repeating myself, but giving solo( and thus swf too) more aura reading, spoonfed info or hud stuff will NOT close the solo-swf gap.
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I think it's a little of both, personally.
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Solo is great as it is. I have never played SWF because I have no gaming friends, but think it would be pretty fun but way to easy. But let SWF do their thing they will get tired of it when they are good enough to not have fun anymore.
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I definitely agree it's a mix of both.
The pure information you can get from playing SWF is extensive and unfair for the killer, e.g. "I found him, it's x killer, he's chasing me, he's going into x building, I think he's running x perk". Those are the insane advantages you can get on comms, which really can't be fixed. I only very rarely play SWF with my roommates (I am the only one who plays the game a lot; they're all between rank 15-20 so the games themselves aren't that bad). But I know going against 4 man red rank survivors in a SWF group is hell for the killer, and a relaxing walk in the park for the survivors.
Solo definitely needs a buff. You can't nerf SWF, all the suggestions I've heard will end up in the game losing so much of it's player-base. Whether it's Kindred, Empathy, Bond, or Aftercare being base kit, I don't know what would work best. But solo should be buffed and then the game can be balanced around that. Right now it's balanced around solo play which is why SWF is leagues above it.
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SWF should be nerfed because they're to over powered. Solo queue is fine.
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A bit of both I think. Not so much swf as headsets. I don't know how they could try to balance that out. Maybe give the killer more rewards for playing against a swf? Extra perks? Not a big change but "AFTER" a match is done I wouldn't mind having a little symbol that told me who was in a swf so I know if it was a 2 man or a 4 man. Can't have it before the match because killers would lobby dodge.
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Solo is slightly underpowered, SWF is slightly overpowered.
When i talk about SWF i mean 3 or 4 people in a group.
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SWF. Here is a few exampled. Gen / healing speed reduction, no same characters, only 1 perk over all 4 character per game, different equipment to be taken in the game, running / pallet drop / window vault speed reduction.
It's quite easy to nerf swf to balance the game out so the game isn't one sided
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In my opinion: SWF = cheat/noobmode. Solo is so much better and harder ( makes more fun cause you can play how are you want )
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Solo blows because you have no idea wah at your teammates will do. Just lost to legion with half a gen to go, meanwhile Claudette self cared in the corner twice and let me get one hooked to camp hatch... I still out scores her even with her 7k for hatch
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SWF could not be OP if solos were UP. Sure, communication to share information and coordinate for efficiency and to achieve the same goal gives an advantage but that wouldn't matter much if the core mechanics had survivors be very weak/UP.
4 decent solos who understand the game well enough can make the killer sweat a lot and have a good chance of winning. 4 buffoons teaming up but messing up left and right won't have an easy game vs a decent killer just because they are SWF.
People not playing the objective and making questionable decisions is usually why things go downhill fast whenever I play solo. That's not a balancing issue though. Time is on the survivors side at the start of the match and tools for survival are plentiful. People just need to learn how to utilize them well.
4 survivors who have "gotten gud" are strong, SWF just enables them to utilize their strength beyond what's possible in soloQ.
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A totem counter wouldn't buff swf. A chase indicator wouldn't either. A camping indicator and a hook coordination system wouldn't either. Do you disagree?
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Killers will always be adjusted with every change obviously.
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I think, no...I know you're incorrect. This hud info is all stuff swf already knows and can use. Giving it to solos doesn't affect swf because they already have it.
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SWF can be OP, but 90% of the time it isn't. Solo survivor is not underpowered. It's the players that cause it to be a disaster. Going into struggle on first hook with Kindred is nothing other than the teammates having awful game sense.
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Actually swf is not mechanically stronger than solo, it's just easier.
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Never in all my time on these forums have I seen a balance proposal this ludicrous. So if I want to play with my friends, I have to be disadvantaged through perks, chase, and action speed? Even if I'm not on comms? Is it really that difficult to understand that buffing solo players will allow for killers to be buffed in order to compete against SWF groups every match?
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Yes, mechanically it is the same as SoloQ hence why if Solo was underpowered, SWF wouldn't shift it drastically in the opposite direction. Easier for sure but the success of an SWF still hinges on survivors being decently strong at base.
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That's why I don't think swf is OP. It's just the current easiest way to expose survivors' true potential.
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Totem Counter: Should be put into Small Game.
Or just another idea: Once ALL totems are cleansed, a loud notification is played for everyone.
Chase indicator: 0 problems with that, even though it takes a bit of the thrill out of the game. If there is a stealth killer and I know someone is getting chased, I can stop caring about my surroundings. But I see that SWF can completely negate that fact, so sure why not.
Camping indicator: Kindred basekit and problem solved.
Hook coordination: I don't know, what you mean. How many times a survivor has been hooked?
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Swf can designate teammates to go save. Solos should have a similar system.
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Would be solved if Kindred was basekit.
But i just thought about something else, did you by any chance play Apex Legends? They have a great ping system for everything. You don't need to talk to your random mates, just ping the location you want to go or where the enemy is, stuff like that. It's simple and works fine. But how to balance it for DbD.. well that's not my job :D
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