If a Killer/Perk is only as good as the player using it, that's good game design
Because it rewards the player for actually understanding the mechanics of the game and rewards their skill for being able to end chases or extend chases for longer, even without the need of help from meta perks.
I'm mainly making this thread because I keep seeing this argument pop up time and time again:
"If the player is a decent Killer, they will be able to steamroll with [Killer of the Week]."
"If the player has Decisive Strike & Dead Hard, they will be able to extend chases without effort."
Yes, it can be annoying to face that certain Killer, or it can be annoying to have your kill robbed from you because the Survivor used a certain perk. But all of these still required said survivor and said killer to be good enough at the game to use it effectively.
Let me start with Deathslinger. Another killer that has been popping up for whatever reason.
His power is limited to only how good the player is. If they suck at Quick Scoping, or if they suck at aiming, then Deathslinger will be massively weakened because by then he is just a 110% killer without any power because the player themselves cannot fully utilize that power to it's full potential.
So why is it a problem when the killer is good at aiming and shooting to hit his target every single time? The game should reward someone who is good at shooting and reeling in Survivors. It should reward that kind of skill.
Same goes with a killer like Freddy. You're relying on Survivors staying asleep, you're also relying on your own chase skills. If you're unable to mindgame or accurately give chase, then the Survivors will just get away from you because without your powers you're just an M1 killer that can easily be looped like any other killer.
But it's not just the killer side, there's also perks like Decisive Strike, Head On, Dead Hard. Perks like these can be annoying to go up against, but they serve a purpose of letting survivors play riskier than they normally would. Hell, if you use DS too early or use DH too late, you'll find yourself to be in an exposed situation where you will most surely end up on the hook over and over again.
You might argue that using DS verbatim has no skill involved. I agree, just using it has no skill. You effectively have 60 seconds of invulnerability. But choosing when to use that 60 seconds of invulnerability is kinda what I mean. If a survivor wasted it in the early game, they won't have it in use in the endgame when it really matters. So it is a powerful perk, but if you use it too early you're effectively just playing with 3 perks the rest of the match.
Same with DH, timing it with the killer's swings is impressive. Especially with Dedicated Servers running making you exhausted in the ground half the time. You might even use it to gain distance to get to a pallet or window you otherwise wouldn't have gotten. And even then, you still need to rely on your chase skills as a survivor so you can get away from the killer. It's not always a free escape. If you know what you are doing, the perk will definitely help out a lot.
So, why am I making this thread? Because to be frankly honest, I'm kinda just sick of people dismissing other players and how they play purely because they choose to play THAT killer, or use THOSE perks. It's something I found myself doing even in my game sessions today. I got annoyed but after relaxing a bit, I just realized they're using what the game gave them and used it with the most optimal use they can think of during the match.
I certainly wasn't playing optimally, I mean hell, I was playing Clown and Legion the whole of today because I didn't want to play any top tier Killer for a while. I want to challenge myself with them. So yeah it makes sense that I wouldn't be getting as easy of a time when playing killers like these.
I just want, at least whoever reads this, to understand that you can use whoever or whatever you want to play the game. As long as you're doing so to do your objective, to kill or to survive, it should be fine. Just don't act actually toxic over it. It's just a game after all. Sure some of us may spend thousands of hours in this game, but it is still just something for our entertainment.
Just play whatever makes you have fun, as long as it's not at the expense of the other players in the game.
People who judge you for who you play as, whether it's an "overpowered" killer, or using a perk that is considered boring or annoying to face. They tend to not be good players themselves, so they have to project onto you for daring to play or use whatever you want that the game gives you.
Who cares if you lose? Even in a competitive sport, it's still just a game. You can give it your all, but if you lost, oh well, you tried your best, and they're simply the better player.
I can already smell the kind of replies this thread will get, but I just hope you guys can understand where I'm coming from.
Comments
-
I completely agree with your points @DelsKibara . If things in the game require skill and practice to pull off it's only natural to expect to be rewarded for it - I actually feel that the game is pretty good at doing that.
I do think you're missing one part of the story though. If you did cover it, i'm sorry - I have the attention span of a goldfish. The reason some people don't like specific killers/perks etc etc isn't because you can't counter or outplay them, but it's because they force a playstyle that those people don't personally enjoy. Let's take Deathslinger for example:
In terms of overall potential to win I think he strikes the perfect balance between strengths and weaknesses. If you've put in enough practice you can go for incredible shots that feel extremely satisfying to land and could have a huge impact on the game. At the same time there are plenty of counters from the survivor side - split up and do gens on your own, play more immersed and so on. Both parties have a decent chance of winning the game. The issue is that as you've mentioned, people play this game to have fun and different people find different things fun. A survivor who loves running loops around pallets will need to change their behaviour during a chase (and focus more on mindgames around LOS blockers) if they want to last more than 10-15 seconds against Deathslinger. Even if they're able to pull it off and win that doesn't necessarily guarantee that they had fun, because they didn't get to do what they enjoy in playing dbd - i.e. running around pallets.
