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Another goof with Deathslinger buff suggestions
This is all based on my knowledge of the Deathslingers current low tier placement and what I think might help him maybe be closer to a mid tier. I could be wrong and totally off but here goes.
First, I don't think survivors should be totally safe from the spear when it misses(the chain, sure). I think if a retracting spear hits a healthy survivor, they suffer from hindered for 5 seconds since a big spear just snagged you at high speeds going back to the Deathslinger. And if the survivor is injured they are are inflicted with hemorrhage since said high speed moving spear snagged on a already bleeding survivor. Not super big game changers, but thematically fitting.
Now the first big change, being able to reload while you have a survivor speared. Obviously can't reel in at the same time, so the survivor has more time to break the chain, but gives more value to those add-ons that increase the chain strength. (I have two trains of thought for when hitting a speared survivor with a loaded gun, will get to that.)
Now shooting again with a speared survivor injures or downs said survivor since said spear has now completely gone through you. A healthy survivor injured this way is freed and able to run away, albeit injured now. A likely never gonna happen secondary effect of this is that if the chain has enough reach to hit a survivor behind the speared survivor, they are now speared and the cycle goes on. This would solve the major issue of spearing injured survivors across dropped pallets but not being able to down them.
I know there would be some funny looking images if the survivors isn't right in front of the Deathslinger and the physics of the bullets being able to push the chain without the spear in the barrel is wonky but look where this is all taking place. If there is a demon that can lay down teleporters and travel through them, I think we can give Deathslinger this bit of suspension of disbelief.
Now for hitting a reeled in survivor with a loaded gun. 2 ideas
Given he has to go through his animation having hit a survivor, comparing that to how long Huntress is able to ready another hachet, I think it be fair for him to shoot as soon as its done. Yeah it makes having 8 stacks of save the best for last really strong on him, but he has to work up to that. And the huntress has cool down reducers between hachets, and one that reduces the wind up time.
If you feel that is too strong, then I'd suggest that the gun is fired off when the Deathslinger attacks with a survivor speared. If the attack hits said survivor ( or the survivor body blocking the hit), The survivors senses are shocked from a gun being fired off in their face. I'd say said survivor would suffer from Blindness and Obliviousness for 30 seconds, or more. If that seems long to you, try having a gun go off right in front of your face, your eyes and ears will be in agony for a lot longer then 30 seconds. I'd also say the player should suffer from an effect like when intoxicated from the clowns bottles, blurry, smokey screen but grey colored instead of purple.
This is in-chase stuff and doesn't solve the problem of zero map pressure. Maybe this next bit would be more appropriate as an add-on, but no higher then green.
Maybe when the Deathslinger fires off his gun, survivors within a certain give off a scream like Infectious fright and stops them if they are in the middle of an action, kind of like the doctors ability. Think back to realworld scenario, most people who aren't around guns alot have a little jumpscare/sudden death breath, what ever you want to call it when close to a gun being fired off, even if they know about it. Would not be hard to imagine the entity empowering the Deathslingers gun to get a heightened reaction from the survivors if they are within a certain range of his gun going off.
Also why is there no Leatherface head cosmetic based on when he put a bunch of makeup on his mask in the first movie?
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Is he really weak? I don't know if he really needs any buffs. There's certainly plenty of killers in a lot worse shape. I personally perform really well with Deathslinger. He's also one of the killer's that I lose to frequently. So I'm not sure if he's really that weak. Think he's certainly above average at least.
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I'm sorta basing this all off truetalents judgment of the character. He literally plays the game for a living so I would trust him to know the capabilities of the character.
Not that I'm saying your experiences are false, but the variables you could be bringing to the table might be countless, whereas truetalents are consistently based around high lvl play
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Deathslinger is a really good killer already - if you can hit your shots.
i dont think he needs any buffs.
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Personally find Tru Talent to be a very bad killer player. It's fine to like who you like. But I think he's certainly one of the worst killer streamers out there.
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Except the time it takes to hit 2 shots, reel, hit, and reload is league's slower then Huntress. And she has much further range then him with the only downside being having to reload at lockers. But if you hit your shots with her, then it's not a concern
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Can you point me to a streamer who maintains red rank killer who says Deathslinger is great?
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I mean when he was first released Sexy argued that Deathslinger was OP and Tru said he wasn't that good. But I don't watch a ton of DBD streams these days. So not sure what the overall thought on him is. But he's at least B tier for sure.
