http://dbd.game/killswitch
Prove Thyself must be nerfed
This perk is the reason that small efficiency nerf barely changed anything, only affecting solo players. Why? Because Prove Thyself was buffed in a way that allow survivors to ignore the nerf. Just like the last time the efficiency was lowered.
Now I've been seeing the perk more frequently, usually on people who are part of SWF groups. They only need one slot from one of them and it makes a huge difference for the whole group. That makes the gen speed even worse than it was before when against SWFs, simply because it was already harder to keep up with gen speeds when they used Prove Thyself, and now they are using it more often.
The excuse for not nerfing PT when Ruin was changed was that the perk isn't so commonly used. But there are two things to consider: 1. Even though that perk wasn't picked that much, it can still make a big difference when it is, even more than the old toolboxes. 2. Buffing this perk might eventually bring it to the meta, specially if it keeps getting buffed every time the gen repair efficiency gets nerfed.
Comments
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Yeah i critisized the PT buff too.
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I'm glad there's an extra perk in the meta
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No nerf needed, because its not an autstandigly good or even neccessary perk.
Some Killers dont understand for whatever reason that cooping on gens is not a good way to play survivor. If you find players grouping on generators, you can be happy since you actually get a free advantage.
They might pop a gen in your face, but all they did is to give up time on 3 other generators. This was even before the nerf, now it is worse to stick together on gens.
The most optimal play as survivor is to always separte, and do gens solo. Exceptions are rare.
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People don’t get it’s not a buff, it was increased to match the new slowdown percentage, that’s what the perk was designed for as well, that’s why it’s a teachable...
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Do you know how many seconds it saves the survivors?
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A good swf will do gens separately so using pt actually helps you
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Buffed? It only got adjusted to the nerf. The perk is not buffed in any way.
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I ran PT in 4 games last night, my swf team of 3 got gens down pretty dang quick. We had 3 gens done in 3 mins. The killer tries facecamping but because we had ds and bt and saved our teammate, he dc'd and messaged us saying how survivor was still OP lol. Well don't be trash and faceamp either. He decided to tunnel one good looper of our team. The changes didn't really change my games even as killer. Gens still get done pretty fast. But I also run perks to try and keep pressure of gens. And that killer was a rank 6. We were red ranks and one purple.
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It got buffed to nullify the nerf. PT is a farming perk for people that like to interact with the killer and it shouldnt become meta because of genrush.
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Think of it this way, if now they want to use Prove Thyself now they cant use one of DS, Borrowed, DH and Adrenaline. Shifting the meta is always welcome to me.
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So? You have to use a perkslot to nullify the nerf - a nerf that was not even that relevant. Like i said, stacking up on gens was never a good idea and its even worse now. You are wrong if you think you get genrushed because of multible people pumping the same gen.
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If we look at the difference between before and after when someone uses Prove Thyself, the repair time increases regardless of the number of survivors.
- before: 80 / 40.4 / 27.8 / 22
- after: 80 / 40.9 / 29.3 / 25
Where is the buff ?
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I used it for the challenge that you need to co-op a gen together. That can be a reason why you see a perk more often.
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Man I like all the people in the forum who knows barely anything about good gameplay.
I don't remember when generator inefficiency got released but it's almost there right after Dbds release.SO pretty much since 4 years. PT got changed In 2k18? 2 years ago and to years later? They made it so that the inefficiency gets reverted by running it.
Now they increased the inefficiency by 5% and so PT. So PT still works the same as before. And you say that it's too strong now?
So if you do gens together you safe 2 seconds more than before but you also use a whole perkslot only for the moment of working together on one single gen. Okay. So how about deleting the perk. Imagine: You hook the survivor after 60 seconds and you see 3 survivors on 3 different gens at the same time. or imagine 1 gen is done and all 3 are sitting at one gen. What do you prefer? Do you feel like the 3 survivors who all have the exact same position only working on 1 generator you can patrol if you reach them in time would be more efficient than 3 survivors on 3 different locations on the map doing 3 individual generators at the same time?
Not just that if multiple survivors are on the same gen you can control them better. You know the exact positions and you know that only this generator is worked on. You patrol the generator from time to time. This can result in different kinds of map/gen pressure. On the other hand you would reach 1 survivor maybe in time knowing that 2 other gens getting done and you don't know what the other 2 survivors are doing and where they will go. Also they may use different perks. if they run information perks they don't just play very gen efficient they also know exactly what's going on and where they should position themself instead of running PT.