With that said - I do understand where some people come from when they complain about certain things. It's not always that you can't outplay something, but rather that you're just bored playing against it. That's why people complain about clown - he's definitely not strong, but his seizure inducing bottles are extremely obnoxious. However, this is a massive game with so many different elements to it that you can't realistically expect to enjoy every single match you play, so I don't think these things should be changed based on that feedback - for every player that hates playing against deathslinger there are 10 blendettes that revel in the idea of playing hide and seek and doing generators for 10 minutes.
I've made this a lot longer than intended. Just wanted to say that to understand some of the complaints you need to consider the fact that even if they can easily win against something, people will still complain about it if it annoys them. Because you can't really build a strong case to change something just based on the fact that it annoys you, said people will try to find other reasons to justify wanting to get rid of it - e.g. "it is op", "it is uncounterable", "it is oppresive" and so on
1 -
Deathslinger is exactly that type of killer as you said. Some people get annoyed by his ability to quick scope you and you have 0% chance of humanly reacting to it. Atleast from what I've heard. 1 more thing people hate about him,is his zoning ability. He can zone you by not even using his power,and just holding W. In ur head,you'd think he'd shoot right? But he can hold his shot and just m1 you while you lose distance trying to juke him. I see that as a part of reading ur opponent personally,but most people disagree with it. I agree with the whole post,just wanted to explain more why people hate him from my PoV :F
2 -
Great post!
My biggest problem is that some things in this game are lowrisk and high reward. That's the stuff, that needs to be fixed.
And what I think is, that we don't only have the survivor and killer side, but there is also a "Casual vs competitive" mentality. If casuals play with and against competitive players, it will create another "Us vs them" mentality.
It's fine to use the tools which are given to you, just don't be a toxic dipshit and additionally don't expect that the other side will not fight back.
And many stuff what is considered OP is just OP, because people refuse to adapt. A while ago someone told me that nurse is a skillless killer. This just baffles me, how some people are losing their #########, because they have to step out of their comfort zone and play different.
If I have bad rounds, I try to analyze it, while getting my focus back and ask myself, what could I have done better? Where did I make a boo boo which cost me the game? Would I have done the same thing If I would be on the other side? (The answer is most of the time yes)
1 -
I agree, just because there is one or two aspect about the game you personally dislike, doesn't mean it needs to be changed.
For example, I honestly dislike going against Hag and Trapper. I don't like to be paranoid at where I walk, I don't like to be jumpscared. But I don't make complaints against them just because they have to force me to change my playstyle. Their power works fairly well for what it is, and a player who is good at playing them definitely deserves the kills they gained from that game.
0 -
Hooo Amen baybe! I see so many dumb posts on this forum complaining about killer powers because... they have powers? Like yeah, the killers are meant to be unique and feel good to the person playing them, but because a survivor doesnt like playing against them they absolutely riot about it. There was that one post saying killers shouldnt have teleports like the nurse because he didnt know how to dodge her blinks, despite her having no movement speed which absolutely baffled me LMAO!
Id like to think its the newer players who havent got the knowledge yet of the game that do these things, but it is tiring to see the forums spammed with basic complaints because they dont know how to play yet, the disucssions need more variety!
Good post OP, I like u and send u huggies uwu
1 -
"Casual vs Competitive" is definitely why we get so many fights between some killers and some survivors. There's a disparity in the goals and gameplay intent - some people just want to run around dark maps gesturing and teabagging, others want to improve and play well - and it leads to casual survivors throwing their rulebook at killers who are trying to play well.
You see it in every game, it's just that in most games the two player types end up separated by things like in-game rank or social circle. Not so in DbD.
2 -
Yeah some of the "best" related post i have seen towards taking issue with a killer power, has to be ghostface. Hey lets fix the bugs related to revealing him. No that would be the smart thing to do. No no no. Lets make it easier to reveal him, by not letting the reveal bar reset. When it takes less than 2 seconds to fully reveal him and puts his power on cool down for 30 seconds base kit, less if they have recovery add ons.
That or someone who believed it was unfair ghostface got a warning someone was trying to reveal him or for 2 seconds, he happens to know where a single person is. Due to the survivor playing correctly. So their idea was to nerf ghostface into the ground, anytime a survivor reveal ghostface, all four survivors would know where he is. So it's unfair ghostface gets to know where a single survivor is, yet three survivors who didn't do anything to reveal him, it's fine to reward them for doing nothing and somehow that is a fair trade for letting ghostface keep the warning he is being revealed and knows where someone is for 2 seconds. When not a single other sneaky killer is punish this heavily for failing to be sneaky. It like the logic made no sense. Like if it was unfair to punish a survivor for playing correctly, how is it fair to reward three survivors for doing nothing? Like if the idea was all about being fair, this idea would be even more unfair than how ghostface currently works. It was just simply a bad idea, that i don't think the person who came up with it, apply their own standards to this idea.