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considering her massive windup time, her projectile speed and therefore the survivors ability to react to her shots and dodge them, id argue both are around the same strength level.
yeah, she has a longer range than he has - therefore he can sneak up to get surprise shots and is able to cut loops a lot more effective than she ever could.
i am playing the killer on a daily basis at rank 1 (no add ons, so we're talking base power here) and im doing just fine. this killer has a rather high skill cap and buffing him will probaply end up making him a bit too good.
he is fine the way he is.
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Killers are at their best at release cause they are new and how to play against them needs to be figured out.
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Dunno. Deathslinger with Monitor & Abuse and Save the best for last is strong as hell. Being able to reload while you reel someone in is just ridiculous. Wouldn't even be able to get out of his guns range by time stun ended and you'd just shoot them again.
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she can also down survivors across dropped pallets.
"yeah, she has a longer range than he has - therefore he can sneak up to get surprise shots and is able to cut loops a lot more effective than she ever could."
can you elaborate on that more? I don't get how having longer range leads to deathslinger getting surprise shots and such.
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Save the best has to be built up. And my suggestion while reload with a speared survivor, not while reeling. And without a full stack of Save the best, I don't think its any faster then double hachets from Huntress
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he can spear them and then down them before they can break free from the chain on most pallets.
or you just break the pallet and reel them in before they reach the next.
he certainly has options to deny looping.
now to elaborate on my previous sentence:
"she [the Huntress] has a longer range than he [the Deathslinger] has - therefore [to make up for that] he [the Deathslinger] can sneak up [to them - the survivors - due to his small Terror Radius] to get surprise shots [which Huntress can not do, due to her massive Lullaby Radius, therefore the Survivors being alerted of her presence] and [...]"
and then the looping part which should be self explanatory - which i also elaborated a bit more above.
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gotcha, thank you.
I dunno about being able to hit them on MOST pallets once they've been dropped. Yes for unsafe pallets, but what is the ratio of safer pallet loops to unsafe? Thats not something I'd think anyone has counted or can count.
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Huntress beats deathslinger in pretty much every statistic except stealth and even that is a minor thing..as for slinger, idk what theyll end up doing for him..we will see how he settles
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Deathslinger isn't weak in 1v1s at all, he is actually top tier in the right hands. He can nullify most loops and most windows. Most of your suggestions would make him even better at 1v1s which is unnecessary in my opinion. His problem is his lack of map pressure, he loses less time from actual chases and more time patrolling/finding survivors, which can be overcompensated by perks. I believe all killers should have upsides and downsides so Deathslinger is currently balanced enough. On the other hand, he isn't very fun to face personally because of the very minimal counter play against him in chases. If anything, I would prefer some tweaks to him instead of buffs or nerfs.
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I don't agree on that he loses less time in chases, compared to Huntress he is slower to down someone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgSCNmficmU
But i do agree that his bigger problem is the lack of map pressure. What did you think of my one suggestion to that in my initial post?
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I don't think Deathslinger is in a position where he needs these buffs, they seem a bit too much. If you make him able to just down survivors over pallets then survivors have no recourse against him.
Counterplaying him involves getting into positions where he has to take preemptive shots and dodging preemptively, this requires pallets to be a useful defense.
Just think about the times where you're healthy, you drop a pallet and the Deathslinger just waits there for you to drop it, shoots you in the face with little effort cuz you're stuck in an animation and takes the stun to get the injure. I know I do that all the time because the most valuable thing for me is getting all survivors injured ASAP. Now imagine if he could just down you over the pallet like that. It would be very oppressive because of his fast ADS.
Huntress can down you over pallets, but she needs to make the right read and preemptively wind up the hatchet because she doesn't have the time to wind up on reaction like Deathslinger.
I think Deathslinger's problems are mostly in how slowly he does everything. He doesn't need a 1.5 second missed shot cooldown + 2.75 second reload where he moves at almost half the speed of a survivor...
The green reload and cooldown addons are actually a pretty fair and I honestly think they should probably be base. Addon reload speed is 2.25 seconds instead of 2.75 and missed shot cooldown addon is about 1 second instead of 1.5. So instead of giving survivors almost 5 seconds of moving almost twice as fast as the killer, you're giving them 3.25 seconds. It would be less discouraging for Deathslinger to use his power (im sure you've all seen the Deathslinger players who are just too scared to use their power because of how punishing and finicky it is so they barely ever shoot). His counterplay will remain the same and survivors will still make distance if he misses shots. I also think it'll make the killer feel better and more responsive to play.