So tell me what do you think. Are the efficient survivors those with PT on one single gen or the guys who split up while having map awarness knowing what they have to do and what they dont.
So. Even if PT were strong, what it isn't at all, having it gone wouldn't make the teams less efficient. You also have to keep in mind when ineffiency found its way into the game one gen took 60 seconds to complete I think. Now we are at 80 seconds. And toolboxes got nerfed.
In conclusion: Maybe you should reflect your game decisions and your average chase time you need to down survivors especially in the early game to improve yourself. If you run a survivor at a pallet that isn't unmindgameable and you're not able to catch him because he predicts you right maybe you should work on that. So that your oppponents dont have that much of an easy time winning chases against you. Or you do the old "go for the weakest" strategy. But running PT won't costs you your game at all. Not fundamental more than any other perks. And just as a fun fact: perks which safes the greatest amount of time when it comes to important decisions in dbd aren't the ones with numbers towards safing time.
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Its the same equation as before.
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All I hear is "nerf this, nerf that" ... what's next?
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1. "Nerf Prove Thyself"
2. Nerf a B-Tier survivor perk
3. Nerf Dwight to make him only have one good perk which is only useful in solo queue.
4. Nerf my Dwight loadout...Ah hell na'
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Here's some stats fo yo ass.
Prove Thyself's bonus has always been multiplicative, not additive, and it applies to the post-penalty repair speed. This means that even before the nerf, it only increased your slowed repair speed by 10%, not your base repair speed. 10% of your base repair speed would be 0.1 charges a second, but 10% of your repair speed with a -10% penalty is 0.09 charges a second. Even though you didn't have a red progress bar, your speed when co-oping a gen with Prove Thyself was still only 0.99 charges per second, not 1 charge per second.
Because of this, reducing the co-op gen speed will reduce the bonus given from Prove Thyself. You repair at 0.85 c/s when working with someone else, and 15% of that is 0.1275 charges. In order to up your repair speed to the base level, it would need to increase it by 0.15 charges. Prove Thyself is missing out on 0.0225 charges needed to fully undo the co-op speed reduction. This means that both of you are repairing at a rate of 0.9775 c/s, down from the pre-patch speed of 0.99 c/s. Together, your combined speed has dropped from 1.98 c/s to 1.955 c/s—slow enough for the progress bar to turn red.
TL;DR—Prove Thyself was nerfed, actually.
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This ^
Prove Thyself was always intended to counteract the repair speed efficiency debuff when working with other survivors, that's literally the purpose of the perk. Changing the values of the perk to compensate when the values for efficiency that it is based off change just makes plain sense.
It's not actually any better than it was before, it is simply just more valued now. As well, I don't believe any of this hogwash that it's only SWF using the perk, when I play survivor 95% of the time I'm playing solo, and prove thyself is regularly in my solo builds if I'm looking for a more cooperative / altruistic / gen jockey playstyle. It's just a flat-out good perk and everybody is going to use it because it's a good perk.
That's like telling killers to not use BBQ & Chili because it's too good of a perk. Neither BBQ nor Prove Thyself are OP or unbalanced, they are just flat out good perks for either side to use.
If you're looking for a survivor perk to nerf, look no farther than Decisive Strike. That sh*t is bullsh*t and needs to be changed, pronto.
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PT's bonus was buffed. Pre-patch is .18 more charges. Post is .255 more charges.
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That post literally has the math explaining why you're wrong but sure.
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How am I wrong? Pre-patch base speed is 1.8 and Post is 1.7. Doing the math PT increases from base more in Post :/
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You obviously didn't read my post. Even with the number increase, post-patch Prove Thyself still does less of a job at undoing the co-op repair speed penalty than pre-patch. You can literally see this evidence by just going in the game and seeing that when you repair a gen with someone else using Prove Thyself, the progress bar is red. It wasn't before.
It doesn't matter that the bonus is larger; the efficiency penalty is still less countered than it was before. If it was actually buffed, then the amount of time taken to co-op a gen with Prove Thyself would remain the same despite the increased co-op speed penalties. But it's NOT. It's SLOWER than it was before. It TAKES LONGER to co-op a gen with PT equipped than it did before.