Which heck, not long ago, had a game vs someone using noed. Their build at the end, look like a random one that they just slap together, due to not having alot of perks yet. Since i think only one or two was tier three, the rest were tier two or one. Yeah i was playing survivor and got dead due to noed at the end. I think i was already on death hook or second hook, one or two people were already dead by the time we reach end game. Yet the post game chat, i just said gg. The killer said gg back. Everyone was nice and friendly. Now going by certain individuals, i should of acted like it was the end of the world. When no not really. It's just one match and there is always the next. That and the team i was with. Had a very rough start. We pull it together later on however. So it was still a fun match. I mean heck, everyone got a fair chance to play the video game with how long that match when on. That and a fair number of blood points. So basically it was a gg.
1 -
It's fine to dislike going against something, but if something is unbalanced, it's unbalanced, pure and simple.
Dead Hard is unbalanced. Moris are unbalanced. UnbreakaDS is unbalanced. Nurse is unbalanced. Gen times are unbalanced. There's a lot of unbalanced things in this game, and to pretend it's balanced because you need to know how to use them effectively is silly. Skillfully OP is still OP. Situationally OP is still OP. OP is OP, no ifs, ands or butts.
Also, using Freddy to argue your case is a bad example because his power does everything for him and you don't have to PLAY well as Freddy to DO well as Freddy. Playing Freddy is almost certainly a way of saying "I want to win but don't want to put in the effort of actually being better at the video game than my opponent."
0 -
Can you play around everything you just mentioned? Because if you can then it's not unbalanced.
Dead Hard can be baited, and it's mostly used once every chase and only if they're injured.
Moris are an exception, yes they can end the game quickly and does need some changing, but the moris themselves requires the killer to sacrifice an offering. Meaning they aren't going to be in every single one of your games. Plus, you still need to actually be able to down survivors to use them. So they're not an instant win.
Unbreakable+DS can be countered by.... Picking them up at the early game. Which you should do, especially with a full team of DS users. Because that means they cannot use it later in the midgame or endgame when it's much more crucial.
Nurse is unbalanced how exactly? I thought after her rework she became "weak" according to the community. I say she requires a lot more time and skill involved in playing, because her power is potentially still the best in the entire game.
Gen Times are only unbalanced if you don't excrete enough map pressure. And map pressure includes things such as injuring multiple survivors at once, constantly keeping generators in check, using your power to keep survivors away from generators, using several perks to keep tabs on gens, etc etc. Yes I get that gen times can be annoying and it can be a hinderence but the amount of games I had where all 5 gens are completed as Killer in RANK 1 are far less than the games where I finished off the survivors before every generator is completed.
(Clown game btw)
You can argue the synergy of Ruin and Surveillance is overpowered because it gives the Killer a bunch of information on where the survivors at when they are on generators. But you can counter that, you can play around that. Same way you play around every other killer, every other perk, every other loop/mindgame in the game.
Literally the only thing Freddy has that does his power for him is the passive sleeping mechanic. Which, by the way, can be countered, like everything else you listed, by waking up. Do you honestly expect a Freddy to care about your location if he is obviously in a chase if you miss a skillcheck? And hell, if most Freddy players use BBQ, which I'm sure most do because it is a good perk for BP and it helps with his teleportation, why don't you just fail the skillcheck and wake up when you see a Survivor went down? Or better yet, go hide in a locker so he doesn't know where you are on the map. Because he needs that info to be effective. If he has Discordance, work on separate generators. Surveillance? Keep him busy in a chase. Snares? Pallets? WAKE UP!
Freddy still requires you to be a GOOD killer to have good mileage on him. And I'm not budging from that stance, because most people don't know how to play against him. And I will happily play against him whenever he appears.
And I'd rather we do not derail this thread into a Freddy post because I have a feeling that's where this is going. So I'm ending this discussion here.
1 -
This entire essay is basically just a drawn-out "git gud", without actually demonstrating you know what you're talking about, so I don't really feel the desire to argue. Have fun thinking you're way better at the game than you actually are.
0 -
You too <3
Because I know I can back it up, I doubt you can.
2 -
I could, but judging from your logic, you wouldn't be capable of listening, so there's no point.
0 -
I think this game is balancewise in a good state. It could be better of course but there are bigger problems. Like matchmaking, or bugs so Many bugs.
1