Oh and hitting through windows should be fixed. Cuz I've never seen something so inconsistent in my life playing this game. Most of the time you get the hit but it's waaaay more finicky than it should be and when you don't get the hit it hurts your momentum quite a bit. Like if you reel the survivor in all the way and you can't real anymore it should be a guaranteed hit, period. Cuz at that point there's nothing more you can do to help you get the hit.
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I play perkless/addonless deathslinger. Been grinding quite a lot of hrs on him,and lemme tell you his quickscope is actually quite ######### strong.
The survivor just has to completely predict when ur gonna take ur shot and can't react to it.
You don't even have to shoot,your presence makes survivors try to dodge and then they lose distance thus you can m1/shoot them easier.
You can easily bait DH,and you can also get people at loops quite easily unless they keep predicting ur shots(won't happen alot if u're a good slinger). I'd say he's in a pretty good spot as of rn tbh.
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You might have read my post wrong. If a healthy survivor drops a pallet and the Slinger goes through the motions with my suggestions, all he would get is an injured survivor and an empty chamber, with no stun duration. If the survivor was unjured when they dropped the pallet, with my suggestions the Slinger could down them there yes.
I do agree with you as well with how long his actions and such take. Reducing them would go a long way and would then require furthur analysis to see if any changes would need to be made, or not made.
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The comparisons between Deathslinger and Huntress are becoming a little bit much for me... It's just watering the two characters down to compare them to each other.
I mean you might as well just start comparing Demogorgon and Freddy side by side because they can both teleport across the map so they're practically the same character, right? /s
Also, only an idiot or somebody that has 0 other options will ever run in a straight line toward a dropped pallet against a Huntress.
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The mindgames are strong with him. That is for sure. But if mindgames fail, there is still just the inevitability of the feats a killer is capable of and Huntress is able to down survivors much quicker then Slinger if mindgames are taken out of the equation for both of them.
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He is a killer dependent on himself. If you can hit the shots,you are good to go. If you can't,you can't do well. I personally can alot easier dodge huntresses hatchets than his gun and can loop huntresses more than slingers.
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Forgot to add,you can't base how good he is of tru3 or any other streamer that DOESN'T MAIN HIM. You need alot of hours on him to hit ur shots and catch survs properly with his power.
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Comparing Freddy and Demo is a whole discussion unto itself.
Sorry for the comparisons but what does Slinger bring to the table that Huntress doesn't already and already does it better then him? Their mindgames are different, but that is always subjective based on the players at hand, not the raw capabilities of the killers
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Can you point me to a streamer or youtuber that does main him and can demonstrate other things he's capable of that The Huntress doesn't do already? I know their are probably non-streamers/youtubers but there is no records there.
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How about the fact that he literally pulls the survivors to him, as opposed to giving them a speed boost while they're already quite far away?
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My point is, they're two completely different characters and comparing them is like comparing two other characters based off one feature of the character. Just like comparing Freddy and Demo because they both teleport, or Hag and Trapper because they both can place down traps. Whether or not the two characters are similar doesn't change the fact that they're nuanced enough to where you can't compare them as a 1-to-1, because they're simply different. Mister_xD already put it pretty well I think.
He can sneak up a lot on people, he can hit shots that Huntress couldn't, and vice versa, he can pull people into a less optimal position, he can apply deep wounds, he can send out a projectile without having to wind up... And these are all things that a person that doesn't even own Deathslinger can figure out. You can't just compare her to Deathslinger, because it's like comparing apples and oranges -- they're just two different things.
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Reeling in takes time, depending how close they are and if you are unable to reel in you either sacrifice the hit or take a major stun. And after either result you have to reload. Huntress can hit furthur away so a skilled huntress isn't hindered by a chain that only goes a set distance.
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So you don't own or haven't played as Deathslinger?
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Just increase camera speed during aim down sights
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To be fair, Tru3 is not that good of a DeathSlinger player. When you watch someone like OhTofu or Zubat play him, you can see how good of a killer he actually is. Once you throughly understand his power, he is insane in chases.
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Thank you, I will look into their Slinger gameplay.👍️
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Nope.
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Hatchets take much longer to travel (making them easier to dodge) and require you to go to a locker to replenish them, whereas the hook travels very quickly and can be reloaded on the spot. Hatchets also need to be charged, but the gun is always ready to fire.