Despite the stat increase, PT has less of an effect than it did before. That's how it was nerfed. Old PT was faster than new PT. Simple as.
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Dude stop obsessing over your post just do the math.
1.98 - 1.8 = .18 charge bonus
1.955 - 1.7 = .255 charge bonus
PT gives .075 more charges than it used to. It doesn't matter that co-op is less viable overall because PT by itself was strictly improved.
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Except it wasn't, because its purpose of undoing the co-op repair speed penalty is now less effective, and its viability as a Perk for finishing generators quickly has been slightly reduced. In terms of actually helping Survivors do gens faster, it has been nerfed. The number changes didn't save it from being less useful as a whole.
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It undos the penalty by .075 more than it used to. It gives .075 more speed than it used to. Why are you saying it is less effective now?
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Because the important thing isn't how much it undoes the penalty. The important thing is how long it takes to do a gen, as that's what matters in a match. And new Prove Thyself takes more time to do a gen than old Prove Thyself. It is now LESS effective at doing the objective more quickly. Therefore, it was nerfed.
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It takes longer to do a gen now yes, but PT boosts that speed more than it used to.
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But it still takes longer to do a gen, therefore it's less useful, therefore it was nerfed.
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If struggle phase lasted only 30 seconds with the new patch but Camaraderie was buffed to pause for 60 seconds would that mean overall Camaraderie got nerfed? Just curious...
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Only reason I use PT is to get at least one category maxed out. And the extra BP on altruism is also nice if you heal someone in coop.
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With the current 60 second timer + Cama's 34 seconds, the struggle phase takes 94 seconds. With this change, it would last 90 seconds. Therefore, the combined length of time the Survivor has to be saved when using Camaraderie is shorter. So yes, overall it would be nerfed.
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I hardly ever see it. I'd rather see prove thyself in a team than seeing a bunch of other survivor perks.
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It appears that your mindset is flawed. Idk how to change your mind atm so I'll just leave you be.
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Prove thyself still isn't a good perk not to mention splitting up on gens is worse than people stacking on gens because it means more gens are done
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How is it flawed? The Perk now does less than it did before despite its increased numbers. New Camaraderie now offers less overall time to save a struggling Survivor than old Camaraderie, therefore it's less useful, therefore it was nerfed. Similarly, Prove Thyself now takes longer to do gens, therefore it's less useful, therefore it was nerfed. It's simple, really.
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The perk doesn't do less, it does more. That is a fact.
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Stacking up on gens is not the problem, i agree, but SWF will still use this perk to escape a three gen situation, even if the killer playes it well. It's just problematic to have a perk nullifying the penalty of two people sitting on gens in my opinion.
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No, it does less. PT's repair speed is now slower, therefore it does less.
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PT's repair bonus is now higher, therefore it does more.
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The repair bonus is not as effective in repairing gens as it used to be, therefore it does less.
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It's funny the ammount of people I see trying to invalidate my comment just by bringing up something I never denied!
Y'all keep repeating:
Looks like you didn't pay atention to my post, read again what I wrote:
"This perk is the reason that small efficiency nerf barely changed anything, only affecting solo players. Why? Because Prove Thyself was buffed in a way that allow survivors to ignore the nerf. Just like the last time the efficiency was lowered". Atention to the first sentence. That's pretty much the point of this thread.
"That makes the gen speed even worse than it was before when against SWFs, simply because it was already harder to keep up with gen speeds when they used Prove Thyself, and now they are using it more often". I said it's being used MORE OFTEN, not that it makes the game faster than it was before.
"Buffing this perk might eventually bring it to the meta, specially if it keeps getting buffed every time the gen repair efficiency gets nerfed". I acknowledged the reason for the buff twice, but the perk is still more worth using than it was before, so, still a buff.
What I meant from the start is that, thanks to the value increase to PT, the gen efficiency nerf, wich was already small, only affected solo survivors. SWFs can just use PT and pretend the nerf was never there.
"But it takes a perk slot"
A perk slot that might be really important for a solo player, not that much for a 4-man SWF. They won't be hurt because a single survivor didn't take BT. He just have to leave the unsafe unhooking for the others and problem solved. Also, is not that uncommon to see SWFs with Head On anyway, and that's far from a good perk.