Furthermore, if you say that a good Huntress isn't hindered by distance, then you also have to accept that a good Deathslinger won't put himself in a situation where he's unable to reel in the survivor.
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No problem. I hope you pick up on some stuff. Once you master his power he is so much fun to play. Good luck to you 👍
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First off, WHETHER THE DEATHSLINGER DOES OR DOES NOT pull a survivor to him, he injures them, unless he basic attacks WITHOUT hitting them. So basically you're saying "If the chain breaks, immediately allow him to shoot again once the stun ends, WHILE INJURING THEM". This is basically saying "Give the Deathslinger an extra benefit of an extra shot aside from the injured survivor losing a health state for NOT doing what he's supposed to with his weapon, aka reeling in the survivor to basic attack them". That's silly in itself. This would make him able to down people without pulling them to him regardless and he would literally be the same as Huntress, but more instant, closer ranged, and able to hit two people at once. They penalized his ability to not fully reel in survivors on PURPOSE. You're giving him BENEFITS to this via being able to simply reload, and pull survivors to him after reloading. They'd get less distance due to the reload being in with the stun. He'd likely be within range to shoot them, reload, pull them in, and then shoot them immediately after the stun because of how close they'd be to him. That's ridiculous and you have no idea about balance. Heck you're even giving him benefits to missing his shots completely.
Not only that you're giving him the POTENTIAL(no matter how small of a possibility it is) to give him a RANGED ONE SHOT. You'd literally be killing Myers with that idea. What'd be the point of having someone have to stalk to the potential of one shots if someone can do that BUT RANGED in their BASIC ABILITY INFINITELY?
I'll say it again, you have no idea about balance, and I don't think you should post any more "balance" ideas. I don't normally say things like that but this is one of the most ludicrous "suggestions" I've ever seen.
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Yup, the spear does travel faster, and yup, I can believe a good slinger will only spear a survivor when they know they can reel them in. But take a slinger and huntress who never miss their shots, huntress will have her survivor down quicker. Even if hachet wind up time and gun reload took the same time, the slinger has to reel in on both hits AND has his hit animation to go through after the first hit.
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True,there isn't. But there's quite a few godlike slingers out there. Jane Romero is an example ^^ (actual name of the player). Same as how there isn't really any godlike spirit streamers but nearly everyone knows Samantha lmao.
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s'all good, one person said tofu and zubat are good showcases so I'll look into them later
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I'd say tofu is quite good with him,he's defo worth to take a look at :F
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I wish I could absorb from your brain the kinds of spots you're refering to that Slinger is better then Huntress at, would make the discussion easier :P
And yeah I agree bit faster reload and add-on changes would go along way. I feel the chain charges are a bit pointless, its seems that a Slinger with a speared survivor is capable of reeling in or there are obstacles in the way that make it impossible to do so (I could be wrong though). Gotta be like what Orion said and be good enough that you are always in a position to reel in a survivor.
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Oh yes. Deathslinger is trash, but hes a special kind of trash, because sometimes hes really fun to play. He shares D tier with Clown and Bubba. Huntress does everything he does, but better.
He makes Legion look like an S tier killer.
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Yes, such stellar advice you offer. "You were terrible at something you tried for the first time so never do so again". Stupid Wright brothesr should have stopped trying to make airplanes when the first one failed, god what a terrible world we live in due to their persistence and unwillingness to give up. We should all strive to be like you and give up at the first sign of a mistake.
On the other hand my ideas seem to have really upset you and hurt your feelings. I'm sorry for not being aware of how sensitive you are, I didn't know some text on a webpage about a game would get you so upset.
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I did understand your post but it seems I wasn't clear enough with what I said. I used the example of an uninjured survivor simply to showcase a situation where a Deathslinger could easily shoot you while you're putting the pallet down and it is a very easy shot because you're locked in animation.
Currently, the most Deathslinger can get from shooting someone over a pallet is an Injure. However with your idea Deathslinger would be able to down an already injured survivor through a pallet by reloading and shooting them again while they are speared. I think this would be too oppressive and I think the fact that pallets are mostly reliable against Deathslinger once your injured is important for survivors not to feel they're completely powerless against him.