Oh, and a note:
I never said people shouldn't use PT or that only SWFs use them, but it benefits SWFs far more. You don't really need a meta perk like BT if you know other 3 people on the team have it, and you can talk to your friends to focus the right gen at the right time.
Now, for the people saying that being on the same gen is bad:
It is usually better to be on different gens and make it harder for the killer to pressure you, while also having no efficiency drawback. But that doesn't mean two or more survivors on a gen is innefective. Far from it. With PT, and more than two people, it's possible to finish a gen before the killer can even walk to it. Not all killers can move across the map as fast as Hillbilly, Oni, Freddy or Nurse, or protect gens the same way Doctor and Hag do. Even if you, as the killer, finish a chase really fast, PT may give survivors time to rush a gen to the end before you return to it, also making you unable to delay it with PGTY or Surge.
That's why some survivors use Shroud of Union, sometimes combined with Vigo's Shroud. If it's a Clown, Leatherface, Deathslinger or Myers, they will pretty much have a 4 gen objective, because the first can be done before the killer even arrives.
Not to mention that, frequently, that one gen you lose because of coop action really matters! The gen placement is important. You can lose an opportunity of a potential 3-gen for the late game if they do a single gen that would be part of it. Then they will be able to spread out more easily on the late game. I don't have a problem on leting a survivor take 80 seconds to fix a gen on the oposite side of the map as long as I give priority to the ones that are close to one another. But what if I live that for a single chase and they are all of sudden almost finishing one of them?
Also, picture this, because it's a thing that happens:
The killer hooks a survivor, he comes back to check on the last few gens, wich were 0% before. He notices one it is almost done! But he manages to stop the survivors, injure them and scare them away. But now, he has no PGTY nor Ruin and it's over 90% the regression is freaking slow. He can't focus too much on this one because survivors can either rush another one or just spread between this one and the other one that is further away. Had the gen not be done so fast, he would be able to guard it along with other gens, but now it's impossible.
Don't act as if it's just "separated survivors good, survivors together bad", there are situations for everything and the need to adapt.
I also noticed some uneducated comments that were insulting and judging my knowledge of the game as if they saw me playing, but I'm going to just ignore that.
What I want to say is: my point still stands, and it has nothing to do with a lot of people here are talking about.
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Except your point doesn't stand, at all. It's not unbalanced and it doesn't need a nerf that's literally the short of it. Notice how almost nobody here agrees with you, and most all the voted up posts are from people who are basically telling you you're wrong.
And before you hop on the "It's All the Survivor Mains and their Survivor Bias Reeeeeee" train, I'm going to tell you right now I've made it to rank 1 with both survivor and killer. So put a cork in that line of thinking before you even begin to type it.
It's not like the perk is being used all that frequently either, saying it's being used more often is a very blanket statement I can say that shark attacks have increased in the past 10 years but does that mean they actually happen all that often? No. Now I'm not saying that it's being used infrequently that would just be misleading, however, I am saying it's no decisive strike where you're seeing it every flippin game.
Also the idea that it's less useful on solo players is again debatable, I can say this pretty confidently knowing that I can slap on Bond, Aftercare, or even Empathy and I can get more reliable real time information than playing with friends making obscure call outs.
Not to mention, if you nerf prove thyself all you end up doing is reducing the pool of viable perks for survivors to chose from and continue encouraging a meta of DS, DH, SC, etc.
Finally just on a general note about balance, I'm far more in favor finding other solutions to balance beyond just nerfing perks or powers. Nerfing is not a fun, nor is it a creative suggestion because you're just changing numbers.
A similar example, when Freddy was nerfed into the ground it was possible that the devs could have just changed number values to make that version of him more viable, they could have decreased the transition period between being awake and sleep and they could have decreased a whole bunch of values even more than they already were like for gen speed or maybe even vaulting speeds of survivors. Would you rather have them do that where they just change some number values or the rework that we eventually got that made his playstyle more interactive, more fun, unique, etc. I mean they could have done that, but they didn't, and instead they took the time to overhaul and rework his entire kit on a scale we had never seen before in the entire history of DBD or since.
Gen rushing is not going to be solved by nerfing Prove Thyself. Honestly even if PT was nerfed, it probably would do hardly any good on that front just ever so invisibly more bearable. Nerfing isn't the best route to take here.
Unless we're talking about Decisive Strike. Because that sh*t is bullsh*t and needs to be changed, pronto.
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