So yeah, I hope this clarifies what I meant : P
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S'all good 👍️
I wouldn't think it would be anymore oppressive then how Huntress can down injured survivors across a pallet. I think that would just put him on par with Huntress in that regard, then away from pallets their other differences would come into play (Slingers quicker shots when he's already loaded, Huntress having longer range, etc)
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(hitting the survivor instantly right before they get to the pallet, or if they made it, dragging them around the short side)
I dunno I still feel like Huntress comes out on top. Getting the hit before the pallet is the same cause after the Slinger reels them in he has his hit animation after the hit and has to reload, while the survivor now has the time to go through the pallet and drop it (which the Slinger can now break, but hit animation, reload, break pallet, that gives the survivor loads of time to get away from a 110% speed killer). Where as with huntress, after the hit, if the survivor drops the pallet she can just go up and break the pallet without being slowed with a hit animation or reloading (assuming she has more hachets) or just run through the not dropped pallet and keep up the chase.
as for loops at jungle gyms, if the survivors gets to the other side of a dropped pallet the Slinger can't down them, where as the Huntress can. I don't know if there are angles at gyms and T-L's the Slinger can make that the Huntress can't, but I agree that he can capatalize on them faster then she can though.
Even the Demo/Slinger comparison, i feel Shred might be better UP CLOSE, obviously at distance the spear is way quicker and easier to land the hit. But comparing a hit Shred to a spear-reel-hit, Shred only has the hit animation to play and a half second charge time to use again, and has the benefit of breaking pallets if a survivor drops it on them, granted Slinger would probably spear them from the same distance since its faster then the lunge.
hhmm, I'd like to see a match where a Slinger only uses his power once or twice and gets a 4K.
I know he has his subtle differences from Huntress (and the comparison between his power and the Demo Shred) but with the reeling in time, reload time, 110% move speed, and his inability to down injured survivors across a dropped pallet with his ranged attack, I feel he needs some buffs. Maybe just increase reload speed, reduced stun and all that would be enough, but if those aren't going to happen, then something else.
and why has no one mentioned my last sentence in my original post about Leather face and that possible head cosmetic I talked about? Am I just late to that party and its old news?
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Nothing is worse than hitting a great shot as the slinger, but oh whoops there's a tiny little object in the way so no down for you.
There's some cool situations where you can spear a survivor on one side of the pallet, then slowly drag yourself all the way over and get a down.
But then again, huntress would just down them instantly over the pallet. Huntress with add-ons can get to 7 hatchets in a row with reduced charge speed, 90 second exhaust, or built-in wallhacks. With iron maiden and 7 hatchets you can pretty much just lob them nonstop.
Deathslinger with his best add-ons gets....a slightly faster reload and a slightly better chain. I believe dead-harding his spear resets the dead hard still. I won't compare iri coin to iri heads since iri heads are just on a completely different level.
Huntress is just better in every way except that deathslinger is a cooler character to play, and has built-in BM with his laughs.
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Your suggestion was to completely top the balance of a killer around so hard that another killer was useless by design. If the Wright brothers had attempted using theif first airplane from the get go that didn't work, they would have died as well and never got to try again, so your comparison is rather silly. They were also already familiar with the topic of what they were going for, whereas you are not. I may have only worked on small projects that I never put out into the world, but I'm familiar enough with balance to tell that these ideas are so off the unbalanced that you likely will never get the idea of what would be balanced, with the suggestions you're bringing to the table. That's why I said I don't normally say this to people, in fact you may be the first.
You didn't hurt my feelings, I just was completely in disbelief at your idea and how you thought it would honestly be balanced in any way, shape, or form.
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"If the Wright brothers had attempted using theif first airplane from the get go that didn't work, they would have died as well and never got to try again, so your comparison is rather silly."
HA, no. Even their first succesful flight was at low speeds and was 3 ft off the ground. Yes potential for death was there, an injury at worst would be a million times more likely. They were hardy folks back then.
I can tell your feelings are hurt, I titled my discussion "a goof with deathslinger ideas" how commited do you think I am to becoming a game developer with a title like that? And if the ideas would be terrible in practice, I can live happily with that, is there harm in someone tossing out ideas for something they enjoy? (the answer is no, if the professionals at bvhr can tell its a bad idea then it will never happen, calm down and take a breath son, its not healthy to get worked up over nothing).
"I may have only worked on small projects that I never put out into the world, but I'm familiar enough with balance to tell that these ideas are so off the unbalanced that you likely will never get the idea of what would be balanced, with the suggestions you're bringing to the table."
So how do we know you are any better if you are too scared to show your work?
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